Tornado fails on ECML

[Christopher125]

I have a bookmark to that site and it can be quite interesting watching it fluctuate during the day, As you say most wind or solar doesnt actually appear on the list as it is unmetered but even then we still rely on coal in winter to make up the shortfall, and thats before we get onto the amount of electricity we import from Europe and the amount of gas we import from Russia, well pretty much everywhere.

I used to use Gridwatch but I've found Drax's 'electrical insights' far better - the 'explore the data' link at the bottom takes you to a very useful interactive graph which also shows price and carbon intensity.

[Gareth Collier]

Tornado was still sitting outside the shed on the Nene Valley today.

[BoD]

Received a mail shot today saying tours are due to be resumed in July.

[Nimbus]

Received a mail shot today saying tours are due to be resumed in July.

Unless a protected bird species has decided to nest in one of the cylinders, surprisingly left open without any blanking to keep the weather out?

 

The NIm.

[Bon Accord]

Unless a protected bird species has decided to nest in one of the cylinders, surprisingly left open without any blanking to keep the weather out?

 

The NIm.

 

That thought had crossed my mind, no cover on the chimney either.

[newbryford]

The issue is a mechanical failure, which occurred on a newly-built locomotive 

 

Not quite new - Tornado's first test runs were in late 2008 with first main line runs in early 2009.

 

Cheers,

Mick

[PatB]

Not quite new - Tornado's first test runs were in late 2008 with first main line runs in early 2009.

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

Given the limited mileage covered, though, by steam loco standards she'll be barely run-in I would have thought.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Given the limited mileage covered, though, by steam loco standards she'll be barely run-in I would have thought.

 The 'running in' was accomplished in regular steam operation over the first few hundred miles as the bearings settled after fitting. Commonly achieved on express locomotives by giving them a couple of slow turns out and home from the running shed adjcaent the main works, before they went into regular fast service. Modern precision machining standards are such that I doubt it even takes that distance now.

 

It is a very simple machine, all said and done. When lubrication ceases, the large forces involved will quicklyheat and then consequently mangle the affected mechanism. It doesn't take very much reading about life for the fitting teams in the running sheds to discover that every class of locomotive experienced this type of failure in service. A little plug of 'cotton waste' not even costing a penny in a lubricant line a very frequent cause. What's more, crews would continue with a locomotive if it could still operate less an engine. There's a well known recording by Peter Handford of the crew of an LMR 0-6-0, who are limping home on one cylinder on 'Trains in Trouble'. Contains some clearly audible authentic footplatese, refering to the need for "a new fookin engine".

[PatB]

I was using "run-in" in a metaphorical rather than a literal sense here. Compared to engines in everyday service prior to 1968 Tornado will have had a very pampered ten years or so.

 

As for limping a single cylinder loco home, I hope it didn't stop on dead centre at any point. The railroad Esperanto would have flowed even more freely .

[AndyID]

Modern precision machining standards are such that I doubt it even takes that distance now.

 

Colour me cynical, but I have a suspicion that might be something to do with the problem. When tolerances are tight differential expansion can be a right burglar.

[Hroth]

Tornado was still sitting outside the shed on the Nene Valley today.

A nice scene.  It could be entirely replicated using Hornby models!

(Apart from, I think, the sole Heljan behind the WC/BoBs chimney....)

[Titan]

Colour me cynical, but I have a suspicion that might be something to do with the problem. When tolerances are tight differential expansion can be a right burglar.

Not quite sure you have got that right, sounds like you are confusing tolerance with clearance. The tighter the tolerance, the more predictable and accurate the clearance, meaning with tight tolerances on the correct clearance, differential expansion will be much less of a problem, as you can guarantee the right clearance to allow for it.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Titan

[jjb1970]

In technological terms the steam locomotive is as crude as it gets (no offence to any steam fans, I like them myself).

[Titan]

In technological terms the steam locomotive is as crude as it gets (no offence to any steam fans, I like them myself).

That's a bit of a sweeping genaralisation, there is a whole world of technological advancement in Tornado compared to Trevithicks Penydarren locomotive...

[jjb1970]

That's a bit of a sweeping genaralisation, there is a whole world of technological advancement in Tornado compared to Trevithicks Penydarren locomotive...

I'd hope there would be, doesn't alter the fact its an obsolete, crude and woefully inefficient technology.

[rodent279]

In technological terms the steam locomotive is as crude as it gets (no offence to any steam fans, I like them myself).

I wouldn't say crude-simple is perhaps more accurate. Woefully inefficient yes, outdated yes, but not crude. There's a lot of clever engineering science involved in boiling water and using the vapour to drive mechanical systems.

[rab]

I wouldn't say crude-simple is perhaps more accurate. Woefully inefficient yes, outdated yes, but not crude. There's a lot of clever engineering science involved in boiling water and using the vapour to drive mechanical systems.

A lot of the inefficiency comes from having to convert linear reciprocating motion into rotary motion.

For that reason if there was a future in steam, the turbine was probably the way forward

Edited May 19, 2018 by rab

[rodent279]

A lot of the inefficiency comes from having to convert linear reciprocating motion into rotary motion.

For that reason if there was a future in steam, the turbine was probably the way forward

Which effectively it is, or was: turbine-electric, with transmission via overhead lines!

[The Stationmaster]

I think this thread could be very easily summed up -

 

1. We know what broke,

2. We have been told what is understood to have been the immediate cause of what resulted in that breakage, but

3. We don't know yet the circumstances behind the apparent failure or whatever which led to that immediate cause

 

Everything else is surmise and speculation, or has rambled off topic.

[jjb1970]

A lot of the inefficiency comes from having to convert linear reciprocating motion into rotary motion.

For that reason if there was a future in steam, the turbine was probably the way forward

Diesel engines also have to convert reciprocating motion into rotary motion yet can achieve an efficiency of over 50%.The problem with steam efficiency is inherent to the concept of boiling water into steam and then expanding it. Particularly if you don't have a condenser and operate at low superheated and pressure like in a steam locomotive thermodynamic efficiency will always be dire. Power plant steam systems are modelled on the Rankine cycle and operate at very high pressure and superheated and utilise reheating and very high vacuum condensers and their efficiency is still well behind diesel engines. And the diesel engine has an extremely under rated attribute, it retains good efficiency even at quite high turn down ratios.

[LMS2968]

I see we're blundering around in uncharted territory again...

[jjb1970]

I see we're blundering around in uncharted territory again...

Steam isn't uncharted, we have mollier charts for that!

Edited May 19, 2018 by jjb1970

[MarkC]

Here we are

 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html

[62613]

Here we are

 

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mollier-diagram-water-d_308.html

Blimey! That takes me back!

[LMS2968]

Steam isn't uncharted, we have mollier charts for that!

The reference to uncharted territory referred back to the thread title.