TomScrut Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 16 minutes ago, Class 158 productions said: Although the qc seems to be in the dirt for all major manufacturers atm. Yep, Hattons aren't alone in this IMO, my last Heljan and Hornby purchases (both new releases) both have livery screw ups in one way or another. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 158 productions Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, TomScrut said: Yep, Hattons aren't alone in this IMO, my last Heljan and Hornby purchases (both new releases) both have livery screw ups in one way or another. Same here, idk if it’s just me. But I am noticing more flaws, maybe I’m just paying too much attention, but the prices are so high now. I’m noticing more and more little things, like some paint chips on the stairs of the 66 and detail not sitting quite right, obviously I’m sounding pedantic. But if they are going to put so much detail on, at least get it right Edited July 14, 2020 by Class 158 productions 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 The DRS print alignment of the D68 springs to mind as well - which was a pity, and well resolved, as the rest of the locomotive is brilliant. This is the H66 thread so I should remain on it. Mine runs very well, is super smooth and obviously very powerful - just as it should be. Al. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 On 13/07/2020 at 23:23, atom3624 said: The other thing is what there is of an axle stub isn't 'laser cut perpendicular' at the end - it's rounded somewhat - leaving less to bind to. I put 12 Freightliner hoppers, with loads onto my 4th radius 'test track', and found a recent-model Bachmann 44, and slightly older 40 couldn't haul them. My Northern Belle Bachmann 57 can, JUST. I have a Bachmann Freightliner 70, but if the others are having issues, that's got no chance, weighing 150g less!! I currently have a Heljan 52 out, which hauled without problem, just a bit slower than normal. The H66 was slower than I've seen but still had no problems at all - virtually nose-to-tail around the 4th radius circle. Very impressive hauler, probably better than the 52, but that in itself was impressive. Must get the Heljan 58 on it. Bachmann 37's had no chance. Interesting to be reminded just what an impressive locomotive this Hattons 66 is, AB-bleating aside. Al. In defence of the Bachmann Class 37... That is 19 MBA wagons, mostly with loads. This is one wagon longer than the consists I used to see travelling through North London. It can also be comfortably managed by a Heljan 58, Bachmann 66 and a Hornby Class 60. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 14, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 14, 2020 (edited) On 13/07/2020 at 23:23, atom3624 said: The other thing is what there is of an axle stub isn't 'laser cut perpendicular' at the end - it's rounded somewhat - leaving less to bind to. I put 12 Freightliner hoppers, with loads onto my 4th radius 'test track', and found a recent-model Bachmann 44, and slightly older 40 couldn't haul them. My Northern Belle Bachmann 57 can, JUST. I have a Bachmann Freightliner 70, but if the others are having issues, that's got no chance, weighing 150g less!! I currently have a Heljan 52 out, which hauled without problem, just a bit slower than normal. The H66 was slower than I've seen but still had no problems at all - virtually nose-to-tail around the 4th radius circle. Very impressive hauler, probably better than the 52, but that in itself was impressive. Must get the Heljan 58 on it. Bachmann 37's had no chance. Interesting to be reminded just what an impressive locomotive this Hattons 66 is, AB-bleating aside. Al. try a Heljan DPU out... its a brick on wheels. Massively over engineered, for something which in real life pulled next to nothing. Not sure if the factory spec had a 1:1 ratio for haulage on a 1:76 model. Theres a video out there of one pulling nearly 40 coaches. Edited July 14, 2020 by adb968008 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Liking the 37 video, and no need to defend. I'd already found the problem - the pinpoints in their sockets. Hopefully once I get the inserts sorted, I can see better performances, and put less strain on the locomotives. Al. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 20 hours ago, Roy Langridge said: No idea why Heljan made them that way, but their hauling capacity is phenomenal. Roy Great weight ensures good electrical contact with the rails although I would prefer them to be made a little lighter by incorporating a speaker-shaped void. They are very nice models. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 15, 2020 Just now, No Decorum said: Great weight ensures good electrical contact with the rails although I would prefer them to be made a little lighter by incorporating a speaker-shaped void. They are very nice models. Indeed, lost count of how many I have - more than I need. I was fascinated with them when they used to work into Reading when I was there, and I think that just stuck. Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 11 hours ago, letterspider said: In defence of the Bachmann Class 37... That is 19 MBA wagons, mostly with loads. This is one wagon longer than the consists I used to see travelling through North London. It can also be comfortably managed by a Heljan 58, Bachmann 66 and a Hornby Class 60. & pulling the lot around a fairly tight curve too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: & pulling the lot around a fairly tight curve too. It's a hidden section so it's 2nd radius. To the right of the tunnel I am building an elevated section and that is when things will 'get interesting' Getting back on topic - haulage is not going to be a concern for me - I like the ONE livery and the extra detail from Hattons will be a great bonus. Would be nice if they did (heavily) weathered liveries and I am happy to hold out for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said: & pulling the lot around a fairly tight curve too. TBH, when putting a ramp on my layout, with 2nd and 3rd Rad curves, I got the least free running stock I could get my hands on easily - Kernow JIA's of which I have 9, plus a Dummy HST power car and I got a Lima Class 47 to pull, and to push the whole lot up the ramps. I were more than slightly worried as the ramps are pretty intense and well above what is recommended, plus with the curves - but it could start and stop anywhere on them without any problem with adhesion whatsoever. I were more than relieved. With regards to Weathered Class 66's, then I could quite imagine Hattons would want to resolve their current issues with their supplier, without adding an extra complexity of weathering. Plus, its a personal taste issue - as to very heavy (water jet use), heavy, light or inbetween. People can add it easier than it can be removed! Regards, Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, dogbox321 said: With regards to Weathered Class 66's, then I could quite imagine Hattons would want to resolve their current issues with their supplier, without adding an extra complexity of weathering. Plus, its a personal taste issue - as to very heavy (water jet use), heavy, light or inbetween. People can add it easier than it can be removed! I agree! 19 minutes ago, dogbox321 said: well above what is recommended Recommended seems to be a bit of a loose term though from what I can tell. AFAIK 4% is the limit as to what is recommended but what is that? A Hornby Railroad 0-4-0 pulling 20 coaches? Or a Heljan DPU on its own? I'd hazard a guess for example that for most modern image stuff with rakes fit for most layouts that 4% wouldn't be a problem at all. I'd expect the issue will be small locos (shunters etc.) or steamers. Edited July 15, 2020 by TomScrut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2020 1 hour ago, TomScrut said: I agree! Recommended seems to be a bit of a loose term though from what I can tell. AFAIK 4% is the limit as to what is recommended but what is that? A Hornby Railroad 0-4-0 pulling 20 coaches? Or a Heljan DPU on its own? I'd hazard a guess for example that for most modern image stuff with rakes fit for most layouts that 4% wouldn't be a problem at all. I'd expect the issue will be small locos (shunters etc.) or steamers. Worst combination is gradient and curve. 1 in 30 (3.33%) on a 3 foot curve pushes a Bachmann 66 to wheelslip with 13 Dapol HIAs 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 11 minutes ago, newbryford said: Worst combination is gradient and curve. Sorry yes forgot to mention the curves! What you have said is very informative, and actually gives me a decent basis for what I am keen to know for personal reference. 13 HIAs is more than what I would want to run in the short term for example, but a Bachmann 66 is probably around the standard I need to design my layout around as I have two of them, and I think everything else I have where I'd want a long train on is heavier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 15, 2020 15 minutes ago, TomScrut said: Sorry yes forgot to mention the curves! What you have said is very informative, and actually gives me a decent basis for what I am keen to know for personal reference. 13 HIAs is more than what I would want to run in the short term for example, but a Bachmann 66 is probably around the standard I need to design my layout around as I have two of them, and I think everything else I have where I'd want a long train on is heavier. It's not simply the weight of the train. It's the rolling resistance as well. I reckon my set of 18 Revolution TEAs is less draggy than 10 (or maybe less) Dapol HIAs. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 40 minutes ago, newbryford said: It's not simply the weight of the train. It's the rolling resistance as well. I know, my reference to heavier was the loco not the stock itself. I was going to work off you mentioning HIAs and the fact I have HIAs to compare with other things. 44 minutes ago, newbryford said: I reckon my set of 18 Revolution TEAs is less draggy than 10 (or maybe less) Dapol HIAs. Oddly enough though I find my HIAs about the least resistive things I have, probably better than my Revolution TEAs. But the TEAs are better than pretty much everything else I have in terms of resistance. Maybe it's that my HIAs haven't done enough running for the plastic to wear or that the TEAs need an oil, as I presume the bearing will need oil from time to time. A small force meter would be useful for experimentation! Could even give my vehicles power classifications..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 11 hours ago, newbryford said: It's not simply the weight of the train. It's the rolling resistance as well. I reckon my set of 18 Revolution TEAs is less draggy than 10 (or maybe less) Dapol HIAs. Yes, the TEA's run very smoothly - something that Rapido and Revolution go to great lengths to ensure. I know they work to NMRA specified weights and also think the axles on the TEAs go into bearings, as apposed to athe standard moulded inward dimple. Thats why I went for the JIA's, which whilst lighter, I believe are from the same factory as the HIA's, and you have to pretty much apply constant finger force to get them to rotate. The bogie moulding also seems to be a pretty rough plastic, so expect that adds to friction on the axle contact points on the bogie. I wonder if a DCC Concepts reamer may help with the free running on such stock? Just checked - my incline height is 17.5cm and just over 30 feet of straight rising track, with the curves having very a very gentle rise to reduce resistance. Its not fully wired so apart from the tests no other train has gone up it in anger yet! Of course the Lima Class 47 does also have traction tyres on the motor end. Best Wishes, Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 (edited) Sorry - internet lost and duplicated text! Edited July 16, 2020 by dogbox321 Duplicate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted July 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) Was reading the review of Irish Model Railways' (aka Accurscale) new Keg Liner wagon in Rail Express which also has rotating axle boxes - would be interesting to know how they have done that. There is reference to an extend metal axle. And it is designed to allow regauging. I have asked IRM on the Keg thread to see if they will divulge their engineering. Edited July 19, 2020 by ruggedpeak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said: Was reading the review of Irish Model Railways' (aka Accurscale) new Keg Liner wagon in Rail Express which also has rotating axle boxes - would be interesting to know how they have done that. There is reference to an extend metal axle. And it is designed to allow regauging. I have asked IRM on the Keg thread to see if they will divulge their engineering. Whilst it would be interesting I'd think doing it on a wagon would be a lot easier than a loco. I think the main issue stems from having an external bogie moulding that isn't guaranteed to line up with the gearbox. Not something that would be encountered on a wagon bogie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 7 hours ago, TomScrut said: Whilst it would be interesting I'd think doing it on a wagon would be a lot easier than a loco. I think the main issue stems from having an external bogie moulding that isn't guaranteed to line up with the gearbox. Not something that would be encountered on a wagon bogie Rotating axle boxes have been about for a while on North American model locos. I have attached a video of my Scaletrains GE and if you look closely the boxes are rotating. But the key to this feature working successfully is clearance. You can see the hole in which it is rotating is noticeably larger than the box itself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 So is the Hattons Class 66. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Half-full Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 9 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: The 66 is just a scaled down Canadian GM loco to fit ourloading guage,if you are into them the 66 story DVD is a great vid to own as it shows there construction and there was other builds in the factory looking like the above model going to India railways,all seem to have the bearing arangement where the axle end is rotational. Not just a Canadian loco, its prime mover is used in GM GP40, SD40, SD45 etc, thousands of those have been built in various forms and used around the world. Quite a remarkable locomotive line really! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted July 19, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) On 19/07/2020 at 20:16, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: The 66 is just a scaled down Canadian GM loco to fit ourloading gauge,if you are into them the 66 story DVD is a great vid to own as it shows there construction and there was other builds in the factory looking like the above model going to India railways,all seem to have the bearing arangement where the axle end is rotational. Quite a large difference when I saw them side by side being built.. 66522 undergoing testing in Summer 2000, London,Ontario. Edited May 16, 2021 by adb968008 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted July 19, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 19, 2020 10 hours ago, ruggedpeak said: Was reading the review of Irish Model Railways' (aka Accurscale) new Keg Liner wagon in Rail Express which also has rotating axle boxes - would be interesting to know how they have done that. There is reference to an extend metal axle. And it is designed to allow regauging. I have asked IRM on the Keg thread to see if they will divulge their engineering. Rotating ends on a4 wheel wagon (or bogie) will be less of an issue than a 6 wheeler. The centre axle needs sideways float to cope with R2 curves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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