Hadley Wood

[cornish trains jez]

I've been slowly working on a slightly more complex track formation for the fiddle yard.

 

Scissor Crossing with Slips.jpg

 

A second picture with my newest bit of motive power.

 

Scissor Crossing with Slips + V1.jpg

 

 

Impressive work there. If you can build copper clad finescale trackwork to that standard I wouldn’t bother with the finetrax stuff and use society products for all your trackwork. It will look so much better than finetrax and you could still build it to N gauge standards.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

[Atso]

Not much to report on Hadley Wood but with luck I should finally have the baseboards but the end of the year. Following my recent experience operating Vale of Oxbury at The Great Electric Train Show (thanks again Carl), I've been convinced that light weight laser cut boards are the way to go. Therefore I'll be ordering three 120cm by 90cm plywood boards just as soon as funds allow - hopefully the slightly smaller than intended size won't require any major redesign work.

 

In the meantime I've been busying myself with some commission work and building this for Hadley Wood.

 

 

A N Gauge C1 Atlantic 3D printed using a Dapol Hall fitted with Britannia driving wheels and a whole host of other spare bits and pieces. The C1s were very much still hard at work on the ECML in the 1930s with several members of the class still being shedded in the London area. This one will end up being 4452 which gained some minor fame when it deputised for a failed A4 (actually it replaced an NER Atlantic which had replaced the A4!) on the Silver Jubilee service in the summer of 1936 - one of two C1s recorded as having done so. Originally, I was going to model the other one as there is a photograph recording that event. However it also reveals that it was a snowy day and, as I'd like to model the summertime, 4452 will have to do. There is also a picture of the loco hauling a Tourist set so apparently a particularly useful prototype to model.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Atso

[Atso]

Well, the laser cut baseboards arrived today from Grainge and Hodder (several weeks early!). Naturally this afternoon's work plan went out of the window and the first of the boards got built!

 

 

 

Two more boards to build before I sand and seal everything; then I can start to think about laying some trackwork. Speaking of track, last weekend saw the construction of the first of the two production 'super scissor' crossings for the fiddle yard.

 

 

The above formation was the result of around ten hours work - I can't wait to get the other one out of the way! As this formation is for the fiddle yard, I decided to try and simplify the double slips so that I only need two blades at each end. By making the outer blades also act as continuous check rails, and paying careful attention to the clearances in the center, all of the items of stock tested seem to be happy enough to negotiate this formation. Next will be the fun of isolating the various rails using a piercing saw and trying to wire it up!

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Baseboards ?? Thought they were pizza boxes..........

 

manna

[Atso]

G'Day Folks

 

Baseboards ?? Thought they were pizza boxes..........

 

manna

PIZZA BOXES!!!!!

[manna]

G'Day ATSO

 

Well we have had the 'Cake Box challenge'...........and 'N' gauge 'IS' very small.  now go ahead and 

 

manna

[Atso]

Right, this evening I finally cleared the baseboards of the rubbish that had accumulated on the, packed up some odd bits of stock and took apart the temporary Kato test track.

Following this, I started to plot out the positions of the points in the scenic area from a 1935 OS map I have as well as the positions of the 'super scissors' from the track plan. Once I done this, I got all of the track I've built to date and laid in in the approximate position they will be once fixed down.

 

This has been taken from the scenic side looking north towards Potters Bar.

 

 

While this view is looking South towards New Barnet and King's Cross.

 

 

The visible section of the layout between the tunnels has been reduced by 2 inches to 9'1", making it fractionally shorter than scale. However, this allows me to fit a couple of extra kickback sidings that will house portions of the GN and EC expresses that will be such a key feature of the layout.

 

While nothing has been fixed down, this feels like a major milestone has finally been reached in the project and this exercise has been extremely satisfying. However, it is also somewhat daunting looking at how quickly the layout has gobbled up the track I've made to date - only another 40 copper clad points to build! On the plus side, each of the points works out at around 10% of the cost of the equivalent Peco point, the layout wouldn't be financially viable if I was using Peco. 3.6 meters by 90 cm seems so small on the computer but so large when you look at it like this. There is a Gresley 61' teak on the layout - can you find it!?!

 

I've got another five meters of Finetrax plain track to order and this will see the goods yard and non-scenic curves completed. I've decided to use Finetrax sleeper bases for all the plain track to provide some movement in the rails to allow for expansion. However, once past the curve, I'll be chopping the sleeper bases into batches of three sleepers and double spacing them to save a bit of money here - the additional code 40 rail will come from the 2mm Association as it is slightly cheaper than Finetrax.

 

Anyway, not a huge amount but proof that something is actually happening regarding the building of this layout!
 

[richard i]

I feel your trepidation. I am 12 years in to a 10 year build. Now looks more like 15 or 20 years to finish. I have enjoyed the journey though. Some thing to accept when you have to build a lot of the locos and stock as well as the layout. 

Richard

[Atso]

Thanks Richard, it is good to know that I'm not alone!

 

I'm in no rush to finish. Actually that's a lie, but I've had so many false starts on layouts trying to get things done quickly and never being satisfied that maybe I've finally learnt a little patience. If it takes me 15 to 20 years and I manage to build something to the standards you're achieving, I'll be very satisfied.

[manna]

G'day Folks

 

Nice to see a bit of track going down, but I was hoping, we'd see something running in the next few weeks ?????  LOL

 

manna

[Atso]

9 hours ago, manna said:

G'day Folks

 

Nice to see a bit of track going down, but I was hoping, we'd see something running in the next few weeks ?????  LOL

 

manna

 

I think a few weeks might be somewhat optimistic Manna. I'm hoping that I might be able to build a couple of points a week - this is definitely a long term project now! 

[richard i]

21 hours ago, Atso said:

Thanks Richard, it is good to know that I'm not alone!

 

I'm in no rush to finish. Actually that's a lie, but I've had so many false starts on layouts trying to get things done quickly and never being satisfied that maybe I've finally learnt a little patience. If it takes me 15 to 20 years and I manage to build something to the standards you're achieving, I'll be very satisfied.

Thank you that is kind of you to say so. I do however only build in 4mm for uk stuff rather than 2mm. It makes it easier to see and fit the detail. 

Richard

[Atso]

For the first time in a few weeks I found myself with a largely free day today so I built a few more turnouts for the fiddle yard.

 

 

These represent about five hours work (including a break for lunch). Following a visit from my best friend, I managed to get a fifth turnout built. I've got another five turnouts to build and then I have enough to create the eight core loops and the start of the lines that lead off the outer two loops to the kickback sidings. Plain track on the other hand....

[Atso]

I've been spending a little time deciding how I want to do the fiddle yard. As I am cash strapped at the moment, I made the decision some time ago to scratch build all of the points for the hidden section. However, this created some issues to resolve as the copper clad points are around 0.45mm lower than Finetrax. After much thought, I decided to get some 0.6mm iron on veneer and laid this onto the bulk of the fiddle yard area today. This will be sanded back to bring the copper clad points and the Finetrax to the same height. This does mean that I have committed myself to building all of the plain track in this section out of copper clad as well.

 

I've not sanded the veneer back yet but I have placed most of the existing copper clad track that I've built onto boards to start getting a feel for how this will look and work.

 

 

In total there will be fifteen lines in the main fiddle yard section with a couple of additional kick back sidings (made from Finetrax) curving around at each end. I'd estimate that I've built around a quarter of the copper clad that is required and around half of the Finetrax. I've been fortunate that a couple of swaps with another modeller yielded another four meters of Finetrax sleeper bases and I already have rail to thread through this. This means that I probably have enough Finetrax bits now to complete the scenic track work as well as the bits that will end up leading to the fiddle yard.

 

It is nice to feel that the pipe dream is slowly becoming a reality and will actually be achievable! Hopefully a start will be made on actual track laying in the next couple of weeks.

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

What about brass nails, knocked into the baseboard, and rails soldered to them, might speed it up a bit and keep the cost down ??

 

manna

[croydon junction]

12 minutes ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

What about brass nails, knocked into the baseboard, and rails soldered to them, might speed it up a bit and keep the cost down ??

 

manna

Could work although warping could be an issue, although didn't Copenhagen Fields use something similar except with plates in the fiddle yard?

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

Yes I believe they did, easy enough to read through there thread.

 

manna

Edited March 14, 2019 by manna

[Atso]

I've been asked a few times recently about progress on Hadley Wood. The truth is that other bits and pieces have gotten in the way along with days where I've not been able to do much (thankfully getting fewer in number now).

 

As a bit of an update, I present the sum total of the fiddle yard track built to date.

 

 

This represents almost enough track to start laying down the first few bits of the fiddle yard and around 25% of the total track required (both plain and points). Thankfully I only need two "super scissors" and I hope that they work as designed!

 

Hopefully I'll be able to built another three points tomorrow as well as a few more straights and start to seriously think about laying it down.

[Atso]

Things have actually progressed a little with some of the track starting to be laid!

 

It hasn't all be plain sailing though, the "super scissor" is out! It was laid on Friday afternoon and following much testing and fettling, I decided to scrap it as it would have been too unreliable. I spent Saturday and Sunday mornings building a replacement standard scissor crossing (about five hours work) and got this in place last night. A couple of points feed it into the rest of the fiddle yard at at expense of around 10cm off the planned length of the loops.

 

 

Pictured above is the work to date, three of the points are only roughly positioned and not fixed yet. The plan is to build the entrances to the loops and kick back sidings on this board and then everything laid will be wired up and tested. This won't include any of the inner kick back sidings as the entrance to these will be on the middle board and will only be laid once the final position of the points feeding these has been established. Hopefully, the work to date starts to give an indication of just how expansive the fiddle yard will be.

 

Once I've finished laying this initial section, progress will slow as my father, a retired electronics engineer, is responsible for the wiring (and teaching me how it all works so I can repair it myself in the future!).

 

I no longer have some baseboards and bits of track, but instead I finally have the beginnings of a layout! Even better, the test wagons an coach have been successfully pushed over the sections laid so far!

[richard i]

I had the same idea as you for kick back sidings once my layout goes into the round. I will look with interest at how it works out for you as you seem most likely to get to the testing stage for that first.

richard 

[Pete the Elaner]

I have only just seen this thread.

One of my friends wanted to do Hadley Wood in OO but never got around to it.

I shared your desire to model a real location on a busy line and am now doing just that. My preferences are for WCML in OO but these are minor compared to the things we have in common.

 

Although my location has no pointwork, I am more interested in capturing the feel of the location by its buildings & structures. The project which has sprung from this is for me the most pleasing thing I have done to date. I really do not care how long it takes me. I never seemed to have this patience with previous layouts. I think this is because I am now working on the project I always wanted.

If you build something you later feel unhappy with (a building or wall etc), do not be afraid to scrap it & start again. It is very rewarding to see it built more accurately second time around. You just don't get this from a 'freelance' layout.

 

Your fiddle yard looks very complicated. Like most, the main lines seem to run through the middle. I questioned this & designed my through lines to run outside the storage loops, so both have equal access. When running it as a 1930s layout, after running through the up fast, the same train can re-emerge a few minutes later on the down fast with a different loco on the front. Since Euston is only 5 miles up the line, surely this is entirely accurate anyway?

[Atso]

12 hours ago, richard i said:

I had the same idea as you for kick back sidings once my layout goes into the round. I will look with interest at how it works out for you as you seem most likely to get to the testing stage for that first.

richard 

 

Thank Richard,

 

My inspiration was seeing how Little Bytham (as an operation) and Borchester Market worked. I'll keep you informed on how things develop. My biggest concern is pushing N gauge wagons through the point work but my tests so far have been positive.

 

One thing I'm not looking forward to is checking the back to backs on all my stock. Dapol generally seem to be set correctly but Farish wheels can be all over the place. While the Farish stuff is usually fine using Peco (or other brand's) track, the slightly tighter tolerances of my hand built stuff leads to derailments until they are adjusted.

[Atso]

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I have only just seen this thread.

One of my friends wanted to do Hadley Wood in OO but never got around to it.

I shared your desire to model a real location on a busy line and am now doing just that. My preferences are for WCML in OO but these are minor compared to the things we have in common.

 

Although my location has no pointwork, I am more interested in capturing the feel of the location by its buildings & structures. The project which has sprung from this is for me the most pleasing thing I have done to date. I really do not care how long it takes me. I never seemed to have this patience with previous layouts. I think this is because I am now working on the project I always wanted.

If you build something you later feel unhappy with (a building or wall etc), do not be afraid to scrap it & start again. It is very rewarding to see it built more accurately second time around. You just don't get this from a 'freelance' layout.

 

Your fiddle yard looks very complicated. Like most, the main lines seem to run through the middle. I questioned this & designed my through lines to run outside the storage loops, so both have equal access. When running it as a 1930s layout, after running through the up fast, the same train can re-emerge a few minutes later on the down fast with a different loco on the front. Since Euston is only 5 miles up the line, surely this is entirely accurate anyway?

 

Thanks Pete,

 

To be honest, Hadley Wood was not my first choice for a location; that was Hitchin. However, to do Hitchin justice would take almost twice the space I have access to and the two closely spaced tunnels at Hadley Wood make it much easier to model a self-contained scene. Maybe one day I'll get to build Hitchin and incorporate Hadley Wood into a large layout.... One day.... 

 

My own interests lie more with operating (close to) prototypical trains and the scenic side of things is a secondary concern (although I will be modelling it as accurately as my abilities allow). I share your belief that it is better to make something several times and get it right than to accept something that will only become more disappointing as time goes on. I’ve attempted to build freelance layouts in the past but have never managed to progress them to the scenic stage as they’ve become too far removed from prototypical practices and interest has waned. I’ve found researching Hadley Wood very enjoyable to date and far more enjoyable than trying to make something that didn’t exist believable.

 

In keeping with my interest in prototypical operation, I plan to operate a sequence to be able to tell a story of the kind of things that were happening between 1932 and 1939. The fiddle yard has been designed with this in mind to try and represent a cross section of the many trains that would have passed through Hadley Wood. The idea is that the fiddle yard therefore can be operated as three separate sections (outer kickbacks, loops and inner kickbacks) so that something can be kept moving in the scenic section while one of the banks of kickback sidings can be getting the another train ready. I’ll have to wait until I’ve got all the track laid and wired up before I can start assessing how successful the plan is in reality. I guess the trick will be planning the sequence around what can be achieved. Yes, it is complicated but, hopefully, I’ll only have to lay, wire and fettle it once! 

 

What location are you modelling? Somewhere very close to Euston obviously. Do you have a link to your layout, I’d love to see what you are doing?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Atso

[richard i]

1 hour ago, Atso said:

 

Thank Richard,

 

My inspiration was seeing how Little Bytham (as an operation) and Borchester Market worked. I'll keep you informed on how things develop. My biggest concern is pushing N gauge wagons through the point work but my tests so far have been positive.

 

One thing I'm not looking forward to is checking the back to backs on all my stock. Dapol generally seem to be set correctly but Farish wheels can be all over the place. While the Farish stuff is usually fine using Peco (or other brand's) track, the slightly tighter tolerances of my hand built stuff leads to derailments until they are adjusted.

Back to backs are key, even in the bigger scales. I found the biggest help for the n gauge stuff was weight, a penny a boxcar. (Sorry n scale stuf is USA outline) made all the difference. 

For single person operating have something move while working the kick back might be one thing too many to keep track of. 

RichardPrichard

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Atso said:

 

What location are you modelling? Somewhere very close to Euston obviously. Do you have a link to your layout, I’d love to see what you are doing?

South Hampstead. in OO, it has about 7' of track between Primrose Hill tunnels & Loudoun Road bridge, where the old & new station buildings were/are. There is a link to it at the bottom of my posts.

I am modelling it as it was in late 30s & like you, I have photos of most of it but some of the other areas will have to be done as I think they would have been, but there are lots of clues remaining like cable hangers on the platforms.

I then intend to model it around 1990. It has not changed much between then & now so I have lots of my own recent photos to work from. It will look very different from the 30s version though, with concrete sleeper track, a nasty new station building, no centre return rail on the DC lines & of course overhead wires on the fast & slow lines. Even the bridge carrying the GC over the top was renewed, presumably when the WCML was electrified.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Pete the Elaner