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Burton-on-Trent South - Adding Buildings


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6 hours ago, young37215 said:

Nice work Ian, as you have said Lima coaches can be perfectly acceptable with a little bit of time and effort. The price that the Bachmann coaches seem to fetch now makes it even more attractive to upgrade the Limas.

Rob,

 

I really have no objections to the old Lima coaches. The ones I bought in ~1981 only cost ~£2.50 each at the time (some even less):good:. Yes, there have been improvements in models in the intervening 40 years, but not really that much:nea:. It's only the windows that have markedly improved. I do like some of the new Bachmann models, but fitting Kadees can be a real pain:negative:, and much harder than for the Limas as the NEM pockets are invariably at the wrong height.

 

Ian

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1 hour ago, mallaig1983 said:

Nice work there Ian. Certainly look a lot better than the last time I saw them. Really pleased they’ve found a good home.


Andy

Andy,

 

I'm pleased to have given them a new home. They look 'the part' in my rakes of carriages, and I'm pleased to now have more 2nd class than 1st class in my Mk1 rakes:danced:. They'll be getting plenty of 'mileage' around the layout, where I estimate a full circuit run is ~57m or so.

 

Ian

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57m is some run! I think a circuit of mine is about 12…

 

Good to see the upgrades to the coaches. I fancy having a go at a Lima mk2c TSOT, but a single coach in a rake of Bachmanns might be a step too far. 

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11 hours ago, 61656 said:

57m is some run! I think a circuit of mine is about 12…

 

Good to see the upgrades to the coaches. I fancy having a go at a Lima mk2c TSOT, but a single coach in a rake of Bachmanns might be a step too far. 

The nice 'long run' was one of the benefits of the 'folded 8' layout that I really liked:good:. Okay, mine is folded twice (ish) as the ramps between the Upper and Lower levels go around the room more than once, and hence the long runs. I can leave 2 trains running on the Mainlines and they only come by, what will eventually be, the scenic Upper Level infrequently:yes:. This will leave me to play operate in the MPD and Brewery Sidings independently:locomotive:. Plus I'll be able to squeeze in a few southbound DMU departures, from the bay platform, to the likes of Leicester and Lichfield.

 

The long run also allows 2 trains to operate on the same 'circuit', as they are sufficiently far apart. I have managed to get 4 trains running, 2 on the NB and 2 on the SB, with me controlling the speed of just 2 trains (one of each circuit) so that the spacing was maintained:heat:. The other 2 trains were left at 'constant speed'. And all of this with a single NCE PowerCab, with power draw maxed out at ~1.25amps. You do need to keep your wits about you, as any derailment or other incident, requires swift intervention to avoid a copy of Harrow & Wealdstone:scare:.

 

I think that a Mk2c conversion is well worth trying. There is little or no internal differences, other than the flat ceiling that is not noticeable through the windows. Externally the roof vents are very different in both location & quantity, and the end doors are painted a lime green instead of a red. Other than that, are there any other visible external differences? Would it look out of place in a set of Bachmanns, probably if they were all Mk2a/b/c. It would blend in better with Bachmann Mk1s (BG, Buffet, TSOs, SKs) or even some air-con Mk2s, where the different window shapes would 'mask' the Lima. If you decide to make a Mk2c, do post details:rtfm:, as it's something I'd want to consider.

 

Ian

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Comparing Lima & Bachmann Models

 

To put this to the 'test':scratch_one-s_head_mini:, the following video shows a Class 47 passing by and hauling a rake of Mk2b coaches (with the obligatory Mk1 catering vehicle). The Mk2b are mostly Lima, with my usual enhancements:good:, but there are a few Bachmann interlopers:pleasantry: ...

 

 

I remain quite pleased with the Lima models, especially considering the considerable cost saving over the Bachmann equivalents. What are your thoughts?

 

Ian

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The only oddity I could see in the video is the buffet runs slightly higher than the rest of the coaches. Other than that I would have to work hard to identify the differing brands that make up the consist as they blend together quite happily.

 

The one thing I did notice was a lack of passengers; unless you are figuring on running ECS movements only it should not be to much of a challenge to add passengers. Ebay sells plenty of Chinese produced figures for a modest cost, 200 should cost less than £20. The figures are a bit cheap and cheerful but hidden away in a coach it is hard work to notice, e.g.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224365029862?hash=item343d32a9e6:g:CX8AAOSw4XRgN5yo&var=523151905837

 

  

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On 15/06/2021 at 06:34, young37215 said:

The only oddity I could see in the video is the buffet runs slightly higher than the rest of the coaches

Rob,

 

I must admit I noticed that too. I can only put that down to my modifications to fit commonwealth bogies in place of the incorrect B1s. I'll have to see if I can lower the body about a millimetre.

 

On 15/06/2021 at 06:34, young37215 said:

The one thing I did notice was a lack of passengers; unless you are figuring on running ECS movements only it should not be to much of a challenge to add passengers.

This is one issue that I'm not really sure about. It's not something I had seriously considered, although I do own a Lima 2-car Class 101 that the previous owner had added a few passengers and it does look good. I had originally thought that passengers were only 'necessary' if you had lighting inside the coaches.

 

I might have to revisit this topic in the future, with your eBay link in mind!

 

Ian

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11 hours ago, ISW said:

This is one issue that I'm not really sure about. It's not something I had seriously considered, although I do own a Lima 2-car Class 101 that the previous owner had added a few passengers and it does look good. I had originally thought that passengers were only 'necessary' if you had lighting inside the coaches.

 

I might have to revisit this topic in the future, with your eBay link in mind!

 

Well worth the modest effort in my opinion, I am very much aware of the handful of coaches that dont have passengers in them.

 

774924541_170520002.JPG.cfbe0aefc98e2fde5c19113bcca2c555.JPG

1832924916_170520012.JPG.2d2d2022e08cf57c6b54139438479b79.JPG

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3 hours ago, young37215 said:

Well worth the modest effort in my opinion, I am very much aware of the handful of coaches that dont have passengers in them.

Rob,

 

Is there any 'process' to the selection of 'passengers' and/or their seating location, or it is just better to simply toss/throw a few passengers and see where they land? (the method some gardeners use to place plants).

 

Ian

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1 hour ago, ISW said:

Rob,

 

Is there any 'process' to the selection of 'passengers' and/or their seating location, or it is just better to simply toss/throw a few passengers and see where they land? (the method some gardeners use to place plants).

 

Ian

Absolutely random although upon review I probably added too many people for prototypical west highland train loadings!

 

Its also worth looking at the colour of tables in addition to the work you have done on interiors. The different colours I have used create an interesting contrast between trains. 

 

879319844_130620025.JPG.35f4158dd3e6b3fb768b6fdaee51a704.JPG

1730158666_130620026.JPG.3838879556b69ec8a7ba06a2e2054be6.JPG

 

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8 hours ago, young37215 said:

Absolutely random although upon review I probably added too many people for prototypical west highland train loadings!

 

Its also worth looking at the colour of tables in addition to the work you have done on interiors. The different colours I have used create an interesting contrast between trains.

Rob,

 

As I suspected, just be totally random in the placement of 'passengers'. Will do.

 

When I painted the interior of Lima Open Mk2b carriages, I painted the tables in the same colour as the seating, as that's what my memory told me. Blue in 2nd class, and orange in 1st. I'll take a look through my Mk2 carriage book to check / verify. If I've got the 'roof off' to place passengers, it makes sense to take the opportunity to paint the tables in the 'correct' colour. I don't have any Lima Mk1 open stock, where I would have done off-white melamine colour for the tables (I did that in my Lima buffets though).

 

I'll be skipping passengers in the Airfix Mk2ds, as the windows are tinted to the extent that you can't see much through them. I did already paint the interior seating blue / orange back in ~1982.

 

Ian

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  • 1 month later...

Another Lima Coach Fettled

 

I know that I really should be getting on with weathering of the track on my layout:nea:, but I'm concerned that my total lack of experience with an airbrush, acrylic paints, and the hot weather will combine to produce some truly awful results; and that's only on the 'test panel'.:negative: 

 

So here we go with another coach fettling:danced:, this time a Lima Mk2f , a model I didn't even realise they'd made. It's amazing what you find browsing on TheBay.:read:

 

It's getting all my usual treatments; SE Finecast windows (a packet I bought years back as it was cheap but for which I had no use at the time), painted interior, corrected vestibule ends (toilet area), passengers (after some proding by Rob), end door painted, coach end transfers (OHLE & 'C1'), and Kadee couplings.

 

Here is some photos of progress with the interior; SE Finecast windows fitted, interior painted, passengers added, and vestibule area corrected:

1626978030215_resize.jpg.6e541b792c0d9eafb1115d6d874ef3a4.jpg

 

I wanted to simply leave the existing Lima 'window glazing', but it's too 'frosted' and obscures the interior:angry:. It was therefore carefully 'carved' to keep the retaining lugs and enough at each end to stop the interior moulding moving around (and provide the obscured glazing for the toilet windows):

1626978030210_resize.jpg.10785f641917ea2815b2bc68a232fe26.jpg

 

Ian

 

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Another Lima Coach Fettling Completed

 

Following re-assembly, installation of Kadee couplings (#156 type), and placement of transfers the Lima Mk2f is complete:good:. Although I don't have any of the newer Hornby and/or Bachmann Mk2 airconditioned coaches for comparison (my mortgage wouldn't stretch that far:no2:), I think these old Lima Mk2 coaches are quite acceptable once a little, cheap, fettling has been done to them:yes:.

IMG_20210724_091351_resize.jpg.b71205f9af1feef5fab6e79fce3813a5.jpg

 

Ian

 

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Hello Ian,

Apologies that I've not looked in for a while. Very nice work with the coaches, they have come up really well with the work you have done. It's always nice to see what people are doing with these older models and just up my street! Must admit I'm guilty of not having passengers in my own "fleet" at the moment.

 

You commented regarding doing some Mk2c coaches; not sure how far you are wanting to go but the Lavatory windows in these should be of the squared type with a vent above (similar to those in air-con stock) as per this Flickr link:

Mk2C BFK M17130

 

Not impossible to modify from a Mk2b but difficult if you don't want to undertake a full repaint I guess?

 

Regards,

Martyn.

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11 hours ago, Signaller69 said:

Hello Ian,

Apologies that I've not looked in for a while. Very nice work with the coaches, they have come up really well with the work you have done. It's always nice to see what people are doing with these older models and just up my street! Must admit I'm guilty of not having passengers in my own "fleet" at the moment.

 

You commented regarding doing some Mk2c coaches; not sure how far you are wanting to go but the Lavatory windows in these should be of the squared type with a vent above (similar to those in air-con stock) as per this Flickr link:

Mk2C BFK M17130

 

Not impossible to modify from a Mk2b but difficult if you don't want to undertake a full repaint I guess?

 

Regards,

Martyn.

Martyn,

 

Glad to hear you liked my coach 'fettling', complete with passengers. Having put passengers in 1 coach, I'll have to see whether I'll go back and add passengers to some other coaches in due course.

 

I've been watching your recent postings of Hornby Class 25 modifications with interest, as I have pair that could do with the same treatment. I'd be adding more weight at the same time to enable them to pull more than their own weight up my gradients.

 

The Mk2c conversion is maybe more difficult that I first imagined. I must have seen hundreds of Mk2c and never noticed the different toilet windows! I looked back through my 'BR Mark 2 Coaches' book (Micheal Harris), and not only has he got the 1978 Exeter photo description wrong on page 62 (it says Mk2b nearest, ahead of a Mk2c, when the nearest one is clearly a Mk2 or 2a, and the next one is a Mk2b, plus Mk2c were almost exclusively on the WCML at that time), but all the photos of Mk2c in the book are on the non-lavatory side. At least the Diagrams show the different toilet window. The same Diagrams also highlight the different roof vents (number, shape and location). Conversion of a Lima Mk2b to a Mk2c suddenly looks a lot harder. And, yes, it would probably involve a re-paint to boot.

 

Ian

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34 minutes ago, ISW said:

I must have seen hundreds of Mk2c and never noticed the different toilet windows!

 

all the photos of Mk2c in the book are on the non-lavatory side.

 

Ian,

I hadn't noticed until comparitively recently either so you're not alone!

 

When searching the web for a photo to link, it took me a while to find one showing the lav side, you'd think it would be a 50/50 chance on average, but it seems not!:dontknow:

 

Martyn.

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  • 2 months later...

Mojo

 

I've seen reference to ones' 'mojo' in several threads on RMWeb and wondered what is was all about:dontknow:. Now I know!:yes: Over the Summer months I've hardly been into the railway room, let alone actually run a train or two. We've had family staying with us, so that's been a good 'excuse' for me not doing any modelling. And, really, it was only an excuse.:negative:

 

What really put me back was the thought of weathering all the scenic level tracks, not an inconsiderable task in itself. I've no experience of 'weathering' or the use of the airbrush I bought, despite some practice sessions. On top of that was the thought (err, dread?) of getting the track weathering 'wrong', or not being happy about the result.:banghead: As far as I can tell, there's no 'undo' button with track weathering. I tried removing some paint (acrylics) off my practice tracks, and that proved  difficult.

 

Indeed, I think ballasting will be easier;:no2: at least you can hoover that up if you make a mess, prior to committing to the PVA/water mix.

 

However, in the last week or so I've been back to the railway room and run a few trains:senile:. That didn't go very well as one turnout failed to move on the Lower Level, and one of the baseboard joints in the Ramp tracks was causing a derailment. Mutter.

 

Ian

 

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Re-Mojo

 

Well, if that's a word /thing?:dontknow:

 

I thought I'd tackle the non-operating turnout first. After some investigation, involving holding a mobile phone over the offending turnout to take a picture :sarcastichand:(access is next to impossible), it was determined that the piano wire to the stretcher bar had become dislodged. Hence, the servo operated but the turnout blades didn't move. Plus, the turnout blades were hard to operated, even by hand. I'm guessing this occurred a while back when the associated MegaPoints 12servo board threw a 'wobbler' (good technical term that:good:). Turned out that there was nothing wrong with the MegaPoints board, but I had to unplug all the servos and re-introduce them one-at-a-time for the board to recognise them. As this particular turnout is the only one on the adjacent baseboard, I must have missed it during the re-configuration.:angry:

 

Thankfully, access to the underside of the baseboard is good, especially if you bring a nice pillow with you and a good lamp/torch;). Out with the 2 screws and the servo 'assembly' was lowered. I replaced the piano wire with a longer piece to allow re-assembly, making sure the wire went through the stretcher bar. Screws re-installed and all work under the baseboard was done. Top-side, I clipped off the excess piano wire. A quick test of the turnout proved all was okay once more. Yeah, success.:danced:

 

Next was the derailment on the Ramp track. Again access was not very good, but the swift removal of an Upper Level baseboard (thankfully, not a corner one) gave acceptable access. My 'finger' test:O implied that the rail running edge was 'smooth', but a Class 47 didn't agree and kept derailing at the first axle of a bogie. As this particular joint is on a curve, I decide to re-align the rails at the joint to a slightly 'flatter' curve alignment. This was accomplished by using a soldering iron to 'release' the rails from the brass screws, push the rail over with some pliers, and re-solder into place. 'Cut n paste' 3-times more and the track was re-aligned. This time, the Class 47 agreed with my 'finger' test. Hurrah.

 

I suppose it'd be a good idea, at this juncture, to see if any of the locos are in need of some fettling / maintenance. I've already noticed that some Kadee couplings are not exactly at the correct height ...

 

Ian

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Good to have you back Ian.  I will have all that to look forward to once I get to that stage!  As you know, I’m still at the remedial action on baseboards stage.

Paul.

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1 hour ago, 5BarVT said:

Good to have you back Ian.

Paul,

 

Thanks for the Welcome back. Whilst I have been 'offline' with regards to the Layout, I have at least 'kept my eye in' on RMWeb, reading and, occasionally, commenting on other Threads.

 

Ian

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I think you will find tht most modellers have spells where their motivation and focus drops for no obvious or apparent reason. I am very conscious of this which is one of a number of reasons I enjoy my summer sabaticals when I am largely away from my layout. Once the nights start to draw in and the days cool down, I usually find that I am drawn back to the layout with batteries recharged as it were. 

 

Everyone is different but I think we can all allow ourselves some time off from modelling without any concern. I suspect that something will click and you will find yourself consumed once more by Burton. For what it is worth my room 101 is building up scenery using polystyrene; I worry constantly about getting it perfect which is so unnecessary. I know this to be the case but it does'nt stop me gettting agitated about it. Perhaps my colour blindness helps but I spray sleeper grime onto track without a second thought for how it looks. 

 

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Rob,

 

Thanks for the support, it's appreciated. I've a reasonable 'stash' of polystyrene to build up my scenic elements as well but, for some reason, that doesn't worry me. I think that's because I can see an 'undo' button for that process. I'm sure that spraying / weathering track will eventually become second-nature, but not this week!

 

Ian

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Merry Go Round

 

No railway layout of Burton-on-Trent in the 1970s would be complete without an MGR train (or two?). They were the most common freight train by that time. To that end, I've been slowly collecting Hornby R249 MGR wagons off theBay, keeping clear of the unrealistically overpriced examples:negative:. I found it cheaper to go for those in twos or threes at a time, as that reduced, proportionally, the postage, and generally worked out a tad less expensive:yes:.

 

As all my rolling stock is fitted with Kadee couplers, I have to bite-the-bullet and start installing Kadees on the fleet of 14 MGR wagons:senile:. As a bit of an experiment, and in an effort to lower the cost, I bought some HP0787 couplers (well, that's the reference they go under) off AliExpress:O. These seem to be clones of the Bachmann EZ-mate couplings that are a clone of Kadee #158s. They do, however, fit nicely into Kadee #242 draft boxes.

 

I'd watched the Everard Junction YouTube video in which Hornby MGR wagons were disassembled (in that case for painting) so I knew it wouldn't be a problem. And it wasn't:good:. The Tension Lock coupler came off easily with a screwdriver blade, and a pair of pliers made short work of removing the brass (?) rivet. I tried drilling, but this seemed easier and less messy.

 

Some pre-assembly of the Kadee assembly onto the single axle bogie indicated that it needed to be installed quite far back towards the axle. Height-wise, it needed to to installed to the underside of the single axle bogie. So, out came my Demel-clone with a cutting disc. More by luck than judgement:imsohappy:, the screw attachment point fell nicely into the bogie frame. I call that a win. I always like to install my Kadees with a screw and not glue. A screw is removable, and allows for 'adjustment' later if necessary.

 

Here is a photo of the single axle bogie before (right) and after (left) fitting of the Kadee couplings:

IMG_20211009_202059_resize.jpg.c05bc3680e32676e5645adb7ab080ad6.jpg

 

And here is a affect all this work has on the realism of the couplings between MGR wagons. A much close coupling, but remains adequate to pass 2nd radius curves:

IMG_20211009_204805_resize.jpg.588a724d76d3888866020244a028148e.jpg

 

The only problem is the repetitive nature of the installation:huh:. I've 28 'ends' to install ... Yes, those nasty Hornby wheelsets do look horrible, and I might have to retrofit them at a later date.

 

Ian

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I think we all go through periods where we lose enthusiasm, particularly building such a large layout on your own! I usually find a break or a change in tasks gets me back on course. 
 

Track painting and ballasting are two of the most significant jobs on a layout, so inevitably bring some doubts with them. I don’t think there’s any better advice than go watch some Chadwick Parkway on youtube - certainly got me through!

 

And if all else fails, open a beer and run some trains!

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1 hour ago, 61656 said:

I think we all go through periods where we lose enthusiasm, particularly building such a large layout on your own! I usually find a break or a change in tasks gets me back on course.

Thanks for the encouragement and support. It does help.

 

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

Track painting and ballasting are two of the most significant jobs on a layout, so inevitably bring some doubts with them. I don’t think there’s any better advice than go watch some Chadwick Parkway on youtube - certainly got me through!

 

I do watch Chadwick on YouTube. I saw he had problems weathering some track recently, so at least I know I'm not alone.

 

1 hour ago, 61656 said:

And if all else fails, open a beer and run some trains!

Now don't get me tempted ... Strange as it seems, I've had a couple of beers in the fridge for most of this year, untouched. I can see beer and running trains being rather relaxing, so long as there are no derailments! At present I usually listen to the Radio (Absolute 70s) or stream some of my music collection from my NAS.

 

Ian

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