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Big jim’s Garage conversion and layout thread


big jim
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Relax about that 75mm insulation Jim - its well worth the benefit of extra insulation to be the right side of wrong.

Juist read this thread at the prompting of Nearholmer from the Nether Madder thread and very impressed - it is going to be a beautifully snug traindriver's 'retreat from the real world'

dh

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I’m going to continue it with 50mm stuff purely based on price, unless of course eBay comes up trumps with some over ordered stuff as it did for the ceiling

 

Next working day is Monday, electric box off the wall to add the noggins and secure that pane to the wall, secure the others then build the internal wall and doorway 4ft back

 

I’ve had an idea for the internal wall that I may put a small hole in it so I can have a siding going off the layout into the workbench area so I can have a programming/test track in there attached to the layout, or the other thing I though of was have the layout actually come through the wall into the utility area and run on a narrow shelf to keep the inside of internal wall clear for the ‘home cinema’ seating I have been ordered to put in there (currently 2 gaming chairs)

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Watching this with interest. I will be doing something vaguely similar to my concrete panel garage in a few weeks time. Interesting 9and worrying!) that planning regs guys give advice that's so different. Aren't they all supposed to be advising us from the same rulebook?

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Ah !  The rule book - guidance for the wise observance of fools springs to mind...  

 

 

It's not a rule book but guidance based upon specifications of materials in differing situations.

 

Building has never been precise as there are too many variables, as an example the conversion I'm working on is 1875 on one side and pre 1800 on the other, to compound the difference the earlier building was originally a timber frame which was brick infilled in the 1800's

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.... Interesting (and worrying!) that planning regs guys give advice that's so different. Aren't they all supposed to be advising us from the same rulebook?

When I first started out councils had just that: a Rule Book called the Building Bye Laws, usually derived from the London Building Acts (laws dating back even before the 1666 Great Fire of London) . An office junior could learn them by heart in six months

 

National Buiding Regulations were introduced in 1965 and then in 1985 multiplied into an alphabetic set of parts (now Parts A  to Q).

These get re-written and updated from time to time so it is all too easy to work abroad for a bit then come back to find all your electrical know-how is obsolete.

The theoretical basis is supposed to be a set of 'performance standards' which can be met in a variety of ways by designers - but with a set of 'deemed to satisfy' specifications for things like insulation and condensation/ventilation to help ordinary builders to comply..

So Building Control has become vastly more complex than it was when an elderly guy in a bowler hat worked out of the local coucil office pre 1965 ..

It got further screwed after 2010 when policies to cut red tape and de-regulate were promised. Competition was introduced into Building Control with the approval of private sector inspectors at the same time as expenditure cuts in Counci services commenced.

The Grenfell fire was a terrible consequence of the bureacracy getting so rickety that new combinations of materials supposedly 'not supporting combustion' were being nodded through without being actually fire tested!

We can be certain that things are about to be tightened up.

 

Nevertheless I would have thought in Big Jim's case, one BCO going on leave might have left a brief note to a colleague taking over about what he had advised - no doubt BJ queried this in discussions.

Personally I would have quietly gone about the repair of my eldely garage without involving Building Control, it is not a new extension requiring inspection of foundations etc.

I have had to do this all the time with our large decrepit old house - refurbing its plumbing, electrics and insulation.

dh

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.... Interesting (and worrying!) that planning regs guys give advice that's so different. Aren't they all supposed to be advising us from the same rulebook

One thing I forgot to mention in my rant above is that Planning and Building Control are entirely separate in England (and I think Wales) ! They reqiuire separate applications, procedures, appeals and inspections.

To ordinary folk just wanting a house extension this is counter-intuitive and bewildering. The justification from the bureacrats' viewpoint is that they stem historically from different legislation (though the far more complicated regulatory conflicts of Brexit are being dealt with simply by "portmanteau" legislation.). M'Learned Friends grow fat on the adversarial complications.

Many countriesI have worked in sensibly integrate the two.

Scotland seems to have more co-ordinated planning and building control procedures introduced here.

dh

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  • 3 weeks later...
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forgot to put last week that ive got the insulation for the walls, picked up 12 sheets of 1200x2500 75mm stuff off ebay for £24 a sheet which is an absolute bargain, its all sat in th egarage awaiting my return from work and ill start to cut it up and fit between the battens

 

DED5F163-1435-4E90-BFEA-53D9CEABF6DE.jpg

 

i should also have enough to do the roof space with it and some 25mm sheets i've aquired to make up to the required 100mm thickness between the rafters

 

Then it’s a first fit for electrics and get the plasterboard in ready

Edited by big jim
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Looks good. 

 

Just an idea for the electrics, you may already be thinking this way but it might help others. The garage is 2 zones, the utility bit and the railway bit. You have a decent consumer unit , 5+5 twin RCD , looks like a wylex so breakers are readily available. Put in a 32 A ring for the utility bit. For the railway bit come off a 20 A mcb and go via a 20 A switch by the door to a 4 mm radial set of a lot of model railway sockets. That way you can switch on and off all the railway stuff easily so you don't wake up in the middle of the night panicking that you have left the soldering iron on ...... 

 

If you need an anti frost heater in the railway section put in on a separate circuit, easy to do at this stage. 

 

Sorry if its what you already intended, but might help. 

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Another day at it, insulation in place and junk cleared out to the shed

21679972-1CBD-4C32-A2B7-6D7EAD81285C.jpg

 

7805DD2E-F95A-4397-B96E-7E7DA6093080.jpg

 

Being as the big stuff needed to go in the shed Its meant I’ve had to remove the door section of the layout so it’s no longer able to be used, I’ll eventually get round to packing up the trains at some point

B4F76142-EB31-4449-A0D4-AE4E2DB92A3A.jpg

 

Electrican next for a first fit then plasterer quotes

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Nothing happening building wise, been mad busy in work and not home to be in for plasterers to give quotes etc, electrician will be doing first fit very soon but we have a funeral and half term to get out of the way first

 

Anyway, while fuelling a loco in Roberts toad last week I spotted a rather nice plank of wood in a skip, went and asked if I could have it which was ok so carried it back on 66717 from Doncaster to Birmingham

 

8E0A8BC8-B274-41C1-A167-33AE0A935EC2.jpg

 

Already battened up

092A96A2-AF08-4566-A847-713D222B8CE3.jpg

 

Being as I’ve got lots of yellow stock I thought it would be good to use it to display it, when I build the new layout I can intergrate this into one wall of the bigger layout with the mainline running behind

FCDB91D6-5454-47D1-B9B6-3AA76DFB7A50.jpg

 

Loco maintenance one end

67D57550-B337-4FC5-8C3B-CA34B61F24A7.jpg

 

Carriage shed will be the other end with a 2 coach run round in front

8AC6E1D1-20A2-45EB-9A07-3DF5215A2E7D.jpg

 

So a train arrives

D9F079F0-2B72-49FD-80AC-0A4CAF9AC7DD.jpg

 

37 draws off into the headshunt

3400A1CE-D34A-4870-889E-C35E23F045A4.jpg

 

08 comes off the headshunt onto the rear and deals with the train

3400A1CE-D34A-4870-889E-C35E23F045A4.jpg

 

Removed a short siding to in crease the ‘apron’ betweentjhe sidings

383212EA-3F97-4137-9B40-ABC006FB9B47.jpg

 

The other end I can’t decide whether to have a single siding leading to a storage siding

 

82B20805-308B-4814-B52A-FE2E2C4C5D27.jpg

 

B212204B-BDBC-495D-A6D7-DF19BE8EEEC5.jpg

 

F4AFC820-9FA7-458C-B45C-1BAE3BD69454.jpg

 

Or just go for 2 sidings

B8C1D4E4-DD5E-4853-8CE5-B6BB2AC46A75.jpg

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Excellent Jim, but probably best not to park Locos on the Shed roof. :scared: If you did that in the real world the Boss might not be to amused. :nono:

 

I do like all the Yellow Stuff, :sungum:  My mate Bob, from around the Corner, 86250 I think on here has a load, and it always impresses me.

Edited by Andrew P
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Bringing your work home with you?

 

not any more, don't do the yellow stuff now i'm with GBRf, i did think as i got the wood from the skip at the depot in roberts road should i do an EMD depot for all my 66s!

 

one good thing about having done the yellow trains in the past is i have an idea of what sort of consists i can run prototypically as before i did them it was all just "yellow trains", didn't know a UTU from a PLP-R or SGT or what locos could run with what

 

the reason i want all these on display on the layout rather than hidden away in the planned storage sidings (accessed by a helix) is that in case you've not seen my workbench thread the coaches all feature fully prototypical, illuminated interiors and where appropriate external lighting etc (well most do, still got a few more to finish off) that i want to show off 

 

EDIT: while sat here looking at the pics i've a thought, once i integrate this bit into the bigger layout the headshunt at the far end of the board (where 37254 is sat) could actually continue round and rejoin the mainline giving me two directions to arrive and depart from  

Edited by big jim
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electrician booked for next week for the first fix, lots of plugs and an extra light

 

the plasterer is coming the first week in december to board out and plaster, hes actually an on tech for NR and works on the 950 unit and TIC train!

 

i still need to decide what exactly im doing with the floor first though, any suggestions would be welcome, i am going to put down insulation sheets (foam or polystyrene?) whatever happens but.......

 

shall i put battens across too with insulation between (as per the walls but lot bigger gaps between joists) or just place the wooden flooring on top of the big sheets of insulation?

 

im botherered that if i dont have battens over time 'heavy traffic' areas of the building may start to 'sink' as the insulation sheet compresses under weight

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 just place the wooden flooring on top of the big sheets of insulation?

 

im botherered that if i dont have battens over time 'heavy traffic' areas of the building may start to 'sink' as the insulation sheet compresses under weight

 

 

That's all that is needed, it's a floating floor.  The insulation won't compress if you use the denser foam (Celotex etc) but might if you use Polystyrene (the white one)

Edited by chris p bacon
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That's all that is needed, it's a floating floor.  The insulation won't compress if you use the denser foam (Celotex etc) but might if you use Polystyrene (the white one)

tbh i was hoping to use polystyrene on the grounds of cost, i noticed b+q had a black version which appeared denser and didnt 'feel' like polystyrene and was in the affordable price bracket, will have to see what exactly that stuff was

 

and, next question, should i do the floor before or after the plaster boarding?

 

(im thinking after, so the plasterboard goes to the existing floor)

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tbh i was hoping to use polystyrene on the grounds of cost, i noticed b+q had a black version which appeared denser and didnt 'feel' like polystyrene and was in the affordable price bracket, will have to see what exactly that stuff was

 

and, next question, should i do the floor before or after the plaster boarding?

 

(im thinking after, so the plasterboard goes to the existing floor)

 

So long as it's dense it'll be fine.  The amount of traffic it's likely to take is fairly minimal.

 

You can plaster board before or after, your choice, If before though and you take it to the floor, make sure there is membrane between it and the concrete floor.

 

You'll have to make sure the flooring is a good fit or just use 3" thick skirting all round to cover any overcutting  :mosking:

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Finally the insulation is finished, my dad came over again to help finish it off and move the last of the offcuts to the tip, ended up with 2 full sheets left over which my wife has put on facebook for a bargain price and they have sold already!

 

the electrician did the first fix last week too and he’s coming back on Thursday to board out the plasterboard too, lots of wires in place for plugs on all walls, 2 high up for the projector we have planned, extra light feed and 2 wires to outside for security lights front and side

 

Fully insulated (and doorframe in place)

BBDCA388-6616-4380-99B8-7D4BD243444E.jpg

 

78ECB350-7FE9-4188-A1F4-49606E566DB1.jpg

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In my old Concrete Garage floor I used 2 inch Polystyrene with 3/4 Chipboard on top, then a remnant of cheap Lino, and a set of Halfords interlocking rubber Matts in the walking area, warm to the feet, easy to keep clean and fairly cheap.

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