GNR Large Boilered C1 in 4mm

[k22009]

Thanks for the info regarding the GA, if i'd thought about it a few months back i'd have probably bought it but for know i've used the Isinglass drawing.

 

I made up the firebox former, with a temporary stiffener between back and front ( it may have to come out if it fouls the motor) i also added some brass square bar to the leading lower edges which will need to be filed to form the transition curves.

 

 

i decided to try to form the boiler and firebox in one piece, i marked out the band positions and rolled it up on the GW rolling bars. Soldered the seam up and checked the dimensions, all good. the fireboxsection was then unrolled by hand to roughly form the correct shape.

 

 

The smokebox was straightforward, again rolled and seam soldered, i cut two circular formers the outer one is slightly proud and test fit over the boiler barrel. Perfect a nice tight fit and the lengths checked out spot on with the drawing.

 

 

I then wrestled the former into the firebox and soldered it all up. I will add some weight to the smokebox and also into the boiler/firebox, but that can wait until later once i've got the chassis nearer finished i can then judge the weight distribution better. I've also pilot drilled the positions for the washout plugs along the top and the mudhole doors along the lower edges.

 

 

The smokebox is just a push fit on at this stage, i'll attach it permanently later.

 

Cab next.

 

Dave 

 

 

[k22009]

I decided to form the cab sides and roof from one piece, the front was a little tricky cutting out the windows, i need some small files here really.

 

 

Formed with the aid of some 3/16 bar, the cab front sits proud slightly from the sides.

 

 

Beading added from 0.5mm wire.

 

 

I'll get the splashers cut and formed next, these position everything on the footplate, as the firebox butts up to the rear of them. I'll also add the washout plugs boiler bands that will only leave the detailing parts handrail knobs, chimney, dome, anti carboniser and safety valves to add to it then .

 

Dave

[k22009]

Splashers and tops cut out of 0.25mm brass, i cut 2 lots of tops as these are set proud of the splasher sides and needed to be double thickness. I hadn't allowed for this on my drawing so i had to cut the sides down o.5mm to compensate.

 

 

I laminated the tops and rolled them around a broom handle to get them somewhere close to the profile before soldering up, getting my fingers a tad warm in the process. But they came out fine with a prominent shoulder on the tops, they just need a little tlc with the file..

 

 

I then cut out the rear frame extensions and soldered these to the footplate ensuring the return section missed the drive wheels as they are very close here.

 

 

Next up i cut out the front footplate valences and buffer beam which were duly fixed in place after rivetting and drilling for the buffers and coupling hook.

 

 

 

Washout plugs added and mudhole covers. For the mudholes I used some 2mm o/d tube cut to 1mm thick slivers crushed slightly to make them slightly oval then soldered onto the firebox and then filed almost flush in situ. Not brilliant but i think they'll be ok. Boiler bands from 5 thou copper sheet cut into 0.75mm strips. At the end of the session i trial fitted everything made up so far together.

 

 

Starting to get there.

 

Back to the chassis next, brakes , bogie and trailing wheels.

 

Dave

[k22009]

I added brake hanger wires to the chassis and painted it over the last 2 days so that i could get the wheels on. The brakes between the drivers will only fit once the wheels are in situ as its just too tight.

 

High level Roadrunner gearbox made up. 

 

 

I've used a Mabuchi motor and just tack soldered it onto the gearbox as the mounting screws are too big and foul the gearbox side frames. The centres of the drivers is 27.8mm. it should be 27.33 but the rims would foul, there's just about a fag paper clearance between them. I made up coupling rods from some universal ones i had. The bogie was just a spare etch i had from the Claughton i recently built and overlaid with some spare Comet overlays. For the trailing wheels i decided to use a trailing truck as it's hidden by the outer frames, so i cut the frames away locally to give a little sideways clearance. Tested and all runs smoothly, however with the body on the boiler was catching the top of the wheel rims so i marked the underside with a sharpie pen and shaved a little off where it was marked. All good.

 

 

 

The rear of the frames need packing up a little under the cab to get the footplate to sit horizontally.

 

I'll add the pickups next and get the chassis running, i'll also add a little weight to the boiler over the drive wheels.

 

Dave 

[Chas Levin]

On 26/09/2020 at 21:10, k22009 said:

Splashers and tops cut out of 0.25mm brass, i cut 2 lots of tops as these are set proud of the splasher sides and needed to be double thickness. I hadn't allowed for this on my drawing so i had to cut the sides down o.5mm to compensate.

 

 

I laminated the tops and rolled them around a broom handle to get them somewhere close to the profile before soldering up, getting my fingers a tad warm in the process. But they came out fine with a prominent shoulder on the tops, they just need a little tlc with the file..

 

 

I then cut out the rear frame extensions and soldered these to the footplate ensuring the return section missed the drive wheels as they are very close here.

 

 

Next up i cut out the front footplate valences and buffer beam which were duly fixed in place after rivetting and drilling for the buffers and coupling hook.

 

 

 

Washout plugs added and mudhole covers. For the mudholes I used some 2mm o/d tube cut to 1mm thick slivers crushed slightly to make them slightly oval then soldered onto the firebox and then filed almost flush in situ. Not brilliant but i think they'll be ok. Boiler bands from 5 thou copper sheet cut into 0.75mm strips. At the end of the session i trial fitted everything made up so far together.

 

 

Starting to get there.

 

Back to the chassis next, brakes , bogie and trailing wheels.

 

Dave

That looks mighty fine! 

[Daddyman]

Nice etched oval mudhole covers here (round ones too). (Note that he calls them washout plugs.)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silver-Tay-Models-00-4mm-scale-loco-detailing-accessories/283734323476?hash=item420fe23114:g:8rMAAOSwSwdeE1vZ&var=585142366565

 

Seems only to trade on ebay. His lamp irons are very fine too.  

[k22009]

44 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Nice etched oval mudhole covers here (round ones too). (Note that he calls them washout plugs.)

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silver-Tay-Models-00-4mm-scale-loco-detailing-accessories/283734323476?hash=item420fe23114:g:8rMAAOSwSwdeE1vZ&var=585142366565

 

Seems only to trade on ebay. His lamp irons are very fine too.  

 

Perfect, i'll hot foot it over to Ebay. Thanks very much.

[Daddyman]

2 hours ago, k22009 said:

 

Perfect, i'll hot foot it over to Ebay. Thanks very much.

Glad to be of help. 

[Daddyman]

I also wonder if these might be of help:

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/images/Accessories/steam_chest.JPG

 

I checked my supply this morning and they are 7mm in diameter. 

[k22009]

They certainly look better than my efforts and would be the correct dimensions too as the cylinders are 20" dia.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if we had an online catalogue with all these misc. parts logged in one searchable location. Dream on.

[Daddyman]

Just now, k22009 said:

They certainly look better than my efforts and would be the correct dimensions too as the cylinders are 20" dia.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if we had an online catalogue with all these misc. parts logged in one searchable location. Dream on.

It certainly would be nice. I suppose we just have to create our own: I have a Word document "Useful modelling tips" into which I cut and paste people's posts from various forums, or links to tutorials, product recommendations, etc.  

 

You're making a heck of a good job of the loco, but the steam chest covers let the side down ever so slightly. 

 

David. 

[k22009]

I've ordered an etch of the steam chest covers from Brassmasters along with a few other bits that may be useful for other projects.

 

In the meantime i've added handrail pillars to the boiler, the axle boxes on the the trailing wheel outer frames. I've also sorted out the pickups and brake gear. As i've got the pickups on the top of the frames next to the splashers it leaves a little more room in the frames to get the 2 brake cylinders and brake gear (2 cylinders positioned between the rear bogie wheels and front drivers and the rear cylinder is under the cab this actuates the brakes to the trailing wheel set). I'll add a few photos later once the sand boxes and pipes are done.

 

 

Dave

[k22009]

Was at a loose end last night for a couple of hours, it has been raining here for 36 hours non stop so i wasn't about to venture out to the shed to do some more work so i decided to draw up the tender. I was thinking of buying a kit from John at London road but as things have gone ok so far i'll try the scratch build route first.

 

 

 

 

Dave

Edited October 4, 2020 by k22009

[Daddyman]

5 hours ago, k22009 said:

Was at a loose end last night for a couple of hours, it has been raining here for 36 hours non stop so i wasn't about to venture out to the shed to do some more work so i decided to draw up the tender. I was thinking of buying a kit from John at London road but as things have gone ok so far i'll try the scratch build route first.

 

 

 

 

Dave

Shouldn't the corners of the flare be curved? And the tender body too, for that matter? Or is that a different tender type?  

[davelester]

1 minute ago, Daddyman said:

Shouldn't the corners of the flare be curved? And the tender body too, for that matter? Or is that a different tender type?  

Yes.

 

All Ivatt tenders have a flare on the top plus curved ends to the tank (and thus 3D curved flaring).

 

Most of the tenders attached to the C1s will be self-levelling with 6' + 7' wheelbase -- as drawn.

 

A detail to watch for is the beading (2" x 5/8" elliptical), which is on both sides of the front part of the sheeting -- just as it is on both sides of the cab sheeting. And some tenders had matching cut-out handholds.

[k22009]

Thanks for spotting that i'd forgot to radius the tank ends on plan though although i've allowed for them in the layout of parts hence the fingers at the corners which will need filling with solder, the vertical lines on the developement are the centre point for starting the curves.

 

Cheers guys

 

Dave

Edited October 4, 2020 by k22009

[k22009]

Etches arrived from Silver Tay. There are 8 mudhole doors on the sheet all were cut out, those that are on the edge of the firebox were rolled around a needle file handle before attaching. I'm pleased looks better than my home brewed parts.

 

 

I've a small pile of detailing parts to make up so i thought i'd start with the basic backhead, cab floor and steps. The backhead will have pipes, fire door, gauges etc added once i've digested an enlarged print of the Isinglass drawing.

 

 

Dave

[davelester]

14 hours ago, k22009 said:

I've a small pile of detailing parts to make up so i thought i'd start with the basic backhead, cab floor and steps. The backhead will have pipes, fire door, gauges etc added once i've digested an enlarged print of the Isinglass drawing.

 

Perhaps this will help....

 

... note carefully that it is a GA, and thus represents an "as intended to be built" condition. I think the water-level gauges, at least, will have been updated in the 1920s.

Atlantic_Backhead.pdf

[Daddyman]

Silver Tay deliver very fast, don't they? - as well as making beautiful etches. 

 

Is the backhead similar at all to another loco available RTR - the A3 or A4, for example, to save you some trouble? I may have a spare - my days of making big locos, and especially big plastic locos, are over. 

 

[davelester]

38 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Is the backhead similar at all to another loco available RTR - the A3 or A4, for example, to save you some trouble? 

 

Not really.

 

Gresley wide firebox boilers were straight-sided (at an angle!) -- and with a diameter of 6'5" where the firebox joins the coned section of the boiler.

 

The Ivatt boiler is 5'6" in diameter, and the firebox has curved sides

Edited October 6, 2020 by davelester

[k22009]

32 minutes ago, davelester said:

 

Perhaps this will help....

 

... note carefully that it is a GA, and thus represents an "as intended to be built" condition. I think the water-level gauges, at least, will have been updated in the 1920s.

Atlantic_Backhead.pdf 3.8 MB · 1 download

 

 

Thanks Dave for that, it's a massive help. I have not found any pictures at all to go on, only photos of the Bachmann model which i can't rely on really.

 

28 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Silver Tay deliver very fast, don't they? - as well as making beautiful etches. 

 

Is the backhead similar at all to another loco available RTR - the A3 or A4, for example, to save you some trouble? I may have a spare - my days of making big locos, and especially big plastic locos, are over. 

 

 

The person who does the etches only lives down the road from me, Perth is our closest town. I'd wondered where the name Silver Tay came into it.

Etches are great just what i needed. 

Thanks for the offer of the backhead i have one in an A4 conversion kit in the to do pile that i just checked out. It is a bit bigger and with certainly more pipework than required but i could reduce it and remove the parts not reqd. I can fall back to that if this doesn't work out. I'll see how it goes.

 

 

Dave

[Daddyman]

10 minutes ago, davelester said:

 

Not really.

 

Gresley wide firebox boilers were straight-sided (at an angle!) -- and with a diameter of 6'5" where the firebox joins the coned section of the boiler.

 

The Ivatt boiler is 5'6" in diameter, and the firebox has curved sides

Thanks for that. I wonder if just the "heart" of an RTR one can be used, with the surroundings reshaped. It would depend on how close the detail is to the edge on the plastic one (I don't have one to hand). 

[Daddyman]

1 minute ago, k22009 said:

Thanks for the offer of the backhead i have one in an A4 conversion kit in the to do pile that i just checked out. It is a bit bigger and with certainly more pipework than required but i could reduce it and remove the parts not reqd. I can fall back to that if this doesn't work out. I'll see how it goes.

Great minds... 

 

Why the southern loco when you have so many lovely indigenous locos up there? 

[k22009]

50 minutes ago, Daddyman said:

Great minds... 

 

Why the southern loco when you have so many lovely indigenous locos up there? 

 

I prefer the LMS and Midland locos normally but i just enjoy building anything tbh. We live here because i got fed up driving up the M6 to head to the hills. I think the C1 Atlantic has lovely lines and with no real kit alternative apart from Ace and DJH i thought i'd have a bash. I'd initially thought of making drawings for an etched run but not having dabbled my feet in those waters before i'm very cautious. So a one off it probably will be, although the drawings are available if anyone wants them (for a small donation to a good cause like BHF or Cancer research UK).

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by k22009

[k22009]

Does anyone have any info or a photo of the smokebox door stop that seemed to be on some GNR/LNER locos?

 

From what i can deduce it appears to be a fairly plain T shaped casting with 2 bolts securing it to the smokebox front one either side.

 

Dave 

Edited October 8, 2020 by k22009