Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[TomScrut]

56 minutes ago, Legend said:

 

Id have though once you start taking things apart you negate the warranty . Perhaps ok getting the body off but no other alterations . Certainly drilling out the axle covers and probably disassembling the bogie tower I would have though negates warranty . Faced with wobbling and derailing and no improvement over time I think I'd send it back . In this case as its really not on my list but would have been nice to have , I think I'll give it a miss for time being . Really couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

 

That's exactly why one if mine is going back. I could rewire it myself I think, but why should I at the risk of losing warranty? It's a bit different to reattaching axle boxes which they offer instructions for.

 

As far as I can see all the models are in stock, so an exchange would mean swapping decoder and speaker over on sound models.

 

This is an interesting item though, one can only speculate as to what's gone on here:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/530720/hattons_originals_h4_66_017_po_class_66_66612_in_freightliner_livery_pre_owned_open_box_renumbered_faulty_mar/stockdetail.aspx

[newbryford]

6 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

That's exactly why one if mine is going back. I could rewire it myself I think, but why should I at the risk of losing warranty? It's a bit different to reattaching axle boxes which they offer instructions for.

 

As far as I can see all the models are in stock, so an exchange would mean swapping decoder and speaker over on sound models.

 

 

Swapping/fitting a speaker isn't that easy as the wiring is over the top of it. and that wiring doesn't have any slack in it

It can be done without unsoldering wires, but involves lifting the main circuit board and untangling some other twisted wires to enable the wiring to be gently eased out of the way.

Then making sure that when re-assembled, the wiring is in the correct place.

 

Either that or unsoldering and then re-attaching wiring afterwards.

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

 

Swapping/fitting a speaker isn't that easy as the wiring is over the top of it. and that wiring doesn't have any slack in it

It can be done without unsoldering wires, but involves lifting the main circuit board and untangling some other twisted wires to enable the wiring to be gently eased out of the way.

Then making sure that when re-assembled, the wiring is in the correct place.

 

Either that or unsoldering and then re-attaching wiring afterwards.

 

I meant that they should do it, although obviously this would cause turnaround time issues at the moment.

[TomScrut]

9 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

https://www.hattons.co.uk/530720/hattons_originals_h4_66_017_po_class_66_66612_in_freightliner_livery_pre_owned_open_box_renumbered_faulty_mar/stockdetail.aspx

 

Haha just beat you to it!

 

But I wonder if the faulty marker light is actually the problem with them all or something else?

[woodenhead]

2 minutes ago, newbryford said:

 

Swapping/fitting a speaker isn't that easy as the wiring is over the top of it. and that wiring doesn't have any slack in it

It can be done without unsoldering wires, but involves lifting the main circuit board and untangling some other twisted wires to enable the wiring to be gently eased out of the way.

Then making sure that when re-assembled, the wiring is in the correct place.

 

Either that or unsoldering and then re-attaching wiring afterwards.

Having watched the video with someone fitting a speaker I can only think - well done Hattons for leaving a nice big space to install a speaker, bad show on the factory for putting in the minimal amount of wiring over the space whilst leaving coils of wire elsewhere.

[7013]

Well, got round to unpacking mine again and popping it on to my track for a test. No bits in the box...result

Run my loco over my very dirty tracks and points which it negotiated with consumate ease. minor wobble disappeared after a couple of runs up and down the track..result

Lights all working, Fired up the engine, beautiful sound....result

Check all the functions, all working beautifully....result

Switch off pick loco up, admire in close up....whoops six AB covers missing...quick check of the box again, long check of my layout...No ABs. Conclusion? they were never on the loco in the first place. I will ask Hattons for replacements which I will put on as per instructions. To be honest the rotating ABs were a good idea but they are IMO not worth the bother.

I will replace mine and see how they go, if they are going to fall off frequently I will simply cut the attaching bit off and glue the cover in place.and live with a non rotating AB..

It is a wonderful machine that clearly elevates the model to a new level in terms of sound, lights and detail, what a shame it is marred by silly poor QA

[Damo666]

1 hour ago, TomScrut said:

This is an interesting item though, one can only speculate as to what's gone on here:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/530720/hattons_originals_h4_66_017_po_class_66_66612_in_freightliner_livery_pre_owned_open_box_renumbered_faulty_mar/stockdetail.aspx

 

Am I missing something?

Pre-owned + Renumbered + Faulty marker light = £5 off the full price.

[woodenhead]

4 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

Am I missing something?

Pre-owned + Renumbered + Faulty marker light = £5 off the full price.

It's unique 

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, Damo666 said:

 

Am I missing something?

Pre-owned + Renumbered + Faulty marker light = £5 off the full price.

 

Other than most of the pre-owned stuff they sell seems to be on the dear side.

 

IF the fault is actually the one the rest of the big light ones have (could be as simple as that's why it was returned and the person in returns said that was the case and so got listed like that), then the renumber (if done well) could add desirability as it saves the potential buyer doing something they aren't comfortable with.

 

I did see on Facebook earlier somebody wanting to sell a Dapol 68 that was sold to him by Hattons used with faulty lights at one end. I just mentioned are the switches in the right place as the 6 function configuration puts the lights on one end onto different outputs. Anyway that's all that was wrong with it but Hattons just thought it was dodgy.

Edited April 7, 2020 by TomScrut

[TomScrut]

24 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

its the large headlight model isnt it,perhaps testing the water to see how they can off load the returns as long as theres no issue otherwise and you know when you buy it so no comeback on them

 

 

Yeah it would be interesting to know if there was another issue or if it's just saying it so it doesn't come back again!

 

The issue on mine would only affect anyone putting a 10 function decoder in, wouldn't bother most people (and if it's the case on other locos most would be none the wiser).

[Pteremy]

This may have been addressed earlier in this thread, but is there any suggestion that Hatton's accelerated their releases in response to the Hornby spoiler?

 

These locos are not my era, and i have a lot of sympathy for the complaints. But equally our hobby needs innovators, people not afraid to take a few risks. I don't see Hornby as innovators, even though they produce some excellent products. Should we cut Hatton's some slack, whilst asking them how they intend to pick it up?

[truffy]

32 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

is there any suggestion that Hatton's accelerated their releases in response to the Hornby spoiler?

 

If there wasn't, there is now!

 

32 minutes ago, Pteremy said:

our hobby needs innovators, people not afraid to take a few risks.

 

I don't think anyone could disagree with that. But this is not a question of innovation, it's a question of QC.

[3rd Rail Exile]

1 hour ago, Pteremy said:

This may have been addressed earlier in this thread, but is there any suggestion that Hatton's accelerated their releases in response to the Hornby spoiler?

 

I thought in this case the spoiler was Bachmann reducing the price of their 66s - I don't think the Hornby 66 provides any real competition...

 

Hornby might be guilty of "robust business practices" as regards other models (Terriers, Class 91s), but I don't recall anything with the Class 66 (though I'm happy to be corrected if my memory has lapsed...). 

 

Hornby have innovations, but I can see why the modern image DCC modeller might not notice, or rate them as interesting...

[Edna Clouds]

4 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

Swapping/fitting a speaker isn't that easy as the wiring is over the top of it. and that wiring doesn't have any slack in it

It can be done without unsoldering wires, but involves lifting the main circuit board and untangling some other twisted wires to enable the wiring to be gently eased out of the way.

Then making sure that when re-assembled, the wiring is in the correct place.

 

Either that or unsoldering and then re-attaching wiring afterwards.

I put Bif's decoder and an EM2 speaker in 66789 shortly after it arrived just before Christmas. The wires that went over the speaker glory hole didn't need any desoldering or cutting ... they were in a loose loop under the nearest bit of black tape which gave some slack and I released more wires from their little cutaway groove in the chassis to give the maximum clearance. Care was required with the pick-up wires from the bogie but all went well, the wires were replaced and great joy has befallen the household ever since. Is there less wire in the latest batch I wonder?

As for Hatton's - no complaints at all and I've been a satisfied customer from my first buying from them in 1974 I think it was.

[Edna Clouds]

20 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

Indeed, I actually ran the model gently for just a few inches immediately after gluing just to check that the 'wobble' had gone, but not too long so as to dislodge the axle-box covers, and then left overnight... 

 

I guess I should have mentioned that in the guide, but hopefully you see what I mean...

 

Al

Yes, ideally to run a couple of revs on the track just as the glue is setting so that it can centre the axle box whilst remaining in position on the axle. I did mine one at a time as well ... slow and time consuming, but it works and makes me smile when up close and can see them revolving. And that's what matters!

[newbryford]

13 minutes ago, Edna Clouds said:

Yes, ideally to run a couple of revs on the track just as the glue is setting so that it can centre the axle box whilst remaining in position on the axle. I did mine one at a time as well ... slow and time consuming, but it works and makes me smile when up close and can see them revolving. And that's what matters!

 

Rather than superglue, how about some with a bit of "give" such as Evostik or UHU?

[newbryford]

25 minutes ago, Edna Clouds said:

I put Bif's decoder and an EM2 speaker in 66789 shortly after it arrived just before Christmas. The wires that went over the speaker glory hole didn't need any desoldering or cutting ... they were in a loose loop under the nearest bit of black tape which gave some slack and I released more wires from their little cutaway groove in the chassis to give the maximum clearance. Care was required with the pick-up wires from the bogie but all went well, the wires were replaced and great joy has befallen the household ever since. Is there less wire in the latest batch I wonder?

As for Hatton's - no complaints at all and I've been a satisfied customer from my first buying from them in 1974 I think it was.

 

Possibly two batches of wiring.

The sound fitted one I had and the replacement non-sound, both had the same length of wires. i.e no spare give on the LED wiring, but the pickup wires were quite long.

 

 

[YesTor]

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

 

Rather than superglue, how about some with a bit of "give" such as Evostik or UHU?

 

Totally with you on that score!  I always try and find something else as an alternative, whatever the job, and generally use Superglue/cyanoacrylate/cyano as an absolute last resort for anything - just a personal thing, but I hate the stuff: unforgiving, often doesn't actually glue whatever it is you want it to glue , and generally renders anything it comes into contact with as unusable for any future purpose.  Plus using something less 'permanent' means you can always go back at a later date if you wish to modify/update your models in any way.  I especially didn't wish to bung up the 66's bogies with Superglue, as I always like to be able to have anything mechanical left as accessible as possible, for future maintenance purposes.  I am mindful that Supergluing the axle-boxes in place could render the axles quite tricky to remove, should there ever be a need to strip down the wheel-sets, motor, gearbox arrangement, for a degrease-and-reassemble - which would likely be quite rare to actually need to do, but it's good to leave the option open.  Incidentally, I apply that rule to any loco not just for the purpose of the 66.

 

Al 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by YesTor

[newbryford]

4 minutes ago, YesTor said:

 

Totally with you on that score!  I always try and find something else as an alternative, whatever the job, and generally use Superglue/cyanoacrylate/cyano as an absolute last resort for anything - just a personal thing, but I hate the stuff: unforgiving, often doesn't actually glue whatever it is you want it to glue , and generally renders anything it comes into contact with as unusable for any future purpose.  Plus using something less 'permanent' means you can always go back at a later date if you wish to modify/update your models in any way.  I especially didn't wish to bung up the 66's bogies with Superglue, as I always like to be able to have anything mechanical left as accessible as possible, for future maintenance purposes.  I am mindful that Supergluing the axle-boxes in place could render the axles quite tricky to remove, should there ever be a need to strip down the wheel-sets, motor, gearbox arrangement, for a degrease-and-reassemble - which would likely be quite rare to actually need to do, but it's good to leave the option open.  Incidentally, I apply that rule to any loco not just for the purpose of the 66.

 

Al 

 

 

PVA is also very good for fixing plastic/metal things in place that may need removing later. 

 

I (do not) await the time when a Hatttons 66 need a proper service and removal of the chassis undertray. Removal of axleboxes will be required.

[TomScrut]

2 hours ago, 3rd Rail Exile said:

I don't recall anything with the Class 66 (though I'm happy to be corrected if my memory has lapsed...). 

 

IIRC there were comments on the James May program like "why did you have to choose the 66?" or words to that effect, although I don't know how much of that was TV dramatisation and I don't think it was at the level the Terrier was in terms of reaction.

[newbryford]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

IIRC there were comments on the James May program like "why did you have to choose the 66?" or words to that effect, although I don't know how much of that was TV dramatisation and I don't think it was at the level the Terrier was in terms of reaction.

 

I reckon that was done for editorial fulfilment and the need to satisfy the popular viewers.How else could model railways be shown as "exciting and intrigue-ridden"?

 

The Hornby 66 does not compete with the Hattons (or for that matter, the Bachmann) 66.

 

The Hornby Terrier however - was/is in direct competition with the Rails/Dapol version but that's O/T for here.

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, newbryford said:

I reckon that was done for editorial fulfilment and the need to satisfy the popular viewers.How else could model railways be shown as "exciting and intrigue-ridden"?

 

The Hornby 66 does not compete with the Hattons (or for that matter, the Bachmann) 66.

 

I agree, completely different markets. Especially with Bachmann being piggy in the middle in both cost and features. I think if Bachmann could do them for around £100 each it would cause both competitors a lot of pain. At the moment they are (before large discounts) a bit too far away from Hornby and a bit too near Hattons, although given the circumstances I can see why some would opt for a Bachmann over a Hattons I think most would take their chances with the Hattons. I suppose we don't know Bachmann's hand either, the tooling will probably have been long paid off so probably have more manoeuvrability than the other two as well. Can't see Hornby being able to go down and Hatton's I doubt will be able to move up without sorting problems out, whether they can go down is anyone's guess but I bet it won't be far!

[YesTor]

Bodyshell reassemby

 

Okay, this may be useful for anyone struggling with reassembly of those delicate bodyshell components.  I'm in no way suggesting that this is the only way, there may well be better methods, but this certainly works for me in keeping those 'dangly' footsteps and pipes under control:

 

1.  Lightly attach a piece of thin scrap card (make sure the card is quite flexible) with a small piece of masking tape (or other low-tack tape) behind each cab door.  Having experimented a few times I'll say that's it's quite important to use low-tack tape and ensure only small sections actually affix the card to the body, as you need to be able to slide the pieces of card and tape out easily as you reassemble:

 

 

 

2.  Ensure that each piece of card protects the delicate handrails as you carefully introduce the bodyshell to the chassis for reassembly, carefully aligning the doorways with their respective steps on the bogies:

 

 

 

3.  Begin to gently apply pressure, pushing the body downwards and ensure that all four doorways are looking like the one below as you push down.  Don't force it, if something feels stubborn or over-tight then it's better to slide the body off and start again rather than risk breaking something.  Watch those tiny pipes too directly under the grilles on each side, as they have a tendency to sneak inside the chassis block, when they should remain very much outside, as pictured:

 

 

 

4.  As soon as you can feel the body begin to ease on nicely, it becomes preferable at this point to actually lift the model and apply light pressure to the top mid-roof area to gently slide the shell equally on all sides the rest of the way down.  Importantly, in fact vitally, ensure that the handrail and step assemblies under each doorway are all intact and haven't folded underneath themselves.  Keep checking as well that those delicate pipes remain outside of the chassis block:

 

 

 

5.  Okay, at about this point you need to begin to slide the pieces of card out at the same time as you apply gentle downward pressure to the bodyshell just as it reaches that last lap before snapping back into place.  If for some reason the card won't release then it likely means that the tape is stuck too firmly inside - remember, small and lightly tacky is all you need [see pic 1].  Again, check that the handrails and steps on all four doorways remain outside and protected by the card pieces at all times:

 

 

 

6.  And that's about it... pieces of card removed, bodyshell squarely back in place; handrails, steps and pipework all neat and undamaged, as they should be:

 

 

 

The key thing is to take your time, and if something feels forced or strained then go back and start again.  It's not a race! 

 

Best

Al

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by YesTor

[newbryford]

 

Excellent explanation/description.

 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

21 hours ago, Johnfromoz said:

Danny,

 

A considered, balanced and thoughtful posting.  I thoroughly agree.  Marcus is to be be commended, not attacked for highlighting  the manifest quality control issues relating to this model.

 

John

 

I completely agree John. 

 

With all reviews for any model we have to be critical when evaluating them, scoring them etc. But this is especially the case when their are known QC issues and errors. If everyone was to simple ignore these and not highlight such issues in videos then it could result in more people spending money on models with said QC issues and then this means that more people are disappointed. At least if more people are aware of such truthful and honest reviews and do indeed watch them, those who still do wish to consider buying one/some models can still do so but they will known of any potential issues before they actual pay for the 66s. Those who are still undecided on whether to buy one/some 66s can make a more informed decision of the pros and cons of the model, and also consider if they have the skills, knowledge and ability to rectify the QC issues if they do indeed receive an affected model. As I mentioned previously, even with the guides and assistance provided by other forum members above, which is greatly appreciated, I would still be very hesitant in undertaking such work myself on such expensive models. After all we were advised that these models would be 'ready to run' and not 'kit form, kit build etc'. 

 

I had already decided prior to watching the video that I wasn't going to buy any of the Hattons 66s. With this in mind the video certainly assured me that I had made the right decision for myself. Others may feel confident that they could rectify any of the issues, but I don't, so again this is why such thorough, detailed, honest reviews are useful, because every individual can take the information away and make the right decision for themselves. 

 

Kind Regards, 

 

Danny.