Definitive German steam locomotives book?

[robinb]

Hi chaps

 

Trying to educate myself on the complexities of German railways.

 

Is there a definitive book explaining the myriad classes of German steam?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

robinb

[Sir Madog]

A comprehensive overview of steam locomotive classes is available in

 

"Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven" by Horst J. Obermayer, first released in 1979 with reprints still available.

 

https://www.amazon.de/Taschenbuch-Deutsche-Dampflokomotiven-Horst-Obermayer/dp/3868523863

 

How good is your German?

Edited April 15, 2018 by Sir Madog

[Ian Morgan]

The German Railway Society produces a few publications on specific types, like the Class 18 Pacifics. Their signalling booklets are informative too (and in English).

 

http://grs-uk.org/publications/

[robinb]

A comprehensive overview of steam locomotive classes is available in

 

"Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven" by Horst J. Obermayer, first release´d in 1979 with reprints still available.

 

https://www.amazon.de/Taschenbuch-Deutsche-Dampflokomotiven-Horst-Obermayer/dp/3868523863

 

How good is your German?

 

That's a great tip, Ulrich, danke!

 

Wie gut ist mein Deutsch? Well, I seem to be able to read pictures in any language ;-)

Edited April 10, 2018 by robinb

[robinb]

The German Railway Society produces a few publications on specific types, like the Class 18 Pacifics. Their signalling booklets are informative too (and in English).

 

http://grs-uk.org/publications/

 

Thanks for the tip, Ian, much appreciated!

[peterfgf]

Pen and Sword recently published "The German Pacific Locomotive (Its Design and Development)" by David Maidments.  It well is written, has lots of photographs, and I enjoyed reading it.  It is £50 at the publisher and on Amazon's main site but Wordery (a part of Amazon) has it at £33 if you don't mind waiting a week for delivery.

 

If you are interested in the engineering side, then Eisenbahn Journal published electronically "Die Dampflokomotive" in four parts.  Very good illustration but you need a bit of technical German to read it.

 

Peterfgf 

[robinb]

Pen and Sword recently published "The German Pacific Locomotive (Its Design and Development)" by David Maidments.  It well is written, has lots of photographs, and I enjoyed reading it.  It is £50 at the publisher and on Amazon's main site but Wordery (a part of Amazon) has it at £33 if you don't mind waiting a week for delivery.

 

If you are interested in the engineering side, then Eisenbahn Journal published electronically "Die Dampflokomotive" in four parts.  Very good illustration but you need a bit of technical German to read it.

 

Peterfgf 

 

Thanks Peter - will investigate!

[michl080]

Robin,

 

the "Obermayer" is the bible that contains all classes.

If you have a deeper interest in a class, the "Die Baureihe xx" series from EK-Verlag https://www.ekshop.de/buecher/baureihen-bibliothek/Dampflokomotiven/ is a great source of information. Many of them are available from their shop and there are a lot more that can be bought used at ebay or at second hand book sellers.

 

Are you aware of anything comparable for the LMS or the BR? My interest is just opposite yours :-)

 

Michael

[EddieB]

The Taschenbuch is indeed a very useful little introduction to the various steam classes - rather in the style of the "Observer's" books in that it give an illustration, principal dimensions and a brief summary for each type covered.  Other volumes in the series by the same author (Obermeyer) covered diesel locomotives, electric locomotives, railcars and multiple units, narrow gauge, passenger carriages and goods wagons.  Similar works from other authors (with card covers rather than the plastic ones) covered German locomotive builders and steam locomotives of the local railways.  I'd say that all are worth trying to get hold of.

 

To return to the original question, I don't think there is a single volume - either in English or in German - that provides a comprehensive and detailed account of the development of the steam locomotive in Germany and how the various types fitted into the overall picture.  Here's a very broad picture - full of generalisations - that maybe gives some kind of idea of the scope.

 

As in most other countries, the German railway network began from point to point lines linking important towns that then grew and amalgamated into larger concerns - primarily organised by the various states that retained their separate identities until the formation of the Reichsbahn in the 1920s.  Within themselves, there was a degree of standardisation, and the German military expansion of WW1 was based upon the multiplication of many of the Prussian state standard classes.  Alongside these state railways were independent local railways (some of standard gauge, some of narrow gauge - some electrified from an early time) and connecting railways ("kreisbahnen").  Some of these were incorporated into the Reichsbahn, some staying independent for longer.  So the history of steam would need to consider the contributions made by all these various concerns.

 

After its formation, and between the wars, the Reichsbahn introduced the perhaps more familiar standard types.  They worked alongside locomotives inherited from the predecessor states.  Locomotive development also led to other prototype and experimental locomotives that were never put into large production.  It should also be remembered that the pre-war Reichsbahn also inherited electric locomotives, extended through further standard types, and was an early adopter of diesel locomotives too.

 

The second World War again saw a proliferation of standard steam classes, to be converted into the simplified war locomotives ("kriegslokomotiven") as the war progressed.  Occupation and control of the neighbouring countries saw their locomotives absorbed and numbered into the Reichsbahn system.

 

After the war, Germany was divided, most of the captured locomotives (that survived) were retained to their original territories (as well as some others in reparation - but nothing like the extent of the first World War) and the remaining locomotives split between the two Germanies' administrations.  New locomotive designs were formulated in both countries - different designs, but often with a kind of convergence between them.  On the Eastern side especially, there was a programme of rebuilding and updating the earlier standard designs and carrying out of experimental trials.

 

Unlike Britain, locomotive manufacturing was purely in the hands of private companies.  Although some had very close connections with the State companies (e.g. Krauss Maffei with the Bavarian State Railways), locomotive construction wasn't brought "in house".  The standard designs - both for the States and later, the Reichsbahn - could be built by several locomotive builders.

[robinb]

The Taschenbuch is indeed a very useful little introduction to the various steam classes - rather in the style of the "Observer's" books in that it give an illustration, principal dimensions and a brief summary for each type covered.  Other volumes in the series by the same author (Obermeyer) covered diesel locomotives, electric locomotives, railcars and multiple units, narrow gauge, passenger carriages and goods wagons.  Similar works from other authors (with card covers rather than the plastic ones) covered German locomotive builders and steam locomotives of the local railways.  I'd say that all are worth trying to get hold of.

 

To return to the original question, I don't think there is a single volume - either in English or in German - that provides a comprehensive and detailed account of the development of the steam locomotive in Germany and how the various types fitted into the overall picture.  Here's a very broad picture - full of generalisations - that maybe gives some kind of idea of the scope.

 

As in most other countries, the German railway network began from point to point lines linking important towns that then grew and amalgamated into larger concerns - primarily organised by the various states that retained their separate identities until the formation of the Reichsbahn in the 1920s.  Within themselves, there was a degree of standardisation, and the German military expansion of WW1 was based upon the multiplication of many of the Prussian state standard classes.  Alongside these state railways were independent local railways (some of standard gauge, some of narrow gauge - some electrified from an early time) and connecting railways ("kreisbahnen").  Some of these were incorporated into the Reichsbahn, some staying independent for longer.  So the history of steam would need to consider the contributions made by all these various concerns.

 

After its formation, and between the wars, the Reichsbahn introduced the perhaps more familiar standard types.  They worked alongside locomotives inherited from the predecessor states.  Locomotive development also led to other prototype and experimental locomotives that were never put into large production.  It should also be remembered that the pre-war Reichsbahn also inherited electric locomotives, extended through further standard types, and was an early adopter of diesel locomotives too.

 

The second World War again saw a proliferation of standard steam classes, to be converted into the simplified war locomotives ("kriegslokomotiven") as the war progressed.  Occupation and control of the neighbouring countries saw their locomotives absorbed and numbered into the Reichsbahn system.

 

After the war, Germany was divided, most of the captured locomotives (that survived) were retained to their original territories (as well as some others in reparation - but nothing like the extent of the first World War) and the remaining locomotives split between the two Germanies' administrations.  New locomotive designs were formulated in both countries - different designs, but often with a kind of convergence between them.  On the Eastern side especially, there was a programme of rebuilding and updating the earlier standard designs and carrying out of experimental trials.

 

Unlike Britain, locomotive manufacturing was purely in the hands of private companies.  Although some had very close connections with the State companies (e.g. Krauss Maffei with the Bavarian State Railways), locomotive construction wasn't brought "in house".  The standard designs - both for the States and later, the Reichsbahn - could be built by several locomotive builders.

 

Hi Eddie

 

That's a very useful overview - thank you!

 

I have in fact (thanks to Ulrich!) now acquired both the recommended Obermayer "Deutsche Dampflokotiven" and also the "Schmalspur" edition. What utterly charming little works they are and a total bargain at just €9.95 each!

 

Certainly combined with your summary they are a great start - thanks chaps!

 

Robin

[robinb]

Robin,

 

the "Obermayer" is the bible that contains all classes.

If you have a deeper interest in a class, the "Die Baureihe xx" series from EK-Verlag https://www.ekshop.de/buecher/baureihen-bibliothek/Dampflokomotiven/ is a great source of information. Many of them are available from their shop and there are a lot more that can be bought used at ebay or at second hand book sellers.

 

Are you aware of anything comparable for the LMS or the BR? My interest is just opposite yours :-)

 

Michael

 

Hi Michael

 

The LMS and BR locomotives are extensively written about and there are many books to choose from.

 

Arguably the godfathers of LMS research are the late David Jenkinson and Bob Essery.

 

A great start for you would be: LMS LOCOMOTIVES HISTORY Illustrated Steam Engines Vol.1 Essery Jenkinson Railway

 

This is quite easy to find on Ebay.

 

The outstanding British publisher Wild Swan do a number of books on particular classes and these are also highly recommended: http://titfield.co.uk/Wild-Swan/Locomotives.htm

 

As for BR classes Irwell Press (https://www.irwellpress.com/acatalog/Books.html) do some excellent class-specific books. As for a general overview I would recommend starting with the Wikipedia page...!

 

Hope those are useful!

 

Robin

[Klaus ojo]

The "Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven" by Horst J. Obermayer is a good overview saving space and money. For some more specific interest and if you like more and a bit larger drawings and pictures:

 

The former east German "transpress " at their time has published a series of books named "Dampflok-Archiv" edited by M. Weisbrod, H. Müller, W. Petznik, A.Wagner and many others. There are specific books for DRG, DR and DB locos and the Länderbahn Locos,  (east-)diesels and for wagons as well. The books have been reprinted by Alba  Verlag and Bechtermünz Verlag as books with hardcover. Sometimes you can get some for a good price (and sometimes not: wait for your chance!).  

 

You may have a look as well at "Länderbahn-Report" by Verlagsgruppe Bahn/Eisenbahn-Journal. They come with titles like "Bayern-Report" or "Sachsen-Report". What you get here is a bit of history and track plans as well. You can get a DVD with PDF of a compilation of these for reasonable price. Unfortunately the resolution is not very good for the drawings. But then you know what you need printed.

 

"Eisenbahn-Katalog" series by Gera Nova Verlag may be interesting for some photos although this is covering less prototypes than the latter.  If you get one cheap or if by chance this is matching your field of interest. As all the books are more or less based on the same couple of photos available

[rekoboy]

The Dampflok-Archiv series (four volumes!) by the former East German VEB Transpress-Verlag is the most thorough resource you can imagine on German steam locomotives. It was accompanied by similar volumes by the same publisher on electric and diesel locomotives of both the pre-war Reichsbahn and the post-war DB and DR. The books were published simultaneously in West Germany by the Alba-Verlag in Düsseldorf with the slightly amended title of Dampflokomotiven deutscher Eisenbahnen - Dampflokarchiv. So one might try on Amazon, for example, to find the book by either publisher - they are, apart from the covers, identical. I can recommend them wholeheartedly!

Edited May 23, 2021 by rekoboy
Omission

[dick rowland]

'Are you aware of anything comparable for the LMS or the BR? My interest is just opposite yours :-)

 

Michael

 

 

Can anybody recommend a similar general guide for UK steam locomotives, that might be helpful to other European enthousiasts?

[Nick Holliday]

 

13 hours ago, dick rowland said:

'Are you aware of anything comparable for the LMS or the BR? My interest is just opposite yours :-)

 

Michael

 

Can anybody recommend a similar general guide for UK steam locomotives, that might be helpful to other European enthusiasts?

The topic is rather wide to be encapsulated in a single volume. One book I find useful is Locomotives of British Railways by Casserley & Asher, published in 1965 but reprinted in the eighties and fairly widely available on the second-hand market, sometimes for only £4.00, so don't pay the £100 that someone is asking! It contains photos of every class of steam locomotive that was taken into BR ownership, and some brief notes about them as well, mainly numbering but no dimensions or other details .  Not quite up to the standard of the German series, and some of the photos are a bit hit and miss, but a good starter, as many of the glossier books on BR locos only consider a selection, usually of the more glamourous types. Be wary, though, as the C&A book was also available in four separate volumes, for each of the Grouping companies.  There was also another series of books by the same authors, which covered Locomotives at Grouping, also in four volumes, which covered all the classes, widening the scope to include pre-grouping classes which didn't make it to 1948.

[EddieB]

For an "all in one" volume covering all forms of German motive power, how about this title, currently being offered at a 50% price reduction: https://www.ekshop.de/buecher/buecher/Deutschlands-Lokomotiven-und-Triebwagen.html

 

(Check out other offers on the site).

 

A trusted author and publishing house, will take orders and send to the UK.

[Bill Jamieson]

On 23/05/2021 at 10:12, Klaus ojo said:

The former east German "transpress " at their time has published a series of books named "Dampflok-Archiv" edited by M. Weisbrod, H. Müller, W. Petznik, A.Wagner and many others.

A bit off topic , but the H. Müller mentioned above will be Hans Müller, who was employed at the DR's VES/M research and development facility in Halle and was also a very competent photographer. His 1975 book 'Schiene, Dampf und Kamera' was a rarity from Transpress - an imaginatively produced railway pictorial album, which was marketed in West Germany by Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart. A revamped version in landscape format was published by EK Verlag in 2018 (along similar lines to the 2012 reworking of Colin Gifford's 'Each a Glimpse', with many photographs given more space, a few deleted and some new material introduced). This was followed last year by 'Dampfbetrieb der DR - ein Streifzug von Nord nach Süd', which I bought as a  Christmas present to myself! I was so impressed by the quality, both of the photographs and printing, that I immediately ordered 'Schiene, Dampf und Kamera' (despite having the original edition) and this arrived today. It is certainly a significant improvement on the original version (which, to be fair, was OK for its time) and I would thoroughly recommend both books, which are available for about  £31/£35  from Amazon. A third in the series, concentrating on DR narrow-gauge lines, is planned for later this year.

Bill

https://www.eisenbahn-kurier.de/buecher/5160-schiene-dampf-kamera

https://www.eisenbahn-kurier.de/buecher/6069-dampfbetrieb-der-dr

https://bahnbuch.de/dampfbetrieb-der-dr-band-2-schmalspurbahnen

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Bill Jamieson
Links added

[Bill Jamieson]

The Hans Müller narrow-gauge album is now available from Amazon UK at just over £36 with free postage. My copy arrived a couple of days ago and overall I'm very impressed. It covers just about all the narrow gauge lines that were still extant in the mid 1960s, so the lines which survive today  are not necessarily well covered - the sections on the Weisseritztalbahn, Zittau system and Harzquerbahn are quite brief and I would have to say that the shots in the latter  section are a bit lacklustre. However this is compensated by some absolute belters of shots elsewhere - not least the frontispiece, a very atmospheric winter shot which features the obliquely lit side of the shed at Jöhstadt with six feet long icicles hanging from the guttering and just the front end of a Meyer visible . The photographer also had a good eye for composing a loco portrait (in my opinion) and there are a number of such shots of rarities which didn't survive into the computer numbering era.

Bill

[Artless Bodger]

On 11/04/2018 at 17:28, peterfgf said:

Pen and Sword recently published "The German Pacific Locomotive (Its Design and Development)" by David Maidments.  It well is written, has lots of photographs, and I enjoyed reading it.  It is £50 at the publisher and on Amazon's main site but Wordery (a part of Amazon) has it at £33 if you don't mind waiting a week for delivery.

Currently in the Postscript Books catalogue at £22.50.

[DenysW]

On 10/04/2018 at 00:01, Sir Madog said:

A comprehensive overview of steam locomotive classes is available in

 

"Taschenbuch Deutsche Dampflokomotiven" by Horst J. Obermayer, first released in 1979 with reprints still available.

 

https://www.amazon.de/Taschenbuch-Deutsche-Dampflokomotiven-Horst-Obermayer/dp/3868523863

 

Just acquired a copy - a lovely little pocket book that is highly likely to improve my steam-German from nil to above-nil.

 

The only disappointment was that it starts with the classes that made it through to having post WW1 nationalised/privatised classifications. Is there also a German equivalent of E.L. Ahron's book of British Steam Locomotives 1825-1925? 

On 11/04/2018 at 17:28, peterfgf said:

Pen and Sword recently published "The German Pacific Locomotive (Its Design and Development)" by David Maidments.  It well is written, has lots of photographs, and I enjoyed reading it. 

Also a Good Read. Slightly disappointed in that it wasn't more comparative, and left some questions unanswered. How did Maffei product and 18 tonnes/axle pacific, for instance, without losing valuable traction weight to the non-driving wheels? (Can of worms) What did the pre-ww1 locomotives cost?

[Les1952]

On 11/04/2018 at 17:28, peterfgf said:

Pen and Sword recently published "The German Pacific Locomotive (Its Design and Development)" by David Maidments.  It well is written, has lots of photographs, and I enjoyed reading it.  It is £50 at the publisher and on Amazon's main site but Wordery (a part of Amazon) has it at £33 if you don't mind waiting a week for delivery.

 

If you are interested in the engineering side, then Eisenbahn Journal published electronically "Die Dampflokomotive" in four parts.  Very good illustration but you need a bit of technical German to read it.

 

Peterfgf 

 

The Pacifics book I can highly recommend- a good few days of solid reading.

 

Les