Jump to content

ISW

Burton-on-Trent South - Rolling Stock

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

 

I looked at that and it seemed to be a bit hit and miss to me. Nothing was fixed and he kept on moving the centre of his "tool" so he couln't have been getting any sort of accurate radius, just generally curving the track. Flexitrack forms nice curves pretty naturally in my experience so I didn;t think his method really added anything.

 

In the little bit of track laying that I've done recently I just marked the centre line using a radius from a fixed point, then hand positioned/curved the track on that. It was good enough but I think when I do more I would try to mark the inner and outer edges of the sleepers.

 

Getting smooth joins in curved track is a more difficult and arguably more important issue than the curves themselves.

 

Phil,

 

I've made my own version of the 'tool' and plan to give-it-a-go in the next few days. My reasoning for using the tool is that I'm about to lay the tracks on my ramp elements and will need several duplicate 90-degree bends curves:

  1. 639mm radius x6
  2. 587mm radius x6
  3. 535mm radius x3

I'm hoping that the tool makes this work a little easier. Any help of this kind is always appreciated. I'll still mark out the track centreline and sleeper ends on the underlay and install according to those lines (with the help of my box of railway curves to smooth out the alignment), but I'm hopeful that the precurved track from the tool will make this a little easier.

 

Unfortunately, the length of standard Pico Code-100 (and probably others) means I'll have a fishplated joint in all of the curves! Mutter ... My usual method to ensure alignment through the fishplated joint is to install temporary umbrella pins at the sleeper ends to prevent lateral movement while the PVA glue sets. Fingers crossed.

 

 

  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramp Progress

 

The ramp elements have now been painted (Wilko grey undercoat for those interested) and the grey foam underlay glued into place using neat PVA glue. Incidentally, I saw some of the same foam underlay I use for sale in Homebase (in Rotherham) last week. That's only the second time I've seen it on sale.

 

A roller was used on the surface of the foam to evenly press the foam down onto the glue. The foam was then held in place with timber spreaders weighed down with paving stone offcuts to ensure good contact during the drying process. This seems to have worked quite well.

 

Yes, there are many joins in the foam. I used up any space 'bits' I had lying around and then used rectangular strips cut from my roll of foam. For the curved elements, the strips were cut into trapezoidal-ish shapes to make them fit. This meant I wasn't wasting large amounts of foam through offcuts. 

20190914_182023_resize.jpg.6ceff351e67c4b7a389431413823f176.jpg

 

These will now be progressively re-installed onto the layout and track laying commenced, starting from the lower level connections. I think the exact sequence of tracklaying will be dictated by more by access than any underlying logic!

 

  • Craftsmanship/clever 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramps - Much Progress

 

For reference to the various baseboard designations, please refer back to my posting of 12th July: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133913-burton-on-trent-south-ramps/&do=findComment&comment=3610953

 

 

All the ramp elements have now been re-installed :yahoo_mini: (after painting & installation of the track underlay). This comprises 16 cantilevered elements and 2 ramp connections to the lower level baseboards (A & H). The cantilevered elements are split into 7 cantilevered elements with 3-tracks & 9 cantilevered elements with 2-tracks. These are supported by 10 support cantilevers, mostly supporting both the 3-track & 2-track ramps, although there are a couple just supporting the 2-track ramp.

 

The tracks have been installed and glued down to the track underlay using neat PVA. :crazy:

 

Here are a few views of ramp baseboards I & J, including the connections to the lower track baseboards (door side of room):

IMG_20190930_192020_resize.jpg.b442366a01605bd375d852d8adf87f9e.jpg

 

IMG_20190930_192043_resize.jpg.4d13068e2b51b1ac07a44d70ea548cc9.jpg

 

And here are the ramp elements for baseboards D & E (opposite the door):

IMG_20190930_191908_resize.jpg.b0f1ba937c78ad5eb6d58b9331af905b.jpg

 

IMG_20190930_191927_resize.jpg.7ba072f28ab38f6bb33c05d299e2889b.jpg

 

At joints between the ramp elements brass screws have been screwed into the ramp baseboards to allow for the next step, which will be to solder the tracks to the screws to permit the rails to be cut. This will, of course, mean that I cannot run trains up/down the ramps :stop: until the track bus wiring has been completed under the ramp baseboards, but will permit the ramp elements to be individually removed for any future access / maintenance / cleaning / etc and for installation of the bus wires (with the baseboards turned over - much nicer access) :clapping:.

 

While the rails are continuous, I've taken the opportunity to thoroughly clean the railhead, which somehow becomes contaminated with the PVA (fumes?). A rather tedious task using Scotch green pads :haha:. Some 'testing' was carried out with a Lima Class 20, as this only has 2-axle pickup and is good at finding dirty track!

 

As you might have noticed from the photos, I've now occupied the ramps with the majority of my rolling stock and this has completely cleared the storage sidings on the lower level baseboards D & E (opposite the door) :superman::

IMG_20190930_192147_resize.jpg.212b9a8d571ed6459394ca484ba9d514.jpg

 

IMG_20190930_192212_resize.jpg.4e6cb5e96b80ea4a479eed4ccb139f5e.jpg

 

There are a few 'problems' to resolve, where there isn't quite enough clearance under the support cantilevers for trains on the lower level. This applies particularly to my old Tri-ang Hornby Class 25s that are a tad oversize in the vertical axis! However, this doesn't prevent me getting on with the track to brass screw soldering and rail cutting.

 

 

IMG_20190930_192106_resize.jpg

IMG_20190930_192118_resize.jpg

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following this topic with similarities to the layout build in progress for the Trent Valley Railway. Tried to read off the diagrams the level distance between lower level and the top level being around 35cm? Would be grateful if you could direct me to previous posts I may have missed on this subject.

 

thanks Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TrentValleyRailway said:

Following this topic with similarities to the layout build in progress for the Trent Valley Railway. Tried to read off the diagrams the level distance between lower level and the top level being around 35cm? Would be grateful if you could direct me to previous posts I may have missed on this subject.

 

thanks Matt

Matt,

 

I suppose I could have made that a little clearer :read:. Take a look at the following posting:

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133913-burton-on-trent-south-ramps/&do=findComment&comment=3154385

 

Important details are:

  • Upper Level: Datum 0mm, with 100mm fall in the ‘loop’.
  • Connections: Two connecting inclines, one of 3-Tracks [connection 1] and other of 2-Tracks [connection 2 & 2b].
  • Lower Level: Datum -350mm, all level.

Essentially, the levels are in red in [brackets] on a yellow background. Gradients are in black (ish) in {brackets} on an orange background. It would have been clearer if the text wrapping hadn't gone awry and had been on a single line.

 

The upper level is datum 0 at the station area. However, there is a fall of 100mm along the tracks such that the mainlines go under the station at the top-right of the upper level baseboard. The ramps are at 1:40 (2.5%) for the 2-track ramp and 1:48 (~2%) for the 3-track ramp. The entire lower level is at datum -350mm.

 

This means that a full 'circuit' of the layout would be from the station, around the upper level, down the ramp (about 1 loop), around the lower level, up the ramp (about 1 loop), and back to the station. In total it's 4 complete loops of the room, a nice long run.

 

I hope that clears it up. Let me know if you need any further information or details. Glad to help.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramp Elements - Easy Electrics

 

Once I had the brass screws [1] soldered to the rails, I cut the rails to enable a ramp element to be unbolted and removed.

[1] - Brass screws inserted into the baseboard surface at the end of each ramp element prior to tracklaying

 

This enabled work to commence on the underside electrics with the board turned over, giving easy access and getting gravity actually on my side for once :superman:. Of course, being simple 2 (or 3) track ramps, this is much less complicated than on my earlier, lower level, baseboards.  However, I'm sticking with my plug-in elements approach using small pieces of veroboard / stripboard and the same plug or screw type connectors. Being able to easily unplug the bus wire and/or dropper cables makes trouble-shooting any short circuits at a future date much easier.

 

Here is the underside of a single 2-track ramp element, with the bus wire installed and the track feed droppers connected. The 'grooves' cut into the underside of the end blocks of timber are to allow for the passage of the jumper cable between 2 adjacent ramp elements. Everything is screwed to the underside of the baseboard.

20191003_185104_resize.jpg.75566131b62d22e5dd071bba09eadf4f.jpg

 

This is the connector at the LH end:

20191003_185114_resize.jpg.3cb05d596dc375bab6a9a672274dfdb0.jpg

 

And this is the, very simple, connector at the RH end:

20191003_185124_resize.jpg.1cbe57cc82b2ea676b1cf269472fa799.jpg

 

That's one down, 15 to go ... :haha:

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Ramps - Much Wiring

 

I'm progressing with removal of the ramp elements and the installation of the wiring. Here are some connection parts fresh off the production line:

20191005_154757_resize.jpg.7dd8cc4fd2912ccadbcf83c160a4fb99.jpg

 

The green (large) connector provides for the bus wires, while the black (small) connector goes to the track dropper wires. Each one is screwed to the underside of the ramp element baseboard with four No.0x9.5mm  screws.

 

Edited by ISW
Screw length corrected from 12.7mm to 9.5mm.
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramps - Electrical Connections

 

Unfortunately, I've run out of No.0x9.5mm screws, which means I can't install any more cables / veroboards to the undersides of the ramp elements :ireful:.

 

So, in the meantime, I've been assembling the ramp electrical jumper cables:

20191006_114743_resize.jpg.87da932b9f5b49e251cc040dc1f5e33c.jpg

 

When installed, they look like this:

20191006_111131_resize.jpg.30494281aa9007d05c5e0b1b9b0230b5.jpg

 

You can see why I had to put a 'groove' in the underside of the ramp element baseboards to accept the jumper cable. You can also see the 4 (2 per ramp element end) sleeved M6 holes for the M6 holding down bolts.

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do like the modular design evolving here for the baseboards.

 

nice to know it can be taken apart and moved elsewhere quite easily if needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent build and step by step direction. Very helpful thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, No46 said:

Excellent build and step by step direction. Very helpful thank you.

46,

 

No problem, always pleased to help. Hopefully, the part(s) regarding the turnout operation by servo & micro-switch and control by MegaPoints Controller provides you with some foods for thought and/or ideas.

 

If you need any clarification(s), just let me know.

 

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramps - More Wiring

 

Hurrah, my order for No.0x9.5mm screws has turned up:clapping:. Now I can get on with attaching the remainder of the veroboard / stripboard connectors to the underside of the ramp elements and install the bus wires. Then I can re-install the ramps (for the final time :nono:?) and connect up the bus wires to the lower level electrics ready for some testing:senile:.

 

20191010_154856_resize.jpg.787615c6b2e5e0c17e498c5749b541a9.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ramps - Substation Completion

 

With all the wiring completed on the underside of the ramp elements, it was time to re-install them all. Each one was returned to its designated location (each one is labelled to avoid errors), the jumper cable fitted, and the ramp element bolted down to the support brackets. Much to my surprise there were no short circuits and each element was correctly powered. A few of the track joints were a tad misaligned at the joints between ramp elements :ireful:, but a quick waft of the soldering iron soon had them suitably adjusted :thankyou:.

 

You can see the bus wire and jumper cables installed on the underside of the ramps in the photo below. Just visible are the vertical M6 bolts protruding through the support brackets where they attach using 'tee' nuts.

IMG_20191011_160523_resize.jpg.0f614701d3ce5503f1b42bbe9ef8a31b.jpg

 

The 2-track ramp connection to the lower level is shown below, with the 3-track ramp rising upwards on the right. The 2-track ramp goes around the room and currently ends in the top-left of the photo. One more curved ramp element will see it connect to the upper baseboard.

IMG_20191011_160427_resize.jpg.ef1519f62e73222c98842dd1d36911a6.jpg

 

Meanwhile, the 3-track ramp goes around 3-walls of the room to end as shown below top-middle. It will also connect to the upper level baseboards with an odd shaped ramp element incorporating 2 turnouts. That might be a standalone ramp element or could be incorporated into the upper level baseboard, I'm not sure yet.

IMG_20191011_160305_resize.jpg.e28228609f76b48247165b1e03c2473d.jpg

 

Apart from testing / fiddling / adjusting, that brings to an end the construction of the ramp elements. The connection pieces to the upper level baseboards cannot be installed until there has been sufficient progress on the upper level baseboards themselves.

 

My thoughts are therefore no turning to finalising the design of the upper level baseboards :read:, but I still need to make some changes to the track layout before that can be done. Realistically, the upper level baseboard will not be built until next summer, but I have plenty of rolling stock requiring my attention to keep me occupied until then :rtfm:.

 

Edited by ISW
Spare photo removed.
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really pleased to have found this layout and I’m looking forward to seeing it develop. There are quite a few parallels with the development of my own layout (except you seem to have more time than me!). 
 

Really like the woodwork and especially the wiring - do I spot a fellow signal engineer?

 

Andy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, 61656 said:

Really pleased to have found this layout and I’m looking forward to seeing it develop. There are quite a few parallels with the development of my own layout (except you seem to have more time than me!). 
 

Really like the woodwork and especially the wiring - do I spot a fellow signal engineer?

 

Andy

Andy,

 

Glad you enjoyed a trawl through my postings. Nah, not a signalling engineer but I have worked with quite a few in my time. I'm retired now (hence more available time ...) but was a p/way engineer, mostly working on overseas projects.

 

My wiring is designed to meet a number of criteria:

  1. It has to be tidy, or else when I come back to look at it in a few years it will not make any sense.
  2. It is all labelled, to aid with troubleshooting.
  3. All the connections are socketed. This also helps with troubleshooting, as you can unplug elements until you home-in on the culprit. Soldered connections are okay, until you need to fix something.
  4. All fixings are screwed. I don't like nails, and hammering on the underside of a baseboard cannot be good for the track that's glued down! And, of course, these can be moved / adjusted easily.

I'm still working on the layout, but this has concentrated on the locomotives and rolling stock of late. I've still got a number of 'old' (~1980/1 ...) Lima / Hornby / Mainline / Airfix locomotives to adapt to DCC, and, where I can, retrofit some lighting. On the wagon / coach front I'm replacing all the couplings with Kadees. This can be easy (NEM pockets at the correct height) through to difficult (need to cut away the old coupling, glue in new plastic, & screw attach a Kadee).

 

Then, because many of the coaches are 'old', I will be attaching the correct decals to the coach ends and ensuring the coach numbers align with my 1976 coaching stock book and type of bogies fitted. Some locos also need the decal / renumbering treatment.

 

Are you using software to plan your model railway? I found this to be invaluable in resolving problems before any hardware was fixed down.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, ISW said:

 

My wiring is designed to meet a number of criteria:

  1. It has to be tidy, or else when I come back to look at it in a few years it will not make any sense.
  2. It is all labelled, to aid with troubleshooting.
  3. All the connections are socketed. This also helps with troubleshooting, as you can unplug elements until you home-in on the culprit. Soldered connections are okay, until you need to fix something.
  4. All fixings are screwed. I don't like nails, and hammering on the underside of a baseboard cannot be good for the track that's glued down! And, of course, these can be moved / adjusted easily.

 

 

Are you using software to plan your model railway? I found this to be invaluable in resolving problems before any hardware was fixed down.

 

I fully agree with all that. Wiring should be labelled and documented, as soon as it gets more complicated than just a pair of wires. 
 

I used various software packages for the first incarnation of my layout, but that became too much like work! For the current version I already had all the point work to reuse, so I used a 1:1 scale model of the layout to ensure all the woodwork is in the right place. 

 

I’m literally doing the first wiring runs, and I’m quite tempted to copy your cable clip idea (not least because I have thousands in stock). 
 

Andy

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 61656 said:

I fully agree with all that. Wiring should be labelled and documented, as soon as it gets more complicated than just a pair of wires. 
 

I used various software packages for the first incarnation of my layout, but that became too much like work! For the current version I already had all the point work to reuse, so I used a 1:1 scale model of the layout to ensure all the woodwork is in the right place. 

 

I’m literally doing the first wiring runs, and I’m quite tempted to copy your cable clip idea (not least because I have thousands in stock). 
 

Andy

Andy,

 

Having the space and the turnouts already available was clearly advantageous. Myself, I had neither. The 'railway room' was stacked with boxes and my trackwork possessions listed at one box of Peco Code-100 from ~1982! Software was the only way forward, and this did help immensely in getting the turnout operating mechanisms to miss the baseboard structure :thankyou:.

 

Copy away on the cable clip method. Just be aware that you need very small, but long, screws to attach them (unless you are using the original nails?). I bought them from ModelFixings.Com, and packs of 100 didn't last long:mad_mini:. I used their MF-ST31/100 No.0 Phillips Pan Head Self Tappers x9.5mm lg (pack of 100) : £7.60.

 

Congratulations at reaching 200 postings, by the way, and I'll post any questions about your layout over there.

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ISW said:

Congratulations at reaching 200 postings, by the way, and I'll post any questions about your layout over there.

 

In fairness 190 of them are just me correcting a previous post...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 61656 said:

In fairness 190 of them are just me correcting a previous post...

 

I do learn a lot of useful 'tricks' on this forum ...

 

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rolling Stock - Updating 1980s Purchases

 

With baseboard construction at a convenient stopping point, my attention has turned towards the rolling stock:senile:.

 

Way back in the early 1980s, just after I started work and was renting a bedsit, I began collecting locomotives and rolling stock for a 'future' model railway. At the time little did I know that I was destined to spend my working life as an expat! Those purchases ended up being stored in my parents attic for over 30-years.

 

As I have a emotional attachment to those purchases, I always planned that I would make use of them on Burton-on-Trent South. To 'bring them up-to-date' (well, as best as I can ...) the following work:rtfm: has been completed on them (they were all converted to DCC, with sockets where I could):

  1. Airfix Class 31, 31401
    1. Renumbered to 31206, and OHLE warning signs applied.
    2. Kadee couplings fitted.
    3. Cab interior fabricated from plasticard and installed.
    4. Bogies and underbody painted black, to cover the original 'brown'.
  2. Airfix Class 31, 31401
    1. Renumbered to 31287, and OHLE warning signs applied.
    2. Kadee couplings fitted.
    3. Cab interior fabricated from plasticard and installed.
    4. Bogies and underbody painted black, to cover the original 'brown'.
  3. Triang Hornby Class 25, 25241
    1. Renumbered to 25076, and OHLE warning signs applied.
    2. Kadee coupling fitted.
    3. Headcode / tail lights fitted (LEDs).
    4. Remotored with CD/DVD motor.
    5. All-wheel pickup fitted.
    6. Additional weight added (7x M6 square nuts).
  4. Triang Hornby Class 25, 25241
    1. Renumbered to 25206, and OHLE warning signs applied.
    2. Kadee coupling fitted.
    3. Headcode / tail lights fitted (LEDs).
    4. Remotored with CD/DVD motor.
    5. All-wheel pickup fitted.
    6. Additional weight added (7x M6 square nuts).
  5. Mainline Class 45, 45044
    1. Bogies modified with Craftsman kit to relocate the bufferbeam to the bogie from the body.
    2. Kadee couplings fitted.
    3. Headcode / tail lights fitted (LEDs).
    4. Cab interior fabricated from plasticard and installed.
    5. Additional pickups fitted.

Here they all are parked up in the lower baseboard stabling sidings.

20191116_105208_resize.jpg.b8b64c1f2228350f198503135c9d6fc8.jpg

 

These locomotives now perform quite well on the layout with good slow speed performance and good pickup (they pass through the insulfrog double-slips without problem). Yes, the motors are noisier than more modern products, but they are not intrusive, and are capable of pulling a 6 or 7-coach rake up the gradients. To my eye, the also 'look' quite presentable, although I do find the nose of the Peak 'wrong'.

 

On the whole, a nice cheap way to increase the locomotive fleet, but I think some detailing of the bufferbeams needs to be done though.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 25 and 31 both stand the test of time very well, but the peak doesn’t really compare that well to the current Bachmann one - at least being 70’s / early 80’s means you don’t need the sealed beam version. 
 

I do prefer the modern motors and drive, not to mention the simplicity of DCC ready, but looking at yours I question if the premium is worth it! 
 

Whatever you have done to the 31s windows certainly looks worth the effort. Are there any external differences between a 31/0 and a 31/4? Other than the jumper cables?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.