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Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement


Hattons Dave
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3 hours ago, truffy said:

 

Leaving aside the cost for the moment, isn't sticking some things onto other things pretty much a definition of 'modelling'?

 

2 hours ago, Johnfromoz said:

It would surely be a common sense and low cost move for Hattons to include spares within their detail pack. That was the only suggestion I was making!! Lol.

 

Depends upon an individual's personal viewpoint I guess... modelling... or repair...?  Either way, all of this sounds like a bit of a handbag fight and rather pointless?

 

On a practical note however, I'd agree with the solution above, as I'm fine with accepting that any moving parts are always going to be susceptible to working loose over time, in which case - for a hi-spec model that I would imagine is to be part of Hatton's range for the foreseeable future - it would seem only reasonable to make these vulnerable parts available in the form of spares that may be purchased if/when required?  What will be a bit naff is if the only future remedy would be to purchase a complete new model for the sake of a comparatively low-cost spare part...

 

Otherwise quite a stunning model, thus far.

 

Best

Al

 

 

 

Edited by YesTor
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For me, said by several above in various guises, the only 'change' required is changing the axles - giving the AB's more to purchase onto, and align correctly - whether the end is serrated, threaded or just plain, it'll stay as required.

 

If the bogie sides are attached after insertion of the axles, this may be a limiting factor, but perhaps not - for me, I'd be talking about adding ~1.5mm to each end - 3mm total - of the axles.

 

Al.

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There's been one reply on the DD stating they've had no such problems with theirs 'so far' .... somebody said.

 

With reference to a question a little earlier, for the one problematic AB I had, I VERY SLIGHTLY opened up the hole, and once I got it aligned, there was no wobble any more and it runs perfectly ever since.

The slight 'wobble' I had was obviously the AB on the hole, rotating on the axle - the bogies are perfect otherwise.

 

Al.

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On 07/01/2020 at 21:50, IamDaniel said:

Hiya @Hattons Dave, I have 66743 on order (pre-ordered before the Nov 15 cut-off). Any idea when it is likely to arrive, please? The website just says 'Jan'.

 

Cheers!

 

Hello Daniel,

 

Owing to some unavoidable delays in the shipping process, we have provided an updated delivery schedule on our website. We’re now expecting all versions of the models ending 033 to 037 arrive with us around the end of February/early March. 

See the full delivery schedule, here: http://bit.ly/38fo4qn

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Dave

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42 minutes ago, stock_2007 said:

I'm not sure how long a delay has to be before its 'bad' I'm really glad I never sold my Bachmann 66's on

 

Accurascale have delayed the JSAs by around 5 months! Worse than this 66 and to be honest I could do with them more than the loco.

 

Having said that it depends on how long a project has been followed as to how late it is to an extent. I only really pay attention to lead times once we get to the back end of the project where shipping times are being discussed, as most of the time the "manufacturers" are in the hands of the factories in China doing the tooling correctly, modifying it in a timely manner, and then making and shipping the stuff on time.

 

A lot of things not 100% in the control of the company commissioning the work, as I would expect they'll change their timings to suit the people with the biggest sticks, probably none of which are UK based model railway companies.

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It's getting to the point where Manufacturers should maybe consider not predicting delivery times until the product is literally in their warehouses or entering the English Channel, as they seem to have little control on the development, manufacturing and shipping timetable. For those who don't get riled by delays will be unaffected.... For those who get irritated by delays, the expectation will be more realistic. Suppose it doesn't help budgeting plans though.

 

The Hatton's 66 was originally estimated for March 2019. However some manufacturers are literally years out with their predicted delivery promises.

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2 hours ago, Hattons Dave said:

 

Hello Daniel,

 

Owing to some unavoidable delays in the shipping process, we have provided an updated delivery schedule on our website. We’re now expecting all versions of the models ending 033 to 037 arrive with us around the end of February/early March. 

See the full delivery schedule, here: http://bit.ly/38fo4qn

 

I hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

Dave

Thanks for the update Dave, looks live I have another couple of months to save for the Royal Scotsman pair. 

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1 hour ago, Winter123 said:

It's getting to the point where Manufacturers should maybe consider not predicting delivery times until the product is literally in their warehouses or entering the English Channel, as they seem to have little control on the development, manufacturing and shipping timetable. For those who don't get riled by delays will be unaffected.... For those who get irritated by delays, the expectation will be more realistic. Suppose it doesn't help budgeting plans though.

 

The Hatton's 66 was originally estimated for March 2019. However some manufacturers are literally years out with their predicted delivery promises.

 

I expect the problem is half the time people will be "ambitious" with their estimations of delivery to get the business. I don't mean the people we buy the model off, but the people who do the tooling and make the model overseas.

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2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I expect the problem is half the time people will be "ambitious" with their estimations of delivery to get the business. I don't mean the people we buy the model off, but the people who do the tooling and make the model overseas.

Theres only so many factories in China.. its highly probable a delay to one model can impact several UK commissioner's as that delay rattles down the queue.

Hattons are doing A LOT of class 66’s.. its certainly going to eat a good amount of factory time.

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I am resigned to 'I will get mine when it comes to the door'. I am glad Hattons are being proactive in showing how to refit the axle box covers, however given that it is a moving part that can come off, and inevitably some will get lost I wonder if Dave could reassure us that there will be spares available?

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3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I expect the problem is half the time people will be "ambitious" with their estimations of delivery to get the business. I don't mean the people we buy the model off, but the people who do the tooling and make the model overseas.

I don’t think estimates  are ambitious in order to get business. It strikes me as far more likely that estimates just don’t allow for the unforeseen. Because delays are unforeseen, planners have no idea how long they’ll be.

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3 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I don’t think estimates  are ambitious in order to get business. It strikes me as far more likely that estimates just don’t allow for the unforeseen. Because delays are unforeseen, planners have no idea how long they’ll be.

 

I think both things are actually one and the same. My thoughts below, not statements of fact:

 

A) the actual manufacturer in China will win and lose work on lead time, not just on lead time but it's a massive factor. So they are probably ambitious with what they say as it's either win the work or not. Time to sales for the commissioner is so important from both a cash flow perspective and also to in terms of competitive edge it has to be a big factor.

 

B) the commissioner will want to generate as much sales interest and excitement for their new model. Saying "3 years with a years contingency" isn't going to get people excited. They need to give the time it will be if everything goes to plan to get as much money in up front (in case of ones where there are deposits or payments up front) or to get as much money in straight away when it does arrive. If all of a sudden stuff comes in 6 months early people either won't have the money ready or the stuff won't be pre ordered (as they thought they had 6 months) so will sit around for a while either while people save up or while it gets discounted or both. Neither are good for sales/revenue.

 

Whereas if the bare minimum lead time is stated, the manufacturers may win work they wouldn't otherwise and also the commissioners at least have people ready with their money when it comes, on time or not.

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Hattons had been pretty close on this one - Christmas delivery for the initial batch.

 

I think we may suspect that additional measures may be in progress to avoid a repeat of the 'axlebox issue' which may have delayed the second batch - could be wrong.

It does appear that they are ensuring the best possible model - which it most definitely is.

 

The difference is not like comparing the Hornby Princess of the 60's with that of today, but there are obvious improvements over the Bachmann visually - hence why I sold mine.

 

Al.

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31 minutes ago, No Decorum said:

I don’t think estimates  are ambitious in order to get business. It strikes me as far more likely that estimates just don’t allow for the unforeseen. Because delays are unforeseen, planners have no idea how long they’ll be.


In project management you have known unknowns and unknown unknowns. If I were a manufacturer I would be building a set if metrics for the known unknown of China delays. It isn’t rocket science. 
 

Roy

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19 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:


In project management you have known unknowns and unknown unknowns. If I were a manufacturer I would be building a set if metrics for the known unknown of China delays. It isn’t rocket science. 
 

Roy

 

Yes but what is the better outcome from a business perspective? Early or late? Whilst customers will get annoyed at late a lot will be annoyed at early too, rightly or wrongly.

 

Not many people will cancel orders because of lateness but lots would be frustrated at things turning up early when they don't have the money yet and have to cancel and then they sit on shelves until they sell.

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8 hours ago, stock_2007 said:

I'm not sure how long a delay has to be before its 'bad' I'm really glad I never sold my Bachmann 66's on

 

Fair enough, each to his own, although on the other hand I'm more than pleased that I did move all of my Bachmann 66s on... while the resale value was still high.  I can survive a couple of extra months without a model. 

 

 

Edited by YesTor
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1 hour ago, YesTor said:

 

Fair enough, each to his own, although on the other hand I'm more than pleased that I did move all of my Bachmann 66s on... while the resale value was still high.  I can survive a couple of extra months without a model. 

 

 

 

Yep, I only have 66721 and 66779 both of which for now at least should hold value. Until Hattons get their hands on them that is!

 

I sold three non celebs off at similar to what I paid for them.

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2 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yes but what is the better outcome from a business perspective? Early or late? Whilst customers will get annoyed at late a lot will be annoyed at early too, rightly or wrongly.

 

Not many people will cancel orders because of lateness but lots would be frustrated at things turning up early when they don't have the money yet and have to cancel and then they sit on shelves until they sell.


You miss the point, through use of metrics (which can be very powerful) you aim to have a realistic date so that delivery is neither early, nor late. As for people cancelling if items arrive early, as a business you would have to weigh up expected numbers cancelling for early v late and see where the biggest risk is. Also, who says you have to cancel if it arrives early? Nothing would stop somebody from saying the order could be honoured until the expected date if they do arrive early. 
 

Roy

Edited by Roy Langridge
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7 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:


You miss the point, through use of metrics (which can be very powerful) you aim to have a realistic date so that delivery is neither early, nor late. As for people cancelling if items arrive early, as a business you would have to weigh up expected numbers cancelling for early v late and see where the biggest risk is. Also, who says you have to cancel if it arrives early? Nothing would stop somebody from saying the order could be honoured until the expected date if they do arrive early. 
 

Roy

 

I don't think I am missing any point to be honest. I am saying that the dates they give should be based on some element of truth (or what China tells them should I say) but I cannot see a reason why they would build in a fudge factor to try and make the times accurate, as there wouldn't be any accuracy would there? Yes it's a known unknown, as in its fairly likely to happen, but the extent of it is a stab in the dark (because there are so many reasons it can happen) so other than planning for the worst internally and planning for the best externally I can't see any other sensible thing to do. And the customer taking it with a pinch of salt which I think we all do.

 

The exact point I am making is the next step on from what you are saying, pros and cons of early/late. Hardly anyone will cancel from a delay (within reason), they want the product and they were already willing to wait for it. People will cancel because it's early and they can't afford it, as why would the manufacturers hold it and keep their money tied up (which they'll want back ASAP) for somebody to maybe buy in 6 month's time when the fake date was at the expense of being able to market/distribute it there and then? If it doesn't sell the person who cancelled because they didn't have the money would probably buy it anyway when they have the money.

 

I think if the manufacturers had their way they would sell everything out on pre order and nothing would go on the shelves. Money in straight away for what was probably a big outlay several months ago. Giving optimistic dates will help that more than giving late dates will IMO.

 

I'm pretty sure if Accurascale came out now and said "37s and 55s due in next month instead of Q4" because they had added in a time factor which never happened there would be a lot of people wondering what to do. Whether that means them cancelling with Accurascale (who will have wanted a deposit), or something else such as from Hornby, Bachmann or Hattons where deposits maybe weren't needed either way it's not good for the industry as it leads to stocked shelves, worsened cash flow and possibly discounting. Better for the consumer in the short term but in the long term?

 

So in short whilst it's a nuisance from the buyers perspective I can't see it changing and aren't sure it should for the greater good of the industry. If it's late all we have to do is wait and moan, getting the date wrong with the stuff coming early could have a knock on effect.

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Interestingly I've just picked a random YouTube unboxing video to watch to see whether when my sound fitted 66957 arrives (hopefully some time during this month) there is anything to physically avoid doing whilst unboxing it that might damage the model.

 

I'm not going to add the link but after unboxing his new EWS version the reviewer then started comparing it against his existing Bachman version. He was really slating the colour of the older model -v- his new one. I fully appreciate all the vagaries of lighting mentioned earlier in this thread but taking his YouTube video as the exemplar the older Bachman one, under the lighting used, to my eyes looks nearer to right - the converse of his view!

 

I've subsequently checked my memory against some YouTube videos of the prototype and I can see nothing to make me change my opinion that, at least as presented in his video, Bachman's EWS livery is a closer match contradicting his voiced statements. I guess rather like the "what colour do you see" images of the dress and the trainer that circulate regularly on social media when it comes to interpreting colours it really does depend on whether you are right or left sided when it comes to the wiring of your brain. 

 

Edited by john new
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