Burton-on-Trent South - Adding Buildings

[PJ10]

Good Evening,

 

Looks a very nice job. And some good tips. I'm contemplating using the same approach and have a few questions if I may.

 

You've managed to get the cuts perpendicular to baseboard. Did you use a flexi shaft? I think I'd struggle to get such neat cuts with my Dremel.

What size screws did you use and where did you get them from?

And finally what size iron would you recommend? I have a low powered iron that I've had for years that's great for electrical work but I think I'll need something a bit more powerful to get enough heat into the screws without melting the plastic sleepers. A heavier iron will also come in handy for my dabbling with O Gauge

 

Thanks,

 

PJ10

[ikcdab]

On 06/10/2020 at 21:32, ISW said:

How Long?

 

With the Ramp tracks completed, I wondered how long it would take for a locomotive to get from the top of the 2-track Ramp to the top of the 3-track Ramp. To answer this question a Bachmann Class 45 on light engine was pressed into service. Running down the 2-track Ramp, around the Lower Level, and back up the 3-track Ramp took around 2-minutes on a 'moderate' throttle. At 'full' throttle the distance was covered in around 1 minute 30 seconds.

 

Based on this, I'd estimate that once the Upper Level tracks are completed, a full circuit will take around 3-minutes to complete. The layout may be a 'tail chaser', but there will be a suitably long wait between passing trains.

 

Ian

you may have said it already in teh thread, so i apologise if ive missed it..but what gradients have you gone for? And how do the locos perform on them?

Ian C

[ISW]

On 29/10/2020 at 22:18, PJ10 said:

You've managed to get the cuts perpendicular to baseboard. Did you use a flexi shaft? I think I'd struggle to get such neat cuts with my Dremel.

PJ10,

Yes, I do use a flexishaft. My 'Dremel' is a cheap clone (I think it cost £21 from Homebase in 2017) Ozito branded machine. It's a wired device so a bit 'clumsy' but it has served me well. The cutting discs are the common ~20mm diameter ones. I did try a 50mm diameter disc but it was too unstable, although that might be my fault.

On 29/10/2020 at 22:18, PJ10 said:

What size screws did you use and where did you get them from?

I get all my small screws from ModelFixings (I'm just a customer). The link for the brass screws is:

http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm#Brass countersunk wood screws

I use the No.1 x 12.7 size. Yes, they are expensive but I've been pleased with the service I get from ModelFixings.

 

On 29/10/2020 at 22:18, PJ10 said:

And finally what size iron would you recommend?

Ah, hmmm. The soldering iron I use is a multi wattage (10w,20w,30w,40w,50w,60w) device I bought in ~2007 while I was working in Taiwan (therefore 110v). For most solder I use 30w, but the lead-free variety need 50w. I don't like the lead-free stuff at all. The tip is a very basic 6mm round metal type with a screw grommet to attach it. I tried the pointed tip but could get it to work at all. I use the basic chamferred tip that is 2.5mm wide. Details below (how's your Mandarin?):

 

The 'trick' I've found with soldering the brass screws to the underside of the rail is to leave 0.5~1.0mm gap between the two parts. Then heat the screw and rail foot from one side of the rail while feeding the solder in from the opposite side. That way you ensure the solder has flowed under the full width of the rail foot. I also brush both the brass screw and the rail foot with flux before soldering. 

 

I hope this all helps.

 

Ian

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[ISW]

13 minutes ago, ikcdab said:

you may have said it already in teh thread, so i apologise if ive missed it..but what gradients have you gone for? And how do the locos perform on them?

Ian C,

 

The 2-track ramp is ~1 in 48 and the 3-track ramp is ~1 in 40. The gradients were dictated by the height difference between the 2 levels (350mm), the size of the room, and the track layout. I don't think I could have made them any less steep.

 

All my locomotives are diesels, but fall into 2 camps; the old Lima / Airfix / Mainline / Hornby ones (~1981) and the later Bachmann / Heljan ones. The later all-axles-powered ones have no trouble with the ramps, even with a reasonable load. The former old ones are a mixed bag, but where they have traction tyres and enough weight they too have no problems with the ramps.

 

Ian W

 

[PJ10]

8 hours ago, ISW said:

PJ10,

Yes, I do use a flexishaft. My 'Dremel' is a cheap clone.......

 

I hope this all helps.

 

Ian

Morning Ian,

 

Fantastic. Thanks. Mandarin not great but I understand the points made.  And I agree about lead free. I avoid at all costs.

 

Thanks again,

 

PJ10

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, ISW said:

I get all my small screws from ModelFixings (I'm just a customer). The link for the brass screws is:

http://www.modelfixings.co.uk/self_tapping_screws.htm#Brass countersunk wood screws

I use the No.1 x 12.7 size. Yes, they are expensive but I've been pleased with the service I get from ModelFixings.

Another vote for No.1 12.7mm from Modelfixings, also very pleased with their service.  I use them in the scenic area. Off scene I just use No.4 12.7mm brass. 

9 hours ago, ISW said:

The 'trick' I've found with soldering the brass screws to the underside of the rail is to leave 0.5~1.0mm gap between the two parts. Then heat the screw and rail foot from one side of the rail while feeding the solder in from the opposite side. That way you ensure the solder has flowed under the full width of the rail foot. I also brush both the brass screw and the rail foot with flux before soldering. 

Likewise, this is the method that works for me.  I pre-tin screw and rail foot to get the same effect.

Paul.

[ikcdab]

9 hours ago, ISW said:

Ian C,

 

The 2-track ramp is ~1 in 48 and the 3-track ramp is ~1 in 40. The gradients were dictated by the height difference between the 2 levels (350mm), the size of the room, and the track layout. I don't think I could have made them any less steep.

 

All my locomotives are diesels, but fall into 2 camps; the old Lima / Airfix / Mainline / Hornby ones (~1981) and the later Bachmann / Heljan ones. The later all-axles-powered ones have no trouble with the ramps, even with a reasonable load. The former old ones are a mixed bag, but where they have traction tyres and enough weight they too have no problems with the ramps.

 

Ian W

 

Ian thanks. I am now reassured that my proposed 1 in 65 will be ok.

Ian C

[ISW]

Upper Level Baseboards - Strategy for Servo & MultiPanel Boards

 

As you may be aware, I'm using MegaPoints Controller Servo and MultiPanel boards to control the turnouts on the layout. The Lower Level has been complete for a while, where I used a single MultiPanel (with extension board) to control all 33 servos, and 2x 12-Servo and 3x 4-Servo boards to control the actual servos at the turnouts. The MultiPanel was enclosed in the single mimic panel for the whole of the Lower Level.

 

I have been looking at the final design for the Upper Level baseboards, where there are 53 point ends to control (turnouts + double/single slips) spread out over 7 of the 10 baseboards. I fairly quickly settled on a plan using 5x 12-Servo boards that didn't involve too many 'jumper cables' between baseboards. However, I wasn't sure 'how' I was going to control / operate them. I did toy with the idea of using one of the Servo boards to directly drive a mimic panel for the Brewery Sidings (10-turnouts), but that would have 'tied' the mimic panel to a single location due to the inordinate number of cables between the Servo board and the mimic panel (10x4 for the LEDs + 10x2 for the push buttons). Not exactly elegant.

 

So, I've decided to use 2 mimic panels for the Upper Level, one for the Leicester Line Junction + the MPD, and the other for the Station Area + the Brewery Sidings.

 

The drawing below details the scheme:

 

I've ended up with four jumper locations; 2 are single turnouts (3-wires) and 2 are triple turnouts (9-wires). Maybe I should be using standard 9-pin 'D' sockets and plugs for the 9-wire jumpers, not something I've tried before.

 

Ian

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[ISW]

Peco Code 100 3-Way Turnout SL-E99

 

I did a quick search online for how to wire a 3-way turnout but didn't come up with anything over and above what was included on the back of the packet. I always want to ensure that the intermediate / closure rails are properly / electrically connected, and do not rely on the metal 'wiper' on the tongue rails making electrical contact with the underside of the stock rails. As an aside, the 'wipers' on my 3-way turnouts didn't make any contact with the stock rails.

 

I noticed that Peco had made provision for adding additional jumper wires, but these missed the 2 'internal' tongue rails completely. I therefore added my electrical connections / jumper cables as shown below:

 

Underside view:

 

Topside view:

 

The orange wire was used to differentiate it from the green wire. The green wire goes to the lower frog only (in the topside view), whereas the orange wire goes to both the upper frog and the middle frog. It will hopefully help out when wiring the underside of the baseboard.

 

You may also note the 'beautification' measures take at the switch toe to make the timbers 'look' a bit more realistic.

 

Ian

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[ISW]

On 30/10/2020 at 12:30, ISW said:

Upper Level Baseboards - Strategy for Servo & MultiPanel Boards

 

As you may be aware, I'm using MegaPoints Controller Servo and MultiPanel boards to control the turnouts on the layout.

 

Incredible service from MegaPoints Controllers (I'm just a humble customer). I placed my order yesterday afternoon, and it was delivered today. Credit where credit is due, that's really good .

 

Ian

[ISW]

Upper Level Baseboards - Strategy for Power Districts

 

When I wired the Lower Level Baseboards I did create two Power Districts, one for each of the 'Up' and 'Down' tracks/storage sidings, with power bus cables passing round the entire Level. But the 2-Track Ramp and the 3-Track Ramp each have a single power feed from the related 'Up' and 'Down' District at the bottom of the Ramp. The baseboard segments of the Ramps themselves are simply 'daisy chained' together.

 

So, I could easily retrofit Short Circuit Protection (SCP) to the 2 Lower Level Baseboard Power Districts. However, if I added it to the Ramps, at their single feed point, then any short circuit on the Lower Level Baseboard would also trip the associated Ramp, but not vis-versa. Not very elegant. To power the ramps directly would involve a lot of extra power bus cables being installed under the baseboards. I really don't fancy that task.

 

It's with this in mind that I thought I'd better design the Power Districts for the Upper Level Baseboards, err, 'properly'. The design also needs to somehow address the 'shortcomings' of the Ramp power feeds at the same time.

 

And so here it is. A complete Power District design for the Upper Level Baseboards utilising 6 Power Districts:

• Up Track
• Down Track
• MPD
• Brewery Sidings
• 2-Track Ramp
• 3-Track Ramp

 

With the Upper Level Baseboards now providing power to the 2-Track and 3-Track Ramps, I can put SCP on those without problem. I'll now simply remove the 2 jumper cable feeds at the bottom of the Ramps. Easy.

 

I've also incorporated an 'approximate' location for each of the SCP devices which, you may notice are MERG Kit #57. More on those later ...

 

Ian

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[5BarVT]

5 hours ago, ISW said:

MERG Kit #57. More on those later ...

Wasn’t aware of those (until now).  I think I’ll be getting some.

Thank you.

Paul.

[ISW]

2 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

Wasn’t aware of those (until now).  I think I’ll be getting some.

Paul,

 

Just be aware that you have to be a member of MERG, or know someone who is who can then order it for you. I am in that latter camp ... 

 

Ian

[5BarVT]

I’m in the former so I’ve already seen the circuit diagram and instructions.  Already thinking how I can use the functionality!  But thanks for saying anyway.

Paul.

[ISW]

SetTrack Turnouts - Beautification

 

On the Brewery Sidings of the Layout (Upper Level Baseboards E/F/G) I have used #2 SetTrack turnouts, not only because of their geometry that helped make it all fit, but also because they are fairly prototypical of private owner sidings.

 

Despite this, there is no reason why they can't at least 'look' a bit better than they do straight-out-of-the-packet. I've therefore set to and made some beautifications to my SetTrack turnouts as below. Beautified on the Left, packet fresh on the Right:

 

Yes, it's only a subtle difference to the timbering, but it will improve the look of the finished layout.

 

The next task is to convert them to electrofrog wiring ... 

 

Ian

 

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[ISW]

SetTrack Turnouts - Electrofrogification

 

Having made the SetTrack turnouts 'look' a bit better, it was time to make them 'operate' a bit better by converting them to close-to-electrofrog specification.

 

Firstly, the internal intermediate rails were cut to electrically isolate the crossing / frog:

 

Next, the sleeper webbing was cut to expose the underside of the rails and solder added to the underside of the rails:

 

And finally, feed / jumper cables (red & black) were added to the intermediate rails and a feed / jumper cable (green) added to provide the feed to the crossing / frog:

 

The wiring and arrangement of the 'servo / microswitch' combination will now be just the same as for all the electrofrog turnouts on the layout. Thus I can keep my modular electrical system on all the turnouts. Yes, the nose of the crossing is not electrified, but the length of unpowered rail is quite minimal. And, of course, the changes to the wiring means that the whole nose 'can' be made an integral electrical part of the crossing, at a later stage, if I so choose.

 

Ian

Edited March 31, 2022 by ISW
photos re-uploaded

[47137]

Ian,

 

Do remember, when you come to install the servo mechanisms, the Setrack turnout needs a longer throw than a Streamline one - about a third more. So if the usual baseboard is 12 mm thick, adding a 4 mm shim between U channel and baseboard will add the extra movement on the tip of the piano wire.

 

- Richard.

[ISW]

8 hours ago, 47137 said:

the Setrack turnout needs a longer throw than a Streamline one

Richard,

 

That's a new one on me. But are you sure?

 

I had a look and compared my Peco #2 SetTrack (ST-240) turnouts with a Peco medium radius ElectroFrog one (SL-E96) and the toe opening (the gap between the stock and tongue rails) 'looks' the same. A quick wizz with the ruler agreed, with both giving a figure of ~3.5mm.

 

Mind you, I'll still probably need the shim on the Upper Level baseboards as they are 9mm plywood, whereas the Lower Level was 12mm plywood.

 

Ian

[47137]

Hang on. I was thinking of Peco code 75 turnouts, these have a gap of about 2.3 mm. The gap on a code 100 turnout is about 3 mm, for Setrack and Streamline.

 

Sorry for confusing you.

 

I ended up with a total roadbed thickness of about 17 mm (6.3 + 6.3 + 4 mm) to get my Setrack turnout to throw using the default end stops on the Megapoints servo controller. Having made all this effort, I still went back and adjusted the end stops to add a smidgen of extra tension onto the piano wire.

 

- Richard.

 

 

[ISW]

2 hours ago, 47137 said:

Sorry for confusing you.

Richard,

 

No problem. It was probably a good idea to check that my SetTrack and StreamLine turnouts actually had the same switch movement!

 

2 hours ago, 47137 said:

I ended up with a total roadbed thickness of about 17 mm (6.3 + 6.3 + 4 mm) to get my Setrack turnout to throw using the default end stops on the Megapoints servo controller.

I'll have to see how this works for me. My only knowledge, at present, is that the MegaPoints aluminium channel method works okay for me with 12mm plywood, without any shims. It'll be a while until I'm at the point of wiring the underside of my first Upper Level baseboard (9mm plywood), at which point I can check out the problems / issues / solutions required. At least I still have some 5mm or 6mm plywood offcuts that I can use to make shims.

 

Ian

[ISW]

Upper Level Baseboards - MPD

 

Before I has a month off tracklaying, I managed to complete the track for the MPD. It's a 4-track affair with a bypass track, 2 fuelling / inspection tracks, and a fuel storage / stabling siding track. The latter is split into 2 parts to both reflect the reality of the real arrangement and to address the issue of 3 baseboards coming together at a point in the line of those tracks.

 

 

The MPD is single ended, and terminates in another Stabling Siding and a Headshunt track:

 

 

I really had no choice but to use 3-way turnouts to best make use of the available space and to try and emulate the actual depot layout. At least I avoided SetTrack turnouts ...

 

Ian

[ISW]

Upper Level Baseboards - Brewery Complex

 

After completing the MPD I moved onto the final section of the Upper Level baseboards, the Brewery Complex. This consists of a pair of Exchange Sidings (with Headshunt) and a pair of Brewery tracks joining two Brewery Areas located either side of the Mainline extending across Baseboards E, F, G, & H. Hence the Brewery tracks pass under the Mainline, an arrangement that existed in real life, although my arrangement is more dictated by the physical space on the baseboards.

 

This first view is from the Mainlines, where the Brewery Tracks pass under the Mainline. Note the small stack of track to the left, that's all the track I had to spare:

 

This second view shows the two underbridges on the Mainline for Moor Street and the Brewery Tracks:

 

This final view shows the second Brewery Area on the other side of the Mainline:

 

And with that I'm finally at the end of the Upper Level baseboard tracklaying. I can't run any trains though as the rails are all cut at the baseboard joints. That'll have to wait until the completion of the next major task - baseboard wiring.

 

Ian

[ISW]

Upper Level Baseboards - Commenced Wiring

 

A very basic start has no been made on the underside wiring of the Upper Level baseboards. To guide myself in gently I started with Baseboard D that has no turnouts. Yes, I did wire all the Lower Level baseboards previously, but that was a couple of years back and I need to get back into the swing of things.

 

One major difference this time is that I'll have quite a few power districts on the Upper Level (the Lower Level has just two) and so the number of bus cables has increased considerably. Some baseboards, including Baseboard D need 7 bus cables. The reasons why are covered in an earlier posting.

 

Here is the underside of Baseboard D with some of the wiring installed and thoroughly labelled.

 

I still have to install the sockets for the jumper cables to/from the adjacent baseboards, but those will be added once I have made the necessary purchase, probably in early January 2021. Then I can add in the pass-through cable for the MegaPoints network.

 

[shanks522]

Only just discovered your layout, absolutely fantastic work. Look forward to more.

 

Graham. 

[ISW]

13 hours ago, shanks522 said:

Only just discovered your layout, absolutely fantastic work. Look forward to more.

 

Graham. 

Graham,

 

That's very kind of you. I try to post 'reasonably' frequently, but can't promise ... If you enjoy wiring, there'll be quite a bit of that for the coming months.

 

Ian