Models & Leisure white metal loco kits. (Premier Kits)

[brian777999]

I have been given the option of buying some Model & Leisure white metal loco kits.  Is anybody familiar with them as I have not heard the name before ? Are they reasonable or rubbish ?

[N15class]

They weren't Bad for the day. I think most were taken over by Alan Gibson. He did some updating I do believe.

I've made a few. They were produced by Ron Cadman. Etched were had drawn he was a draftsman by profession. I remember seeing the art work on his board when we went visiting my uncle.

[Horsetan]

Quite sought after now, especially the Dean Single and Churchward's Great Bear Pacific.

 

I have a Hawksworth County kit in the shed. It will need work, but the principal castings seem alright, even if the chassis etch is a bit old hat by today's standards, having no provision for P4.

[Steamport Southport]

Here's a built one just to give you an idea of their quality. 

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/76843/M_L_KB013_LN_LNWR_5_6_tank_2_4_2_in_LNWR_blackberry_black_built_from_M_L_Premier_kit_Pre_ow/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[gwrrob]

Quite sought after now, especially the Dean Single and Churchward's Great Bear Pacific.

I have a Hawksworth County kit in the shed. It will need work, but the principal castings seem alright, even if the chassis etch is a bit old hat by today's standards, having no provision for P4.

Yes, the Great Bear kit is really rather sought after if the Ebay prices are any guide.

[Horsetan]

Yes, the Great Bear kit is really rather sought after if the Ebay prices are any guide.

 

£200+ usually....if you're lucky.

[stevejjjexcov]

Good kits for their day I built several. Ron did twin kits I think one was GWR Buffalo and 517. They were sold principally in Barry Jones shop in Sewell Highway Coventry. With a little after market bits they should still give good results.

 

Steve

[Weaselfish]

I have been given the option of buying some Model & Leisure white metal loco kits.  Is anybody familiar with them as I have not heard the name before ? Are they reasonable or rubbish ?

There was quite a lot of GWR stuff. The County, Dean Single and Great Bear are mentioned above. There was also a Grange, a Star (designed to fit the original Airfix tender-drive Castle chassis) and 850 pannier and saddle tanks. I've got the latter 4 and given the age of the kits they still look ok.The 850s are particularly good and have etched chassis which still run very nicely.  At the risk of sounding nosey, which ones have you been offered?

[t-b-g]

They are not bad for their age but unless you want to do major surgery to clearances, the ones I have been involved with (LNWR types) can be a real pig for EM or P4.

 

It was Pete Waterman's first venture into model railway kit manufacturing and he has written about how they were the first to include things like etched brake gear.

Edited April 27, 2018 by t-b-g

[Sandhole]

Beware the Dean

Single!!

Not because it is a bad kit, it can be made into a lovely model, but because, if you get the chassis to work, it won't pull anything!!

I, of course, stand to be proven wrong!!

The best thing is to motorise the tender.

Coachbogie, my old friend Mike, used a Bachmann peak powerbogie I think. 

Don't half pull well!!!

Everything that has been said on the thread is true.

Unless the price is daft, worth buying.

Enjoy,

         Chris.

 

PS. Just occurred to me, you might be able to use the Dean body on a Triang/ Hornby Dean Single or Caley Single chassis.

Good body on a workable chassis that will pull stuff.

                       Chris.

[brian777999]

There was quite a lot of GWR stuff. The County, Dean Single and Great Bear are mentioned above. There was also a Grange, a Star (designed to fit the original Airfix tender-drive Castle chassis) and 850 pannier and saddle tanks. I've got the latter 4 and given the age of the kits they still look ok.The 850s are particularly good and have etched chassis which still run very nicely.  At the risk of sounding nosey, which ones have you been offered?

 

I am interested in the GWR 650 and 833. He does have others but I am not sure which. I just want some pregrouping GWR tank locos. Bachmann and Hornby are unlikely to ever make such a thing.

[Penlan]

I have most all of his LNWR engines, a little bit of work to go EM, but I'm happy with them, though there is probably some 'after market' additions (thanks stevejjjexcov for that term  ) on my loco, but they are OK.
They have their place, and it's NOT the bin.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Penlan

[Steamport Southport]

It's Cornwall that I want.

 

Another one that goes for silly prices and isn't on the Gibson list of potential reissues.

 

 

 

Jason

[Sandhole]

I am interested in the GWR 650 and 833. He does have others but I am not sure which. I just want some pregrouping GWR tank locos. Bachmann and Hornby are unlikely to ever make such a thing.

You mean 633 and 850 tanks, don't you?

[brian777999]

You mean 633 and 850 tanks, don't you?

 

Yes....sorry, my mistake. Late at night error and still groggy from anesthetic !

[Darwinian]

There was a GWR County tank too. Straight frame version at least. I have one I built many years ago. It needs a better drive train than the one I fitted then.

[Steamport Southport]

Some of them are currently available from Alan Gibson. You can register an interest in them, and some are currently in stock.

 

No idea of prices though. 

 

GWR ‘517’ Class 0-4-2 tank locomotive

GWR ‘633’ Class 0-6-0 tank locomotive

GWR ‘850’ Class 0-6-0 Pannier tank locomotive
GWR ‘850’ Class 0-6-0 saddle tank locomotive
GWR ‘Buffalo’ Class 1076 0-6-0 Pannier tank locomotive
GWR ‘Buffalo’ Class 1076 0-6-0 Saddle tank locomotive
GWR ‘County Tank’ Class 4-4-2 tank locomotive
GWR No.36 4-6-0 locomotive (Outside frames)
GWR No.4600 4-4-2 tank locomotive

 

LNWR/LMS 0-4-2 ‘Dock’ tank locomotive

LNWR/LMS 0-6-2 ‘Coal Tank’ locomotive

LNWR/LMS 5'6” 2-4-2 tank locomotive

 

I think they are all ex M&L kits.

 

 

Jason

[Horsetan]

Some of them are currently available from Alan Gibson. You can register an interest in them, and some are currently in stock.

 

No idea of prices though. 

 

GWR ‘517’ Class 0-4-2 tank locomotive

GWR ‘633’ Class 0-6-0 tank locomotive

GWR ‘850’ Class 0-6-0 Pannier tank locomotive

GWR ‘850’ Class 0-6-0 saddle tank locomotive

GWR ‘Buffalo’ Class 1076 0-6-0 Pannier tank locomotive

GWR ‘Buffalo’ Class 1076 0-6-0 Saddle tank locomotive

GWR ‘County Tank’ Class 4-4-2 tank locomotive

GWR No.36 4-6-0 locomotive (Outside frames)

GWR No.4600 4-4-2 tank locomotive

 

LNWR/LMS 0-4-2 ‘Dock’ tank locomotive

LNWR/LMS 0-6-2 ‘Coal Tank’ locomotive

LNWR/LMS 5'6” 2-4-2 tank locomotive

 

I think they are all ex M&L kits.

Minimum batch size is 12, so it's going to be a good long wait in some cases.

 

The other GW kits mostly came to the end of their mould lives, so there was no chance of them ever being resurrected - all withdrawn when Alan was still in control; in any case, superkit etching techniques have largely superseded whitemetal.

[Barclay]

I built the LNWR dock tank and it went together very well. The chassis was a fold up etch, great for 00, less so for the wider gauges, I just used lots of spacing washers in EM, although these days I would separate the frames, use new spacers, and compensate, which isn't provided for in the kit. Similarly, as recommended the motor is a DS10 sticking into the cab and if I were building it now (and when I re-build it) I would re-jig it for a decent drivetrain. However Gibsons may have upgraded the chassis since they took over.

[Penlan]

Looking at the underside of my Dock Tank, I see I widened the frames (EM) and the front axle is 'pivoted'.
I have a Portscap Motor and Gearbox, which tends to be the noise'st loco on the layout,

I don't know why, all the others are can motors with various Branchline or scratch built gearboxes.
For my visual requirements the back pony wheel area needed to be filled out a bit,

the kit had to much daylight showing through.  I now feel it has a sense of 'mass'.
This kit would have been built soon after the original product was released by M&L.
Wheels are Mike Sharman's, when they were Mike's.

I don't know why it has those buffers on it, they are not LNWR? 

However the kit was originally put to together in LMS guise for somebody else's exhibition layout

and remained that way for some 30+ years.  Obviously back now in LNWR livery.

 

Edit - Beggar - That rear sandbox doesn't look level, so much for taking a piccie.

 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Penlan

[Coal Tank]

The dock tank is a nice little kit I have one in P4 and it also has a ports cap motor

John

[stevejjjexcov]

Looking at the underside of my Dock Tank, I see I widened the frames (EM) and the front axle is 'pivoted'.

I have a Portscap Motor and Gearbox, which tends to be the noise'st loco on the layout,

I don't know why, all the others are can motors with various Branchline or scratch built gearboxes.

For my visual requirements the back pony wheel area needed to be filled out a bit,

the kit had to much daylight showing through. I now feel it has a sense of 'mass'.

This kit would have been built soon after the original product was released by M&L.

Wheels are Mike Sharman's, when they were Mike's.

 

I don't know why it has those buffers on it, they are not LNWR?

However the kit was originally put to together in LMS guise for somebody else's exhibition layout

and remained that way for some 30+ years. Obviously back now in LNWR livery.

 

Edit - Beggar - That rear sandbox doesn't look level, so much for taking a piccie.

 

Box - Dock Tank.jpg

 

Looking at the underside of my Dock Tank, I see I widened the frames (EM) and the front axle is 'pivoted'.

I have a Portscap Motor and Gearbox, which tends to be the noise'st loco on the layout,

I don't know why, all the others are can motors with various Branchline or scratch built gearboxes.

For my visual requirements the back pony wheel area needed to be filled out a bit,

the kit had to much daylight showing through. I now feel it has a sense of 'mass'.

This kit would have been built soon after the original product was released by M&L.

Wheels are Mike Sharman's, when they were Mike's.

 

I don't know why it has those buffers on it, they are not LNWR?

However the kit was originally put to together in LMS guise for somebody else's exhibition layout

and remained that way for some 30+ years. Obviously back now in LNWR livery.

 

Edit - Beggar - That rear sandbox doesn't look level, so much for taking a piccie.

 

Box - Dock Tank.jpg

Edited May 3, 2018 by stevejjjexcov

[stevejjjexcov]

Sorry all something went wrong!!

I was going to ask Penlan if M&L did a coal engine or a cauliflower goods? My memory ain't what it was.

 

Pete Waterman was also involved with Hayle Developments they did detail bits for for GWR syphons (I think) memory again

[Steamport Southport]

They did the 17" Coal and Special DX 0-6-0s. I don't know whether they did a Cauliflower, but there isn't one on this list. GEM and London Road make them though.

 

http://www.lnwrs.org.uk/Modelling/4mmlocos.php

 

 

 

Jason

[Penlan]

I was going to ask Penlan if M&L did a coal engine or a cauliflower goods? My memory ain't what it was.

M&L did the 'Coal Engine' and 'DX', there was some beta castings for a 18" (aka 'Cauliflower'), but it never made the production line.

Some of you MAY recall that PC Models did a beta etched 'Coal Engine' back in the 70's, again never went into production.  Peter Chatham brought it along to one of the West Midlands EM Gauge Society meetings at the time.

The were various ways of changing the '00' M&L casting for EM, some people cut the running plate down the middle and thus widened it, some, like me, cut away the backs of the splasher's as far as possible, which accounts for the ripple effect seen in my 'DX' middle splasher 

However, I think the engine may be in danger of loosing it's Dome sometime soon - There was one near Bucknell Station back in the 1960's, used for a wash tub...

 

 

 

And I see the (LRM) tender still needs finishing on this 'Coal Engine' !!! 

But at least all the wheels are on the track for the three photos 

Edited May 4, 2018 by Penlan