Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, YesTor said: Unfortunately, yes. Frustrating really as to why this was completely ignored, the font for EWS and 66XXX clearly of the same style, weight etc... I think 'weight' is a very strange way to describe it. My initial thought when I saw you describe it that way was that you felt the paint itself was slightly too light in colour or see-through. Your photos do make the colour seem slightly light but lighting conditions can cause this so I'll not comment on that. Indoor lighting if often too warm & although modern cameras are good at correcting it, they still look different to photos taken in sunlight. What does look a bit out is the width of the text. EWS itself looks a little too wide, particularly noticeable on the W & S. This is creating an illusion that the typeface is too wide, but I am not sure this is the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman1 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I agree with Yes Tor that the letter width on the EWS is too narrow when compared to the real thing. I am currently holding off buying one until I see one in the flesh. I plan to keep all my Bachy machines as they run incredibly reliably and handle the vigour of exhibition handling but would like Hattons versions for running on my home layout. Has anyone a comparison photo of a Bachy EWS machine and the Hattons version? Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted January 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: I think 'weight' is a very strange way to describe it. My initial thought when I saw you describe it that way was that you felt the paint itself was slightly too light in colour or see-through. Your photos do make the colour seem slightly light but lighting conditions can cause this so I'll not comment on that. Indoor lighting if often too warm & although modern cameras are good at correcting it, they still look different to photos taken in sunlight. What does look a bit out is the width of the text. EWS itself looks a little too wide, particularly noticeable on the W & S. This is creating an illusion that the typeface is too wide, but I am not sure this is the case. Weight is the correct typographical term, undoubtedly dating back to the days when type comprised solid pieces to make up the individual letters. 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Just when your wondering where your loco is? You can always rely on somebody starting on about a livery not being just right. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 14 minutes ago, stock_2007 said: Just when your wondering where your loco is? You can always rely on somebody starting on about a livery not being just right. Several years ago, I was taught at work that regional managers would always find something wrong when doing their visit/inspection. If it was not something obvious, they would get fussy. I feel some are this way when scrutinising models. 2 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2020 13 hours ago, TomScrut said: No need to patronise me on what metrics are. They are a prediction and therefore to an extent are a "fudge factor". Definition of fudge factor according to Google: "a figure included in a calculation to account for some unquantified but significant phenomenon or to ensure a desired result." Regardless of how one may try to quantify an amount of time it takes to make something using metrics, it is only improving the estimate and therefore it is still unquantified. So the way I see it it's a fudge factor albeit an educated one. Anyway, you're going on about metrics and not responding to my point that when it comes to giving a date to customers (in this case) it is in my opinion probably more beneficial to not account for problems and to give an ideal world date. The downsides of something coming early outweigh those of it coming late. Not trying to patronise. The point of metrics is to make things quantifiable, and hence not a fudge factor. As to your later point re early/late , I believe I did respond. Personally, I think more people would cancel through late delivery than through early delivery. Given the former is not common, I guess neither of us has statistics in which to make a statement on the basis of fact. Roy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 44 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said: Several years ago, I was taught at work that regional managers would always find something wrong when doing their visit/inspection. If it was not something obvious, they would get fussy. I feel some are this way when scrutinising models. Are you saying that Hattons may have made the text deliberately too wide to distract the punter from looking at the dimensions, chassis and ... rotating axleboxes? !! Al. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 50 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: Not trying to patronise. The point of metrics is to make things quantifiable, and hence not a fudge factor. As to your later point re early/late , I believe I did respond. Personally, I think more people would cancel through late delivery than through early delivery. Given the former is not common, I guess neither of us has statistics in which to make a statement on the basis of fact. Roy Fair dos, and I do accept your point about there being very little data (unfortunately) on early arrivals. I do see quite a few posts either on here or Facebook with "gives me time to save up" but don't see many with "I'm cancelling now it's delayed" so that's what I was going off. But obviously I don't have any figures! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, stock_2007 said: Just when your wondering where your loco is? You can always rely on somebody starting on about a livery not being just right. Letters being too narrow, and cab doors the wrong colour is kinda closer to a country mile out I think . Someone dropped the ball in checking this. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Yes I'm really worried "is my loco the right shade of pink"....sorry but come on its all a little late to change the livery now 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
truffy Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, stock_2007 said: its all a little late to change the livery now Not disagreeing with you, but to those of whom it matters, it may not be too late to cancel, and certainly not too late to not place an order in the first place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted January 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2020 If the livery is wrong then why not spray it Brunswick green, line it out, give it the next number in the 66xx series and run it as a special. Hat, coat, gone fast to Route 66. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 4 hours ago, atom3624 said: Are you saying that Hattons may have made the text deliberately too wide to distract the punter from looking at the dimensions, chassis and ... rotating axleboxes? !! Al. No. Just that no matter how good they make the model, some will find fault with it. The font does look too wide when compared with a photo of the real thing, but I doubt I would have noticed otherwise. Most of us already put up with a huge compromise which is OO. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 26 minutes ago, stock_2007 said: Yes I'm really worried "is my loco the right shade of pink"....sorry but come on its all a little late to change the livery now In fairness it looks right on the photos of the painted shell. But will the font be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said: No. Just that no matter how good they make the model, some will find fault with it. Are you trying to say that if it was possible to shrink a real 66 down to 4mm scale somebody would STILL find fault with it? Oh there is no need to answer because I think we all KNOW the answer to that one! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 How could you get inside to fire it up and drive it? Reckon the body would bend as well when picking it up!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, mevaman1 said: I am currently holding off buying one until I see one in the flesh. I plan to keep all my Bachy machines as they run incredibly reliably and handle the vigour of exhibition handling but would like Hattons versions for running on my home layout. Has anyone a comparison photo of a Bachy EWS machine and the Hattons version? Good point. Fortunately, my models aren't subjected to the rigours of exhibition handling. To be honest, I'd say that whilst this might well be the heftiest locomotive in terms of weight, chassis construction etc, it is also undoubtedly the most delicate. I must emphasise though that this latter point is by no means a criticism, in fact it is more testament to the sheer wealth of detail that is present on the model, especially below the solebar, which of course is perhaps the most characteristic part of the Class 66 design, and in my view this has been captured incredibly well; and not to forget the very fine bodyside grilles, which really are superb. But yeah, in short, this sure ain't no model for the ham-fisted. With regard to longer-term reliability, well, who can say? As with anything new, I guess that only time will tell. Unfortunately, I literally sold the last of my Bachmann 66s only a few days ago, so sadly I am no longer able to photograph the two side-by-side. However, my personal observations were that both could be happily ran together without the feeling of either looking 'alien' etc. I'm a little annoyed with myself for not taking any comparison photos actually, oh well. To add, I'd imagine that the workhorse 'shed' is actually quite a challenge from a design perspective to translate into model form, as quite a lot of detail actually transcends between body and solebar/underframe - essentially right across the main joining of the two separating sections of any model locomotive. I've made various attempts in the past - some more successful than others - to improve the Bachmann model in this area, and from personal experience the most challenging parts have been the solebar and solebar-to-body areas. What does strike me though, is that the Hattons 66 really begins to feel more like a carefully engineered piece of kit, as opposed to simply a plastic train containing a motor, so in this respect certainly feels to raise the bar somewhat. That's not to excuse the livery glitches, as really these should have been avoidable, but then perhaps that's more a consequence of attempting to approve thirty-seven different versions all at one time, quite a feat for anyone I would imagine? If there are issues to resolve - as there often seems to be with the initial run of any model - then hopefully Hattons will address those, as I'm pretty sure that if they do this will be a benchmark diesel model for many, myself included. cheers Al Edited January 16, 2020 by YesTor 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 5 hours ago, stock_2007 said: Yes I'm really worried "is my loco the right shade of pink"....sorry but come on its all a little late to change the livery now There is no right shade of pink... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinzaboy Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Hi As regards the discussion about the size and weight of numbers/letters on the side of EWS 66005 here is my photo of the loco and I think that the EWS letters are slightly thinner than the numerals. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 I'd say the '5' is thicker than the first '6' ... or basically it's a matter of perspective ... Making allowances for distance - pretty long locomotive, I'd say that photo's inconclusive at best, and no difference at worst. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 16, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: Several years ago, I was taught at work that regional managers would always find something wrong when doing their visit/inspection. If it was not something obvious, they would get fussy. I feel some are this way when scrutinising models. In my developer days I used to deliberately leave an error somewhere in a dataset..then show the results to the customer, if they didnt spot it, I would draw their attention to it, for later correction. That way I was in the best position of influence of it still, but the customer went away feeling confident they had reviewed the work and done their QA. Everyone went away happy... it was reassuring. Someone is always going to find a fault, no matter how good you think you've done it. The trick is to influence people, not control them. Theres no such thing as perfection and in reality you control little... If you try to be perfect someone will try to pull you down. same applies to models. The thing is the black swan may still be there, or may not appear at all... but you didn't know it before and you still don't know after, but at least everyone goes away and sleeps ok at night not worrying about it. Edited January 16, 2020 by adb968008 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stock_2007 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 2 hours ago, rob D2 said: There is no right shade of pink... sorry I should have said my none green Freightliner loco 'One' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steadfast Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Gill Sans, in the bold weight is a perfect match for EWS text and numbers. How do I know? I've traced enough photos of the real things to make decals! I can't remember if I had to adjust the letter spacing or not (don't think I did from memory) but on the prototype both EWS and the number are the same typeface and the same weight. If we're being really picky, not all 66s have the orange cantrail and gold bodyside stripe at the same height, this is noticeable of the hood section has gone back onto a different loco. Also of the same track, the grey roof on DB red locos finishes in a different place on the Stoke Marcroft repaints to the Toton ones. Jo Edited January 17, 2020 by Steadfast 1 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 hours ago, adb968008 said: Someone is always going to find a fault, no matter how good you think you've done it. same applies to models. Should be capital "s". 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 16/01/2020 at 03:27, YesTor said: Unfortunately, yes. Frustrating really as to why this was completely ignored, the font for EWS and 66XXX clearly of the same style, weight etc... (PS... Dave, please, please, pleeeeease sort out the EWS fonts for the next run...?!) But according to some people, having to touch up is part of "modelling" and so complaints aren't valid in their eyes... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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