Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[Johnfromoz]

Danny,

 

A considered, balanced and thoughtful posting.  I thoroughly agree.  Marcus is to be be commended, not attacked for highlighting  the manifest quality control issues relating to this model.

 

John

[7013]

6 hours ago, bart2day said:

 

He can only review what’s in front of him. If he got sent two faulty locos that’s either incredibly bad luck (unlikely) or demonstrates wider issues with the Hattons 66 (more likely)

Whilst I agree it was incredibly bad luck to get two locos with major faults, there is evidence that people have had multiple purchases which are fine. The review that Marcus did was excellent but you cannot extrapolate that the majority of 66s are faulty on that review alone. Also, those with problems are more likely to post on this site to share and seek resolutions to their problems, so that skews the sample. As I said the review is fine but it can only be taken as indicative of the model if you know what percentage it represents of the total sales. To say the model is fault free would be wrong, but Marcus can only condemn those two models not the whole production unless we have the full picture.

[Roy Langridge]

9 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Whilst I agree it was incredibly bad luck to get two locos with major faults, there is evidence that people have had multiple purchases which are fine. The review that Marcus did was excellent but you cannot extrapolate that the majority of 66s are faulty on that review alone. Also, those with problems are more likely to post on this site to share and seek resolutions to their problems, so that skews the sample. As I said the review is fine but it can only be taken as indicative of the model if you know what percentage it represents of the total sales. To say the model is fault free would be wrong, but Marcus can only condemn those two models not the whole production unless we have the full picture.

 

My concern is that some people seem to jump on a "Hattons are rubbish" bandwagon as if no other manufacturer has had such faults. My 66 had three axle boxes and a cab handrail not properly attached. I have had worse from other manufacturers, that on models that are not supposed to have bits rotating etc. If I look back over the history of my purchases, Hattons are nowhere near the top of the fault pile if I take a percentage of models purchased v faults on delivery.

 

If this were an issue that related solely to Hattons only I could understand some of the comments, but it isn't. Pretty much every manufacturer has produced items that have had issues - a fact that seems to be lost on some people.

 

Hattons are relatively new to the manufacturing game and I am sure are learning from the mistakes / issues encountered.

Roy

[truffy]

23 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Whilst I agree it was incredibly bad luck to get two locos with major faults, there is evidence that people have had multiple purchases which are fine.

 

7 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

Hattons are relatively new to the manufacturing game and I am sure are learning from the mistakes / issues encountered.

 

Both correct. But Marcus isn't the only one who's experienced these problems. How much the picture is skewed by people posting here is something we'll never get the answer to.

 

But, if I were still sitting on the fence over purchasing this model, Marcus's review is just the sort of balance I was looking for after the initial glowing, but uncritical, reviews that were posted on YT. He didn't damn the model, just brought to attention some issues.

[meatloaf]

If you want to see a bad review see the one sams trains did on the Heljan 1361 tank loco

[RBAGE]

41 minutes ago, 7013 said:

Whilst I agree it was incredibly bad luck to get two locos with major faults, there is evidence that people have had multiple purchases which are fine. The review that Marcus did was excellent but you cannot extrapolate that the majority of 66s are faulty on that review alone. Also, those with problems are more likely to post on this site to share and seek resolutions to their problems, so that skews the sample. As I said the review is fine but it can only be taken as indicative of the model if you know what percentage it represents of the total sales. To say the model is fault free would be wrong, but Marcus can only condemn those two models not the whole production unless we have the full picture.

I wonder of Hatton's might share the details of their returns and complaints against the number sold then there would be no need for any kind of estimation?  It's obvious they won't so the only option people have is to look at the experiences of people here and elsewhere.

Whether it's Hatton's or anyone else, manufacturer's should not rely on "luck" when they put their products to market and should not rely on the likes of Marcus to undertake the quality control. They might only be toys and I have things in perspective but these things should be fit for purpose when they leave the factory. Buyers shouldn't have to come on to sites like this to seek solutions to problems which are not "their's", they are the manufacturer's problems.

[RBAGE]

Just as an afterthought. If modellers are happy to come on sites like this for solutions to problems that should never have left the factory, why should manufacturer's bother to try to get things right in the first place?

Again, I am aware of perspective, but of you bought a new car with wobbly wheels would you immediately set to with a bit of home repairs?

Whether it is a £20k car or a £150 toy train, they are governed by the same rules of sale.

[Class 158 productions]

I had an early release in December, it arrived broken and would not run. It was sent back and arrived again quickly. It runs smoothly,but in one direction it falls off points. The Ews colour is very different  compared to my Hornby and Bachmann locos in the same livery. I do not know enough about the prototype to see if the hattons one is correct, apparently the windows and font seem to be wrong. An excellent model hampered by severe design flaws as well as appalling quality control. There also seems to be no response on these issues, I.e hattons making an apology video or addressing the customers, thanks for listening to my experience. 

[spamcan61]

42 minutes ago, RBAGE said:

I wonder of Hatton's might share the details of their returns and complaints against the number sold then there would be no need for any kind of estimation?  It's obvious they won't so the only option people have is to look at the experiences of people here and elsewhere.

 

I've never known any company in any field of business do that officially, so no, I don't expect Hattons to do it either.

 

Having said that I do recall somewhere in depths of RMWeb """our"" Dave (when he was still working for Dapol IIRC) in his usual 'off the cuff' fashion quoted an expected customer return figure -15% springs to mind. i'll see if I can find the original posting later to double check that number.

[john new]

On 07/04/2020 at 10:44, Class 158 productions said:

I had an early release in December, it arrived broken and would not run. It was sent back and arrived again quickly. It runs smoothly,but in one direction it falls off points. The Ews colour is very different  compared to my Hornby and Bachmann locos in the same livery. I do not know enough about the prototype to see if the hattons one is correct, apparently the windows and font seem to be wrong. An excellent model hampered by severe design flaws as well as appalling quality control. There also seems to be no response on these issues, I.e hattons making an apology video or addressing the customers, thanks for listening to my experience. 

 

Given that I eventually traced my 66 derail problem to two specific track faults I would assess your track closely for minor alignment issues for example are the check rails actually doing their job of guiding wheels (one of mine wasn't), are there any minor alignment errors leading into the point, and if you have proprietary points are the moving blades set correctly? I posted the shot below on my layout thread yesterday, looking at the right hand blade rail of the point on the right (as seen in the shot) it is hardly surprising the 66 rocks and clunks a bit going through it and over that slightly misaligned rail joint. Something, that now I have seen it, also needs a fix.

 

There is a fault here,  however it is clearly a Hornby one (IIRC this is a Hornby point), the Hattons 66 may identify it, but it isn't the cause just as I can't blame the camera for the fact it is so noticeable in the photo!

 

Edited November 18, 2022 by john new
Photo(s) found and/or replaced post crash.

[Sir TophamHatt]

While I don't want to drag this on:

 

1) My 66 had a wobble - running for an hour seems to have changed this.

2) 2 axle boxes off.  Still off after a week.

3) While simple, I'm really not that confident with making any adjustments or repairs.

4) Remember, you're more likely to comment / complain if there's something wrong.  I'm sure there's hundreds of these models out there that are fine.

5) I'm still umming and arrring whether to send it back for a new one.  I have no doubt Hattons will do what they can to help.

At the end of the day, I don't want to be left without a model at all (if they only offer a refund).

 

While the review video did have a negative approach, if I had two models and both had problems, which were also reported online from a variety of people, I'd also be making the same critical approach.

[RBAGE]

A further thought. If you do decide to undertake repairs yourself, what does that do to any subsequent claim you might wish to make on the original warranty? Say, for example, you are unable to resolve the wobbly issue by opening up a hole to say 3mm and it doesn't have the desire effect.

Don't worry, I already know the answer.

[reggie]

On 05/04/2020 at 12:55, Marcoblanco said:

Maybe it would even things out everyone who has got a 66 with no problems to post here  with just a 'all fine' and have a count up, that might give those of us looking to buy a fairer reflection of the model. 

 

I have the GBRf 66789 with DCC Sound, and I think it is the best model I have bought. The detail is superb, the sound is excellent, it runs very very well,

performance is excellent. Yes, the axle boxes can come loose, but this is a new innovation, so I'm not surprised there is a teething problem, but is an easy fix. Things will never move on if manufacturers don't try to innovate. I appreciate some people may not have as good an experience with theirs, but as has been said many times, I can go only judge the model i received. 

 

I would not hesitate in buying more (I have Cemex on order), and would recommend it highly. It is a far superior model to the Bachmann, imo.

[Class 158 productions]

The problem with the model is that it is such an anticipated release, that was “hyped up” so much by hattons that it was easy to fall short. In today’s climate with rising prices people may not be able to afford many locos a year. For some this may be the only “big” purchase made. I use peco express points with no visible deformities and it runs over them well in one direction but falls off in reverse. I hope some sort of statement is released or the reviews turn against hattons, they had the chance to be different from other manufacturers. By being open, Hornby are beginning to do so, whereas our friends in barwell seem more isolated than ever before. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Class 158 productions

[john new]

1 minute ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

Theres a thread on issues with Hornby frogs,the plastic rounding off and lifting the wheel out on locos,the peco is more squared and has not got the issue,might be worth tidying the frog end.

 

Thanks for the tip, the reason I posted though is that I wonder how many people are blaming the loco for being faulty, as I did initially, when all it is doing is finding a pre-existing trackwork fault? Fix the fault and solve the derail. 

[TomScrut]

17 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

sound project it would have hit the buffers i guess.

 

Not sure about that. The main appeal to me was the lighting configuration, added details etc. Oddly enough though I aren't excited at all by the axle boxes. I am getting 4 and sound won't be going near them.

 

Don't get me wrong if sound is your thing this will be a big draw but the sound isn't all that's going for it.

[rob D2]

More worrying - what motivation is there for “ future batches “ to have all these problems ironed out , if people keep buying these . None at all .

 

Hattons Dave seems to have gone very quiet , maybe he’s given up on this thread 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by rob D2

[7013]

Whilst I have no wish to prolong this thread about Marcus' video. The option is, you can return it and either hope a replacement is issue free, or get your money back. Or as Marcus did carry out the repairs himself. What is not clear is how much repair one can do without negating your warranty.

I have just a few minutes ago received my loco (Freightliner RLS). Unfortunately I have just started a major expansion of my layout so will only be able to look at it on my small test track. However stage one complete, i.e. removed it from the box and all bits are intact, nothing appears loose at present and all the axle boxes are in place. Absolutely stunning looking model. When I have time I will fire it up and give it the once over.

[truffy]

1 hour ago, meatloaf said:

If you want to see a bad review see the one sams trains did on the Heljan 1361 tank loco

Perhaps aided by the fact that he didn’t get it from Hattons?  

[TomScrut]

21 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

More worrying - what motivation is there for “ future batches “ to have all these problems ironed out , if people keep buying these . None at all .

 

Hattons Dave seems to have gone very quiet , maybe he’s given up on this thread 

 

 

 

And if people don't buy these, then what motivation will there be for future ones?

 

The amount of returns etc. they will be getting will be enough of a money pit to motivate for improvements I'd expect. Along with the bad press these ones are getting.

 

Also, regarding Dave, that might be the case, or it could be that there's nothing to say. Anyone with issues should have contacted support. They would have apologised. At present I wouldn't expect there is anything more to say?

Edited April 7, 2020 by TomScrut

[newbryford]

14 hours ago, Dicky L said:

 

I wasn’t aware 783 had worked the cements. another one to recreate in the fullness of time. 

 

It has - but not the usual Avonmouth-Clitheroe

This is the Kings Cross-Ketton.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by newbryford

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, newbryford said:

the usual Avonmouth-Clitheroe

 

I have a mate who lives near Whalley viaduct (just south of Clitheroe). He tells me whenever he sees a celeb on that run!

[big jim]

It’s surprising just how many different things biffa has been used on, I’ve had it loads of times on various jobs, still yet to drive a Scotsman one though 

 

ive succumbed to temptation and just ordered 66789 (without sound), I’ll upgrade it to sound via Legoman at some point

 

here’s hoping I get a good one  

[YesTor]

3 hours ago, rob D2 said:

More worrying - what motivation is there for “ future batches “ to have all these problems ironed out , if people keep buying these . None at all . 

 

If this batch is as moronically defective as a lot of people seem to be making out, and Hatton's are receiving a disproportionate number of defective models returned than they would ever hope to expect, then that alone will be the motivation to improve.  

 

Lots of people umm-ing and ahh-ing on various platforms it seems, when surely the course of action is pretty simple:

1. Purchase model
2. Model looks great and works great 
3. Happy bunny and all is well, sit down, have a cup of tea and a little celebration 

or

1. Purchase model
2. Model doesn't look great or/and doesn't work/run as it should 
3. Follow Hatton's advice and return defective model for either a refund or replacement 
4. Let Hatton's worry about how many models they have returned and what they intend to do from thereon - either way you/I/the customer does not have to worry about the cost.  
5. You can still sit down, have a cup of tea and you still haven't lost a dime. 

 

And Nos. 3 & 4 above likely explain why there has been no further 'announcement' from Hatton's.  Clear advice has surely been given with what to do if your model is defective?  What else is there to say at this point?  If Hatton's were somehow refusing returns then I could understand people becoming as upset as some seem to be, but they aren't.  It all seems pretty clear-cut to me...

 

Al

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by YesTor

[Legend]

3 hours ago, 7013 said:

Whilst I have no wish to prolong this thread about Marcus' video. The option is, you can return it and either hope a replacement is issue free, or get your money back. Or as Marcus did carry out the repairs himself. What is not clear is how much repair one can do without negating your warranty.

I have just a few minutes ago received my loco (Freightliner RLS). Unfortunately I have just started a major expansion of my layout so will only be able to look at it on my small test track. However stage one complete, i.e. removed it from the box and all bits are intact, nothing appears loose at present and all the axle boxes are in place. Absolutely stunning looking model. When I have time I will fire it up and give it the once over.

 

Id have though once you start taking things apart you negate the warranty . Perhaps ok getting the body off but no other alterations . Certainly drilling out the axle covers and probably disassembling the bogie tower I would have though negates warranty . Faced with wobbling and derailing and no improvement over time I think I'd send it back . In this case as its really not on my list but would have been nice to have , I think I'll give it a miss for time being . Really couldn't be bothered with the hassle.