Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Vecchio]

On 30/01/2020 at 22:35, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

Just out of interest for the people who received their Hattons 66s around Christmas time and had some issues with the wheels not sitting at the same height and thus wobbling on the track, has this issue ironed itself out or have you had to return the model to Hattons? 

 

Also for those who received their 66s with the axel boxes lose in the box or for those who's axel boxes came off during running did you manage to refit them back onto the loco and get them rotating again? If so did you follow the advice that Hattons gave or use your own method? 

 

Lastly, has anyone as yet bought a standard 66 and fitted their own DCC Decoder? If so did you manage to remove and refit the body without breaking/damaging the model? 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

I did, it came back a few days later, it is a complete replacement (I can see it as I had soldered my speaker to the speaker pads - and the replacement loco didn't have anything soldered to the pads) 

It still wobbles, less than before but it looks like this is quite a widespread problem. 2 of the axle boxes show white residue of cyanoacrylate, so something has been done on that one. 

 

I am not completely happy, I expect a new loco to run without wobbles or losing axle boxes. The rotation feature is a gimmick anyway as if the loco is 2 feet away you cannot see if the axleboxes rotate or not.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

1 minute ago, Vecchio said:

I did, it came back a few days later, it is a complete replacement (I can see it as I had soldered my speaker to the speaker pads - and the replacement loco didn't have anything soldered to the pads) 

It still wobbles, less than before but it looks like this is quite a widespread problem. 2 of the axle boxes show white residue of cyanoacrylate, so something has been done on that one. 

 

I am not completely happy, I expect a new loco to run without wobbles or losing axle boxes. The rotation feature is a gimmick anyway as if the loco is 2 feet away you cannot see if the axleboxes rotate or not.

 

Thank you for the reply and for the info. I really appreciate it. 

 

I'm just asking because I planned to buy a few of the Freightliner 66s, but if I did that I would be paying over several hundreds of pounds and for that money I wouldn't want any issues with the running/movement of the locos. I could potentially overlook axel boxes having fallen off in transit or falling off during running but if the locos are wobbling which could potentially cause derailments and damage the loco then I am hesitant in buying them. 

 

Has either the original 66 or the new replacement 66 you now have become derailed because of the wobble? With regards to the axel boxes and the loco wobbling, it was suggested by another member on the forum that the loco may be wobbling when running due to the axel boxes been refitted by customers? Could you confirm if you refitted any of the axel boxes onto either of your 66s or was the wobble already present without refitting any axel boxes that had fallen off? 

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[TomScrut]

23 hours ago, atom3624 said:

If the speed differential exists but is minimal, loading a locomotive will always slow it a little, so if another is slightly faster, it could also be that the latter takes more of the load, the former runs close to 'running light' when double headed.

 

Al.

 

If the speed differential is very small then yes it will act like loading.

 

The issue is that the speed differential doesn't drive back through the worm gear into the motor, so it will make the teeth of the gear meshing with the worm press against the groove on the worm, in a similar way to if you try pushing the loco by hand, but the difference being that as the worm is moving it will increase wear or cause wheel slip.

 

I have read it in plenty of places to ensure speed matching when running in consist, might be in ESU decoder manuals (which are loads better than most other decoder manuals by the way) I have seen it?

 

My 66s and 37s it was as little as changing the speed CVs by 1 to stop the odd bit of slip or increased noise.

 

Also for what it's worth, I set my locos up for scale speed anyway (as the Z21 app gives speeds in mph) so it means when running a consist there is very little if any tweaking to do

Edited February 2, 2020 by TomScrut

[atom3624]

This also assumes that once matched, the wear - either bedding in or 'wearing out' - will be consistent, which I'm certain it won't be.

One other 'variable' will be the consistency of strength of the brush contact spring - if a brushed motor, which most still are.

 

I have some 'background' in highly tuned brushed R/C car motors, so am quite familiar with this aspect as well.

 

I definitely agree that the better you can match locomotives' power characteristics, the better.

I know from my professional background - analytical chemist - that regular re-evaluation will be beneficial as well.

 

Al.

[Roy Langridge]

All very interesting about the effects of matching speeds, but what has that specifically got to do with the Hattons 66?

 

Roy

[PaulRhB]

On 01/02/2020 at 16:01, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Also, I never thought that speed matching was an essential, must do procedure. I have never noticed in the manuals for the DCC Controllers that speed matching is a must otherwise it may damage loco/s in the consist. The manuals I have read just suggest that for perfect, fine tuned running where the locos are completely 'in sink' that speed matching is an option. 

It’s an option and more useful if you heavily load your locos in multiple consists, this is why it’s popular in the US with longer trains. The difference on your average UK layout with 10-15 rtr wagons is minimal unless they are whitemetal kits you run

If you consistently run ill matched locos together under heavy load you may notice the wear but occasional double heading makes a tiny difference so really not worth worrying about. All they’d do is recommend changing the gear after x hours! Much like you get the mileage or time limits on cam belts. It’s a part that wears through use so as long as it gives a reasonable life it’s counted as disposable so the year guarantee would cover that. 
I Gauge 1 we once wore out a brass gear after 8 hours running, it was on 10 100t tanks with whitemetal bogies and tank ends though! I seem to remember the wagons weighed a couple of kg each. 

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

All very interesting about the effects of matching speeds, but what has that specifically got to do with the Hattons 66?

 

Roy

 

It was to do with the decoder Hattons supply in DCC fitted supporting consists, and then somebody thinking it automatically speed matched. Apologies for going OT as it was probably me doing most of the yapping about it.

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

It’s an option and more useful if you heavily load your locos in multiple consists, this is why it’s popular in the US with longer trains. The difference on your average UK layout with 10-15 rtr wagons is minimal unless they are whitemetal kits you run

If you consistently run ill matched locos together under heavy load you may notice the wear but occasional double heading makes a tiny difference so really not worth worrying about. All they’d do is recommend changing the gear after x hours! Much like you get the mileage or time limits on cam belts. It’s a part that wears through use so as long as it gives a reasonable life it’s counted as disposable so the year guarantee would cover that. 
I Gauge 1 we once wore out a brass gear after 8 hours running, it was on 10 100t tanks with whitemetal bogies and tank ends though! I seem to remember the wagons weighed a couple of kg each. 

 

I was noticing wheel slip and a knocking noise with mine not even pulling anything because the speeds weren't matched

[john new]

5 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

All very interesting about the effects of matching speeds, but what has that specifically got to do with the Hattons 66?

 

Roy

It relates to running two 66s as a pair or in a pair, relevant here.

 

 

 

 

[PaulRhB]

15 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I was noticing wheel slip and a knocking noise with mine not even pulling anything because the speeds weren't matched

That’s an extreme case for sure, were they run in separately first? That just sounds extreme for two identical mechanisms even allowing for motor variables. 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

That’s an extreme case for sure, were they run in separately first? That just sounds extreme for two identical mechanisms even allowing for motor variables. 

 

Yeah they are both used. It wasn't much it was maybe once a lap it would just give a bit of slip as if the pressure was building up over time (which makes sense) and then when the mechanism won't allow any more play it slips. It wasn't much, like half a second if that just losing the tension. But I'd rather have the speeds right than it do it. Now I can run them indefinitely and not have any issues as slight as they were before.

 

As in when running separately near each other one would make up a couple of CM per lap (if that) but when connected to each other that is going to have an effect.

Edited February 3, 2020 by TomScrut

[PaulRhB]

To be honest that sounds more like over sensitive BEMF than stored up mechanical stress. Try switching off BEMF (cv49 value reduced by 1) on the one slipping and see if it still happens. If that solves it then look into turning the BEMF level down. Leaving it totally off means it will need driving more so if you want constant speed on gradients and the flat BEMF has a place. Personally I prefer it off anyway. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by PaulRhB

[Colin_McLeod]

2 hours ago, john new said:

It relates to running two 66s as a pair or in a pair, relevant here.

 

 

 

 

 

Would two class 66s equal a class 132?  lol

 

https://www.roco.cc/en/product/23331-0-0-0-1-0-0-002003/products.html

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, PaulRhB said:

To be honest that sounds more like over sensitive BEMF than stored up mechanical stress. Try switching off BEMF (cv49 value reduced by 1) on the one slipping and see if it still happens. If that solves it then look into turning the BEMF level down. Leaving it totally off means it will need driving more so if you want constant speed on gradients and the flat BEMF has a place. Personally I prefer it off anyway. 

 

Maybe so. I have stopped it doing it anyway by matching the speeds properly. All had the auto BEMF calibration done by the decoder (all are ESU, one 37 is a Loksound select the rest are Lokpilot V4)

Edited February 3, 2020 by TomScrut

[Roy Langridge]

6 hours ago, john new said:

It relates to running two 66s as a pair or in a pair, relevant here.

 

 

 

 

Ok, but there is nothing different with the 66? I ask as there was a suggestion for Hattons to include a warning, but I have not seen anything to indicate anything that is of particular note with this loco compared to pretty much any other loco and consisting with DCC. I feared I had missed something. 
 

Roy

Edited February 3, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Type

[Vecchio]

20 hours ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Has either the original 66 or the new replacement 66 you now have become derailed because of the wobble? With regards to the axel boxes and the loco wobbling, it was suggested by another member on the forum that the loco may be wobbling when running due to the axel boxes been refitted by customers? Could you confirm if you refitted any of the axel boxes onto either of your 66s or was the wobble already present without refitting any axel boxes that had fallen off? 

 

Just saw this after I replied to your PM. I had no derailment issues, neither with the first, nor with the second locomotive. 

Wobbling: The loco wobbled without me touching anything. I have not re-fitted any axle box as no axle box came off during the 2 hours running before I sent it back. 

 

Regards

Vecchio

[NIRCLASS80]

I’m sure during this project Hattons has wished they had never started!  A steep learning curve for a excellent retailer. 

[rob D2]

And this is why I never buy anything now from the first release !

[blueeighties]

On 02/02/2020 at 16:52, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

 axel 

AxLe.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

11 hours ago, Vecchio said:

 

Just saw this after I replied to your PM. I had no derailment issues, neither with the first, nor with the second locomotive. 

Wobbling: The loco wobbled without me touching anything. I have not re-fitted any axle box as no axle box came off during the 2 hours running before I sent it back. 

 

Regards

Vecchio

 

Thank you very much for the reply and for the info. I really appreciate it. 

 

It's good to hear that neither of the locos didn't derail due to the wobbling but the fact that the loco is wobbling without having refitted any axle boxes isn't good because this may become a bit annoying. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[Vecchio]

On 31/01/2020 at 21:06, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

I was just thinking the same. 

 

I know that Bachmann, Dapol and Hattons has been mentioned previously that produce 6 function DCC Decoders but like you I don't think their is a decoder with more than 6 functions. In that case how on earth if 6 function decoders won't operate the cab lights can they be operated. 

 

 

For those looking for decoders with 10 functions: There is not only ESU in this world. 

 

Zimo MX 633, Zimo MX 635, Zimo MX 645 (sound)

 

Vecchio,  a Zimo fan

 

[No Decorum]

13 hours ago, blueeighties said:

AxLe.

Thank you. I’m pedantic enough as it is, so I just gritted my teeth and shut up. My teeth were starting to crack.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

8 hours ago, Vecchio said:

 

 

For those looking for decoders with 10 functions: There is not only ESU in this world. 

 

Zimo MX 633, Zimo MX 635, Zimo MX 645 (sound)

 

Vecchio,  a Zimo fan

 

 

Thank you very much for posting. 

 

I wasn't aware that their were 10 function, non sound DCC Decoders. 

 

Thank you. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny. 

[rob D2]

Yeah, not this one..you want the other one DRS

 

 

[Steveh145]

Evening all,

 

does anyone have the 66/6 variant and if yes have you noticed only one of the marker lights works? This is the 3rd one I have had due to issues and when I have ran in on dc on a rolling road before installing a decoder once again only one of the marker lights works? Not sure if it is just this model? (66621) if anyone has noticed this?

 

regards 

 

Steve

Edited February 5, 2020 by Steveh145
Apologies that should have been 2 of the marker lights, the one next too the high intensity light