Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[big jim]

 

2 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

People seem to have finished complaining about the Hattons one on here. Most must either have got their dodgy ones fixed or sent back.

nah, we’ve just been distracted by other shiny things...

 

[Phil Parker]

This is the Hattons Class 66 thread.

 

If you want to talk about the Hornby model, there is a thread for this.

[JohnC]

To get back on track, here is the latest edition to Parkway fleet.

Another one of Hattons superb class 66 locos in the guise of 66593.

Gently taken apart and Zimo 6 function decoder fitted.  Once again, removed rotating axle ends and drilled hole to 3mm.  Runs superbly.

Weathering completed with my airbrush and Humbrol weathering powder.  Absolutely delighted with the loco, which is my third one and a fourth on order.

 

[JohnC]

5 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

@JohnCThats a fabulous sceen,you have a really nice layout,thanks for the views of your work.

Thank you Eric Alltorque, glad you like it

[YesTor]

@JohnC Looks lovely with a bit of weathering.  

Edited May 4, 2020 by YesTor

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, YesTor said:

@JohnC Looks lovely with a bit of weathering.  

Thank you - I used Railmatch track dirt for the main base chassis weathering and it really does highlight the intricate details on the model.

I have not weathered my EWS and Large logo locos yes but they will definitely be next.

Really looking forward to the arrival of the Freightliner ONE liveried 66 - already have intermodal loaded with several ONE containers.

[Sir TophamHatt]

Well, my tale has not reached a good end.

 

While I thank @Hattons Dave for his work in moving this along, I'm still more than saddened about this.

 

In the essence of transparency, here's my timeline of events:

 

26/03: Received loco in the post.

27/03: Detailed wobbling issues in my post.

28/03: Contacted Hatton's online chat for support on wobbling.  Suggested running in more.

30/03: Loco had been ran in for nearly 2 hours each way (an hour each way) by this time.

14/04: Loco sent back.

20/04: Telephone call (note: quite quick after sending loco back) to say they can offer one of two other locos as a replacement.
20/04: Replied asking if the chip and speaker could be put in a non-DCC sound model.
20/04: Hatton's says no as the service department is closed.
20/04: Replied saying I'm happy for them to keep it there (for months) until the service department is open.  Gave a list of three other locos I'd be happy to accept if my original one isn't in stock.

25/04: Chase email sent.

28/04: Hatton's Dave asks me to email in.  Email duly sent.

29/04: Email from Hatton's apologising that the service department still isn't open.  My email would go back to the returns team.
29/04: Replied saying thanks, re-iterating I am happy to leave it with them until the department is open.

01/05: Hatton's reply saying it's not possible for them to keep it any more.  "As an alternative, you may wish to have this replaced with with a standard model and then once our fitting service resumes, you could then send this model into us to be DCC sound fitted at a later date?"
01/05: I reply double checking this will be free of charge for me (IE: Hatton's posting it out, me returning it for fitting, then they send it back to me).

05/04: Reply from Hatton's stating "In regards to purchasing a standard DC model, it would be required that you would need to arrange for the model to be sent back to us and we would then fit the loco and charge you for the decoder and service, in addition the return postage."

05/04: Replied to clarify whether I'd have to pay more or not, or what?

 

So it seems the options are:
1) Have my original loco back, which I will break trying to fix it myself.
2) It seems, pay extra for them adding sound at a later date + postage both ways.

3) Don't have this loco.

 

I don't think me asking them to put it somewhere with a standard DC one and a note for them to service later on is unreasonable.  Nor have they suggested sending the original loco back, then I send it back to them when the service desk is properly open either (which seems like just a waste of postage on their part anyway).  Is that unreasonable?

 

*sigh* - I think it's got to the point where I don't even want it any more.

I will only update at the conclusion of this saga.

[Unit basher]

I've purchased 3 of these models & all have issues with the bogies wobbling, the rotating axleboxes falling off & some not attached when delivered.

 

I'm sad as I missed out on the first batch & it's the one model I have most eagerly awaited. 

 

not sure what to do with them now I'm thinking of returning them & sticking with my trusty Bachmann models.

 

I wonder how many others have had this issue?

[Guest Half-full]

18 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Well, my tale has not reached a good end.

 

So it seems the options are:
1) Have my original loco back, which I will break trying to fix it myself.
2) It seems, pay extra for them adding sound at a later date + postage both ways.

3) Don't have this loco.

 

I don't think me asking them to put it somewhere with a standard DC one and a note for them to service later on is unreasonable.  Nor have they suggested sending the original loco back, then I send it back to them when the service desk is properly open either (which seems like just a waste of postage on their part anyway).  Is that unreasonable?

 

*sigh* - I think it's got to the point where I don't even want it any more.

I will only update at the conclusion of this saga.

 

Its only a saga because you are making it one.

 

Hattons' are being perfectly reasonable in what they are offering you.  Why should they hold it at their premises until the DCC fitting service can be restarted, when no doubt there will already be a huge backlog?  Its not their fault that you think you'll break the loco fitting DCC yourself.

 

 

[7013]

4 hours ago, Unit basher said:

I've purchased 3 of these models & all have issues with the bogies wobbling, the rotating axleboxes falling off & some not attached when delivered.

 

I'm sad as I missed out on the first batch & it's the one model I have most eagerly awaited. 

 

not sure what to do with them now I'm thinking of returning them & sticking with my trusty Bachmann models.

 

I wonder how many others have had this issue?

If you look back through the pages you will find that the issues you describe have been a running theme for some time.

Some have found that with running in the wobble disappears, others have returned their locos as unsatisfactory and got a replacement/refund

The axle boxes are either completely missing as in my case, or fall out fairly quickly. If you have the boxes there have been various suggestions on how to  fix them back in or cut the tops off and simply glue them in place (i.e. non rotating axle boxes). Hattons will send you replacements for any missing boxes.

In fairness to Hattons they have been pretty supportive on the whole and clearly did not envisage the problems occurring. 

The problem with forums it is difficult to ascertain what percentage of problematic locos there have been because we get a concentration of the problems here. Hopefully if Hattons commission further models the problems will be solved so missing out on the first batch and waiting may be the best option. Of course the Bachmann model is an option, it is generally not as well detailed, but it is reliable and a good loco.

Edited May 6, 2020 by 7013

[truffy]

24 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Its only a saga because you are making it one.

You obviously think that it's acceptable for Hattons to supply faulty goods and then expect the customer to pay extra (postage, fitting) to get it replaced with an equivalent model. Good for you...and for any shops doing business with you!

[john new]

1 hour ago, Half-full said:

 

  Its not their fault that you think you'll break the loco fitting DCC yourself.

 

 

 

Ah but it is, they have designed a body shell that a consensus of owners are in agreement on - it is to say the least flimsy. (Being fair that is not just Hattons -  the Bachmann 08 has some equally stupid design aspects  that can best be described as body removal inhibitors.)

[Guest Half-full]

2 hours ago, truffy said:

You obviously think that it's acceptable for Hattons to supply faulty goods and then expect the customer to pay extra (postage, fitting) to get it replaced with an equivalent model. Good for you...and for any shops doing business with you!

Hattons offered a refund as the exact model was out of stock, offered alternatives or a refund, as they should.  They dont need to do anything else.  The poster is wanting something done that Hattons' arent able to do, simple as that.

 

God help being a shop having deal with you if you think they should do anything else.

[Guest Half-full]

1 hour ago, john new said:

 

Ah but it is, they have designed a body shell that a consensus of owners are in agreement on - it is to say the least flimsy. (Being fair that is not just Hattons -  the Bachmann 08 has some equally stupid design aspects  that can best be described as body removal inhibitors.)

There are plenty of people who have taken the shell off the 66 with no breakage problems, and likewise with the Bachmann 08.  I've no idea how many of the latter I've taken the top off and had no problems.

 

Study the model, take your time, no breakages.

[newbryford]

11 minutes ago, Half-full said:

 

 

Study the model, take your time, no breakages.

 

It may be worth repeating YesTor's excellent anti-breakage instructions.

 

[Edna Clouds]

22 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Well, my tale has not reached a good end.

 

While I thank @Hattons Dave for his work in moving this along, I'm still more than saddened about this.

 

In the essence of transparency, here's my timeline of events:

 

26/03: Received loco in the post.

27/03: Detailed wobbling issues in my post.

28/03: Contacted Hatton's online chat for support on wobbling.  Suggested running in more.

30/03: Loco had been ran in for nearly 2 hours each way (an hour each way) by this time.

14/04: Loco sent back.

20/04: Telephone call (note: quite quick after sending loco back) to say they can offer one of two other locos as a replacement.
20/04: Replied asking if the chip and speaker could be put in a non-DCC sound model.
20/04: Hatton's says no as the service department is closed.
20/04: Replied saying I'm happy for them to keep it there (for months) until the service department is open.  Gave a list of three other locos I'd be happy to accept if my original one isn't in stock.

25/04: Chase email sent.

28/04: Hatton's Dave asks me to email in.  Email duly sent.

29/04: Email from Hatton's apologising that the service department still isn't open.  My email would go back to the returns team.
29/04: Replied saying thanks, re-iterating I am happy to leave it with them until the department is open.

01/05: Hatton's reply saying it's not possible for them to keep it any more.  "As an alternative, you may wish to have this replaced with with a standard model and then once our fitting service resumes, you could then send this model into us to be DCC sound fitted at a later date?"
01/05: I reply double checking this will be free of charge for me (IE: Hatton's posting it out, me returning it for fitting, then they send it back to me).

05/04: Reply from Hatton's stating "In regards to purchasing a standard DC model, it would be required that you would need to arrange for the model to be sent back to us and we would then fit the loco and charge you for the decoder and service, in addition the return postage."

05/04: Replied to clarify whether I'd have to pay more or not, or what?

 

So it seems the options are:
1) Have my original loco back, which I will break trying to fix it myself.
2) It seems, pay extra for them adding sound at a later date + postage both ways.

3) Don't have this loco.

 

I don't think me asking them to put it somewhere with a standard DC one and a note for them to service later on is unreasonable.  Nor have they suggested sending the original loco back, then I send it back to them when the service desk is properly open either (which seems like just a waste of postage on their part anyway).  Is that unreasonable?

 

*sigh* - I think it's got to the point where I don't even want it any more.

I will only update at the conclusion of this saga.

"I will break trying to fix" ... I think that's called negative goal setting.

[7013]

Finally got around to re-fixing the axleboxes (AB) on to my 66 and run it on my test track. Now my loco has been up and running for a little while I have mixed feelings about it. There is a lot to admire about the loco, but in some respects it is tainted by perhaps ‘a bridge too far’ in terms of functionality. 
My negativity is driven by two aspects. Firstly I had 6 ABs missing, I replaced them and glued them in place. I ran the loco for a while, no wobble but the ABs continued to fall out, they will be trimmed and glued in place, because it is too much of a faff to keep fixing them. Secondly the lights, now I believe this is an anomaly with my Z21 control in that when I switch from day to night running it will not switch back, in fact all the lights are extinguished and removing the loco from the track and replacing it, or doing a CV8 factory reset was the only way to return them to daytime running. why I believe this is a Z21 issue is because everything worked perfectly with my Lenz controller. As I will probably run on daytime lights for 99% of the time I can just about live with this. 
One of the buffers dropped off but I have had that sort of thing happen on many new models. 
There is lots of good though, the detail is excellent and the 66 really looks the part. Then there is the sound, when you start the engine up it almost explodes into life and really sounds the powerful and imposing loco it is. The sound really sells this loco.

I can only compare this to my other recent purchase and my favourite loco; my Kernow D600 Warship, and have to say in my opinion only, the 66 cannot hold a candle to the Warship. OK it is not as sophisticated as the 66 but it sounds wonderful, everything works perfectly Nothing falls off and it is rightly model of the year. I have two Warships, would I buy another Hattons 66? Not a chance, unless they sort out the negatives. Like I said....a bridge too far for me 

Edited May 7, 2020 by 7013
Clarity

[TomScrut]

6 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

The sound kits can be installed by DC kits after you have good running models.

 

For a lot more money than the premium paid when done at the factory. Which I think is the crux of the issue

 

And just to be clear I know why that will is the case and I aren't being critical of DC kits, it's a lot more work for them at higher labour rates.

 

It'sthat when somebody has bought a sound model they are understandably disappointed at either having to pay for it to be moved from one loco to another by the company who should have supplied a satisfactory loco to begin with or do without.

Edited May 6, 2020 by TomScrut

[martin_l_jones]

My first 66789 DCC fitted had serious wobble and derailing issues. This was replaced within a week and fortunately the replacement runs fine and it arrived intact. Ironically it’s now lost two axle boxes in normal running over three months. Found one and presume the other is in a hidden section. To be fair Hattons sent out a pack of replacements within twenty four hours and I re-fitted although I did open up the hole out in the AB slightly to allow a slide push fit. I placed the glue on a pin and touched the end of the axle with the loco upside down and through the bottom of the bogie to avoid getting any on the hole. Then took the decision to remove the body to fit a driver. I used some paper to spring out the handrails and carefully slid the body off the chassis.

The difficult bit was getting the lower ends of the handrails back into the holes on the body, but perseverance and now all good. Had to touch in a couple of places with white paint but nothing major. Runs really well just wondering whether I’ll loose any more ABs. I think the model is a step forward and sounds like I am one of the lucky ones.

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

hes not wanting to take it apart

 

Which I presume was one of the motivations behind ordering factory sound. If they sold one from factory with a LokPilot V5 in it I would be having those! Whilst they can be taken to bits without damage, it is not a easy or quick process compared to other locos. I can get into my Dapol 68 or Hornby 60, both very respected models in terms of detail AFAIK, in about 15 seconds without doing damage meaning faffing about is not a chore.

 

5 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

and if you mention this theres a raft of well you cannot expect ever one checked as it costs money.

 

As it does cost money, IIRC the original argument was about test running at the factory, which my response at the time was that if the right processes were in place and adhered to they wouldn't need it. With respect to Hattons opening every box and checking, from a customer perspective maybe they should. Food for thought though, the one I sent back, 75% of people (as a guess) wouldn't have found the error as it was only with the 10 function decoder settings it happened and it was a DC loco from them so most will be destined for DC, 2 4 or 6 function DCC I would expect. They got unlucky sending that one to me, although I have yet to hear of another with that issue luckily.

 

5 hours ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

they are sold by the sound option

 

I bought mine without sound! So not all are sold purely because it has a very good sound file. The model definitely has plenty of other things going for it.

 

I aren't disagreeing that there are plenty of issues with these models, I am simply discussing my point of view against yours on the subtleties of the hows and whys.

Edited May 6, 2020 by TomScrut
Typo

[7013]

From a consumer point of view it would be nice to know that any future runs will have the problems (Axle boxes, wobble, glue marks etc.) addressed so that we could order with confidence. I am sure I am not alone in feeling that it is not worth gambling substantial amount of money on a product that continues to give problems. I am not sure how Hattons would address this; it may be by pointing out to the manufacturing plant the short comings and redesign them, or indeed using another plant, the latter of which could be very expensive. Or indeed, call it a day on what has been a pretty inauspicious model that promised much and indeed delivered much, but some of it was not wanted by Hattons or the consumer. Hattons may have had their fingers burned but It is about 95% there and I for one hope they will produce further versions.

[Br60066]

24 minutes ago, 7013 said:

From a consumer point of view it would be nice to know that any future runs will have the problems (Axle boxes, wobble, glue marks etc.) addressed so that we could order with confidence. I am sure I am not alone in feeling that it is not worth gambling substantial amount of money on a product that continues to give problems. I am not sure how Hattons would address this; it may be by pointing out to the manufacturing plant the short comings and redesign them, or indeed using another plant, the latter of which could be very expensive. Or indeed, call it a day on what has been a pretty inauspicious model that promised much and indeed delivered much, but some of it was not wanted by Hattons or the consumer. Hattons may have had their fingers burned but It is about 95% there and I for one hope they will produce further versions.

I know this is far from an ideal solution, but I have noticed (both from comments on this forum and my own experience) that glue marks only affect models with fitted name plates. If you are worried about glue marks you would be safer to buy one of the models with no name plates. This makes me think Hatton’s could solve the glue marks problem by not pre attaching the name plates but instead supplying nameplates in the box for the buyer to fit and printing a nameplate on the model like other manufacturers approach. This also means people could fit aftermarket name plates if they preferred easily.

This of course raises the question “Are modellers happy to fit nameplates?” but that is a question for the model rail industry as a whole.

[7013]

Ironically I have a 'named' 66 but it has no glue marks at all. I was highlighting the reported problems, not necessarily my problems. 

[Legend]

On 05/05/2020 at 15:34, Sir TophamHatt said:

Well, my tale has not reached a good end.

 

While I thank @Hattons Dave for his work in moving this along, I'm still more than saddened about this.

 

In the essence of transparency, here's my timeline of events:

 

26/03: Received loco in the post.

27/03: Detailed wobbling issues in my post.

28/03: Contacted Hatton's online chat for support on wobbling.  Suggested running in more.

30/03: Loco had been ran in for nearly 2 hours each way (an hour each way) by this time.

14/04: Loco sent back.

20/04: Telephone call (note: quite quick after sending loco back) to say they can offer one of two other locos as a replacement.
20/04: Replied asking if the chip and speaker could be put in a non-DCC sound model.
20/04: Hatton's says no as the service department is closed.
20/04: Replied saying I'm happy for them to keep it there (for months) until the service department is open.  Gave a list of three other locos I'd be happy to accept if my original one isn't in stock.

25/04: Chase email sent.

28/04: Hatton's Dave asks me to email in.  Email duly sent.

29/04: Email from Hatton's apologising that the service department still isn't open.  My email would go back to the returns team.
29/04: Replied saying thanks, re-iterating I am happy to leave it with them until the department is open.

01/05: Hatton's reply saying it's not possible for them to keep it any more.  "As an alternative, you may wish to have this replaced with with a standard model and then once our fitting service resumes, you could then send this model into us to be DCC sound fitted at a later date?"
01/05: I reply double checking this will be free of charge for me (IE: Hatton's posting it out, me returning it for fitting, then they send it back to me).

05/04: Reply from Hatton's stating "In regards to purchasing a standard DC model, it would be required that you would need to arrange for the model to be sent back to us and we would then fit the loco and charge you for the decoder and service, in addition the return postage."

05/04: Replied to clarify whether I'd have to pay more or not, or what?

 

So it seems the options are:
1) Have my original loco back, which I will break trying to fix it myself.
2) It seems, pay extra for them adding sound at a later date + postage both ways.

3) Don't have this loco.

 

I don't think me asking them to put it somewhere with a standard DC one and a note for them to service later on is unreasonable.  Nor have they suggested sending the original loco back, then I send it back to them when the service desk is properly open either (which seems like just a waste of postage on their part anyway).  Is that unreasonable?

 

*sigh* - I think it's got to the point where I don't even want it any more.

I will only update at the conclusion of this saga.

 I’m truly sorry for your issues here . No experience of Hattons 66 but I know what it’s like to receive a defective model. I think your last sigh  answers the question . Looks like you won’t get any joy of ownership . I’d say just get a refund .  Pick up one of these models at a later date when problems are resolved and you see one you want . 

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

The sound fitted models have all but 3 sold out on pre order so from Hattons point of view its a winner

 

Yes, the question is that we don't know what proportion were sound fitted. I'd argue they should have made more regardless but given the uptake on sound vs DCC vs DC I think the DC ones must outnumber the other two combined or be 25/25/50. Purely because sound is a lot of money for a loco, and you get people like me who would rather have 3 DC/DCC fitted ones and some change than 2 sound ones. Because they will also think (I expect) that they can make money of fitting services going forwards on DC ones.

 

24 minutes ago, Br60066 said:

that glue marks only affect models with fitted name plates

 

Whilst there may be some correlation with your observations I aren't sure there is any logic to this as the nameplates seem to be fastened on with tape.

 

22 minutes ago, Br60066 said:

This of course raises the question “Are modellers happy to fit nameplates?” but that is a question for the model rail industry as a whole

 

Good point, and I think most people are aren't they? I think my Hattons 66s are the only locos I have where I haven't had to fit my own.