Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[amarr40]

 I would have just returned it to Hattons for replacement / refund. Simples.

[john new]

But is it that simple? I only want one specific loco (the Society named one), and if I send it back then, as it is a sold out item, I can’t get another. However, like the one Marcus has, mine also has the random derailing fault derails (See my earlier posts). Not sure I will strip it back like Marcus did but the issue needs a fix.

 

Edit: Subsequent testing narrowed it down to one point in one direction - probably prime cause a track fault - point tweak has fixed with no mod needed to loco.

 

Edited April 6, 2020 by john new
Edited 6th April as a result of further testing.

[Mel_H]

21 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

Hi guys, 

 

I have just posted a full review of my findings with the class 66 on YouTube . I have detailed a few fixes to problems I have found, and given an honest verdict on my opinion of the model. Safe to say, I am not really very happy with these at all.

 

Hattons - if you are keeping tabs on this thread, I would welcome your thoughts once you have watched this video.

 

All the bes

 

Marcus

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80OCOXTjcec&t=2366s

 

 

Thanks for the video - it's nicely produced and has a good commentary. From what I've read on this thread since the first 66s were delivered to customers, it's a fair review being 'warts and all' - and certainly is 'fair comment'.

 

It's also good to see a video from someone who does actual modelling and has a layout that's 'finished'. Nice layout!

 

Crucially, you make it very clear that the sound project and quality is excellent, as is the detailing and livery application (despite some errors).

 

You are also fair in not comparing it with the Bachmann product, because it is from a different era. Taking close scrutiny is fair comment given, as you have pointed out, the claims Hattons makes about the overall standard of the loco.

 

When a manufacturer says that it is raising the bar on detail ('Setting higher standards', another one once said), then it invites close examination to see if its claims stand up.

 

In terms of QC, it is clear that Hattons' factory has not delivered fully on this aspect. Obviously we don't have figures, but it appears that QC issues are higher than new products from other manufacturers.

 

The drive shaft issue is interesting. It may be that it fell out in the post; this was an issue with the Lima 67. Although with these you could easily tell as there was a rattling sound. The root cause was that the central can motor too easily 'popped out' of its mounting if roughly handled in transit.

 

I picked up a few very cheap Lima 67s from eBay, which had the description "doesn't run, rattling sound', but I digress.

 

These problems can be fixed (Heljan had similar problems with bits falling off in earlier times) and we all accept that the assembly is very fiddly and the quantity of glue used has to be sparing, otherwise you end up with 'blobs'. But that's the arena anyone enters when they choose to go into manufacturing their own locomotives and stock.

 

Hopefully Hattons will take note of yours (and others') comments, and introduce QC improvements to subsequent production runs. In terms of the returns issues etc, it does again highlight some of the internal problems that Hattons has with communications to customers - again this is not hard to deal with, if Hattons wants to.

 

I've got a 66 on order, and have been 'umming and ahhing' about whether the cancel, based on other people's (and now yours) feedback. At the moment, I'm going to 'take the risk' and if it's a dud, return it.

 

Again, thanks for such an honest, and balanced, appraisal of our 'toy trains'...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mel_H]

Just now, carefreecfc said:

Thank you , I am glad that you found it useful and I am really happy that you interpreted the review as it was intended . I appreciate your comments .  Don’t cancel your order . If you get a goodun you’ll be chuffed :-) 

 

Marcus 
 

 

 

My modelling skills probably don't extend to doing all the remedial work that you had to do, so fingers crossed. I must say that your description of how you overcame the problems was very helpful and I'd be inspired to have a go. 

 

P.S. And, before any 'keyboard warriors' attack me too, I stand by my statement that your video is 'fair comment' and once you'd been alerted to the changes Hattons' has made to its procedures you highlighted this in the captions. I think some of the flack you've suffered is overly harsh (especially as your video includes much helpful information too) - but then when you stick your head up, that's what happens on here. It's why I'm only an occasional visitor to RMweb. I'd come more often if it was a friendlier place...

[7013]

Hi Marcus No criticism intended and it was really unfortunate that you got a couple of bad models. My point about bias was because you had problems with your EWS 66 perhaps your review (lets call t that then) was based on a previously bad experience . Your video and commentary, and description of the faults you found and how you fixed them was excellent and I applaud you for that, and did acknowledge it at the beginning. My concern is that not all 66s distributed have what appear to be major faults like yours. I have just received notification from Royal Mail that my Freightliner 66 is being delivered today. I am hoping I do not have any faults at all, but if I do I will either fix minor faults or send it back if it has major faults. Of course I could send it to you for repair because I coud/would not take on the repairs you did.Stay safe

[Johnfromoz]

24 minutes ago, carefreecfc said:

Hopefully yours don’t have any issues, and if the video has inspired you to have a go at correcting problems then it was worth making the video. 
 

Yes - I’ve taken quite a bit of flack. I guess it’s a risk I take by having an opinion. That said have gone out of my way to amend the incorrect  information on the video which Hattons customer service inaccurately provided provided me . 
 

I am also nowadays an infrequent visitor to RMWEB. This has reminded me why !

 

Marcus,

 

Thank you for an excellent, informative and constructive review. I found it extremely useful in weighing up my decision to purchase at present.

 

John

 

 

 

John

[big jim]

52 minutes ago, carefreecfc said:

Hopefully yours don’t have any issues, and if the video has inspired you to have a go at correcting problems then it was worth making the video. 
 

Yes - I’ve taken quite a bit of flack. I guess it’s a risk I take by having an opinion. That said have gone out of my way to amend the incorrect  information on the video which Hattons customer service inaccurately provided provided me . 
 

I am also nowadays an infrequent visitor to RMWEB. This has reminded me why !

much as I’m in Very much the ‘I’m not getting one until the faults are sorted’ gang since watching your video I’m tempted to bite the bullet and get 66789 and a separate sound chip off legoman as I don’t want to miss out on getting that particular livery, I know I could wait for the Bachmann one but I did promise myself at least one hattons 66 and had decided on that livery 

 

if I have issues at least I can now see what to do to remedy it thanks to your video, the only other downside now is how long will lockdown last and can I afford one with not knowing what’s around the corner! 

[TomScrut]

47 minutes ago, carefreecfc said:

I guess it’s a risk I take by having an opinion.

 

The tone in which opinions are presented goes a long way to how people react to them! You got unlucky with your models, and you shouldn't have had to do the things you did to them, but as has been mentioned before it's the way it comes across is probably why people are giving you flack. But fair play to you for correcting the video with respect to returns, that's the bit that got the most reaction I think? I think in general on any forum (just like real life) having an outspoken opinion does lead to reactions, you have had reactions both ways and I do also note that you like your models once sorted although then whilst I can see some sense in your lack of recommendation, it just seems a bit conflicted saying how much you like them yet not recommending them. Replying in bold red text (regardless of motive) also doesn't give the right impression!

 

Either way, I have my own so have my own opinions on them. Probably a watered down version of yours in that I have had less issues but neither were perfect and one is going back (to be replaced)

 

5 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Well i did mention its easy to get put on the naughty step,just dont ask Dave as hes busy answering others on you tube.

 

You do keep mentioning that... although I aren't sure at what point you thought you were getting put on a step of any sort. As far as I can tell all the replies you have had on the matter of Dave have been rational yet you keep talking about the naughty step and the next batch which might not even happen if people dont buy these ones!

 

Also, hasn't it been established that the Dave you are banging on about being on YouTube is a different Dave to the one running the project?

[TomScrut]

7 minutes ago, big jim said:

I know I could wait for the Bachmann one

 

If you're willing to work on any issues or send it back to try again I'd definitely spend the extra money on the Hattons one TBH having got a (dodgy) 789 here and a couple of Bachmann 66s.

[big jim]

I’ve got 30+ Bachmann 66s I’ve no intention of parting with but a Hattons one with sound was going to be a one off treat!

 

do I risk not getting 66789 if they didnt  rerun them after this batch is sold or risk getting a potential dodgy one so I at least have one 

[TomScrut]

2 minutes ago, big jim said:

I’ve got 30+ Bachmann 66s I’ve no intention of parting with but a Hattons one with sound was going to be a one off treat!

 

do I risk not getting 66789 if they didnt  rerun them after this batch is sold or risk getting a potential dodgy one so I at least have one 

 

It would be interesting to know how many they got made TBH. 66789 looks like it is the most popular choice from what I have seen online. Oddly enough I am trying to order my replacement but the website is malfunctioning!

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

if they sell out

 

If being the key word! They have 37 varieties to shift as it is!

[chris37422]

Treated myself to 66418 ‘Patriot’ and it’s just arrived via RM. I was umming and ahing with this particular one knowing it has the lighting issue. But I’m in the (probable) minority who actually like the Powerhaul scheme and like the story behind the Patriot naming. So I took the plunge....

 

I’m delighted with it if I’m honest. It’s my second Hattons 66 after 66789 which I got before Christmas and at the time felt a little underwhelmed with (probably because of the various documented issues) although I thought it was definitely superior to the Bachmann offering (of which I have 30+ and still rate)

I hastily arranged a quick comparison shot of My Hattons 66418 and Bachmann 66416 which has shown different tones of green used. Opened a can of worms with myself though and hastily compared with the other Powerhaul locos in my collection (Bachmann 08, 70 and 90) and the Hornby 86) and i don't think any of the shades match each other lol but thats one for my OCD to get over!

 

It’s not perfect, one of the handrails on the cab front was dislodged and I couldn't see anywhere obvious where it should pop in to so I’ll have to glue that in place. The box was in poor condition too, scratched quite a bit on all sides but theres more important things going on in the world right now!

 

I’ve got a Bachmann 66413 on order and look forward to receiving that but will likely be back for FL 66593 and 66528 from Hattons.

 

Gets a thumbs up from me!

 

Happy Modelling!

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by chris37422
Spelling

[YesTor]

  

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

2 hours ago, carefreecfc said:

I guess it’s a risk I take by having an opinion.

 

The tone in which opinions are presented goes a long way to how people react to them!

 

^ This, times 10

 

It ain't what you say, it's the way that you say it...

 

over and out too

A

Edited April 4, 2020 by YesTor
no longer relevant

['CHARD]

29 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

 

and can pull like a pretty blonde.

 

 

Excellent review from the cast of The Sweeney!

[rob D2]

4 hours ago, 7013 said:

Have just read this review in its entirety, It is good for what it is, however poor Marcus does seem to have been sent a couple of duff models, especially when you think about the hundreds that have been sent out and have had no issues at all, and yes there are some that have minor issues ,however, they do not necessitate stripping a brand new loco down and essentially carrying out major adjustments/repairs to get it working, and unfortunately that is where this review fails. It is biased in that Marcus has undertaken this 'review' with the premise that he is going to find numerous faults, therefore it is more of a fault finding exercise than a review, his whole dialogue is negatively slanted. In fact it is Marcus' opinion based on his unfortunate experience but cannot be extrapolated to conclude these are common findings across the board. Yes the Axle Box covers are a common finding, but I certainly have not heard of remedial work of these proportions. I rarely if ever look at You Tube but I have not seen on RMweb lots of references to major work such as that undertaken by Marcus. Marcus is clearly happy to take a brand new model apart and re jig it to get it working, and although I class myself as a competent modeller I have to ask why would anyone undertake such work on a new model? It is what it is, a brutally honest opinion based on his experience, it is not however (IMO) an unbiased review.

You can only review something based on the sample you are given... 2 is a reasonable cross section . What are you supposed to say “ my two are rather poor but I’m sure the other 3000 are fine “.

 

if you read back in the thread you’ll find several people who’ve had to use surgery on their 66s to get them going properly.

 

i take offence to the idea it’s not” unbiased “- of course it is , I’m sure Marcus would have rather they ran straight out the box .

 

i found the whole thing refreshing as he didn’t sugar coat the - s, but let’s not forget he brought out the +s

['CHARD]

12 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

they need to up there game as Accurascale will show them how if not it seems.

 

 

I must have missed Accurascale's announcement of its Class 66.  

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Its Hattons of Liverpool not Totters trading or Arthur Dailey,think yourself lucky if you have returned 66789 as they can put your sound bits in another non dcc if its a duffer.

Why are you worried if they sell or not,its there issue and if they make a better batch imagine what they will sell like,they need to up there game as Accurascale will show them how if not it seems.

 

 

I haven't got a sound one so not sure where you got that impression from.

 

I aren't worried about them selling out at all, it's not my problem. If I get the 4 I anticipate getting that might be it for me.

 

The point is that people, especially yourself, continue to harp on about future batches, when actually they have done 37 numbers/liveries to get rid of before that. 37 is far more combinations at once than anyone I am aware of has ever done. I just expect them to be about for a long time! That along with the "I am waiting for the next batches when they get everything sorted out" brigade not buying these ones (which I aren't saying they should) *may* mean these ones are the last. But I do agree IF they can sort the issues out and decide it's worth the financial risk, then they would probably do better still.

 

Whilst this topic is not about Accurascale, how do we know what their stuff is going to be like? I hope it will be great since I have a load of stuff on order but we thought this was going to be but has left a lot of people emotional and feeling let down.

Edited April 4, 2020 by TomScrut

[john new]

On 03/04/2020 at 20:25, john new said:

My 66 derails on some, but not all, points as yours did. Is the only way to do the bogie shimming fix by taking the whole thing to bits and going in from the top including speaker removal etc? (I am guessing yes)

 

Soldering a tiny piece of extra brass to the track to force a re-rail will be the easier option if the answer is yes, i.e. living with the derail and overcoming it by lateral thinking.

 

 

I had a go at solving this earlier as it was mainly one point only*. My thinking was that if the front nearside (L/H) wheel is lifting up and over where it hits the point of the frog/crossing V then a slightly raised check rail for the right hand wheel will stop the sideways movement. This  card/white tack bodge slightly extends the check and has raised it by the thickness of the card above the moulded plastic original. It has worked without my dismantling the loco. The next thing will be to remove the moulded plastic item and fit a permanent replacement in metal rail to do the job the card slip is currently doing. 

 

* Edit 6th April : Subsequent testing narrowed it down to one point in one direction - probably prime cause a track fault - this point tweak has fixed the issue with no mod needed to loco.

 

 

Incidentally having solved the derail issue I have now tried it with a coach and a wagon attached to the coupling - these modern piddly small things are not really fit for purpose on sharp curves. Derailments and failure to couple - but these are down to the coupling type not the loco; however, that said the centring spring does seem a bit on the firm side.

 

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and/or replaced post crash.

[Hilux5972]

11 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

I replied to your post immediately after it, the Lokpilot 5 MKL is the one you want. 59649 is the DC compatible one, 59659 is the DCC only one. 59659 is what I have and it works as it should in one of the locos, the other Hattons say is faulty.

 

I ordered mine from Germany as I read somewhere (was it maybe from you Richard on FB?) that ESUs distributer was closed and I couldn't see anywhere with stock in the UK.

My apologies, I must have swiped past your reply without realising. Thanks for that. I’ll get a couple of the DCC ones ready for when the Royal Scotsman pair arrive. 

[meatloaf]

5 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

It would be interesting to know how many they got made TBH. 66789 looks like it is the most popular choice from what I have seen online. Oddly enough I am trying to order my replacement but the website is malfunctioning!

Does it keep adding 2 to the basket by any chance or randomly adding extras?

[TomScrut]

4 minutes ago, meatloaf said:

Does it keep adding 2 to the basket by any chance or randomly adding extras?

 

It has been randomly erasing itself and then when re adding remembering therefore doubling up. But now the issue is "go to checkout" or whatever it says just brings an error up. I have told them about it, they suggested phoning but was looking after the kids meaning phone calls are more trouble than they are worth! They are quiet as nice until somebody is on the phone!

[Free At Last]

For those on Facebook, Hattons are running a 'Pub Quiz' with a 66 as a prize. Starting at 19.15pm,

 

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Free At Last

[big jim]

6 minutes ago, Free At Last said:

For those on Facebook, Hattons are running a 'Pub Quiz' with a 66 as a prize. Starting at 19.15pm,

 

 

 And 2 for coming last 

[7013]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

You can only review something based on the sample you are given... 2 is a reasonable cross section . What are you supposed to say “ my two are rather poor but I’m sure the other 3000 are fine “.

I take your point Rob D2, And yes you can only review what you have, but  to make it properly unbiased there must be an acknowledgement that there are a lot of 66s sold that have no problems at all. My point about bias is that Marcus had already had problems with his EWS 66 so it is only natural he should approach the GBRf loco with a certain degree of negativity. It was unfortunate for him that he got another loco that was poor which reinforced his opinion of the 66. The video was excellent and Marcus certainly showed his skills in sorting out the problems; it is to be hoped that the extensive problems he had are few and far between.