RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted August 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 10/08/2020 at 17:42, newbryford said: At the risk of being controversial - back then , the only real channels to comment were via a strongly worded letter to your favoured magazine. Who were then often accused of not publishing them - or bad reviews - for fear of losing advertising revenue. Nowadays - there is understandably far more freedom for anyone to write what they want to a wider audience via the likes of RMweb/Youtube etc. On a similar vein - with the wider reaches of the internet - it is far easier to hype things up. And then woe betide if it doesn't meet the hype. Expecting any company to respond on every type of social media or the particular one a particular customer chooses is not realistic or feasible. They would need a whole social media team doing nothing else, and that needs paying for. Even global companies struggle with this and many have reverted to a limited number of communication channels for customer interaction. Running any business is challenging especially now, regardless of whether it is the local model shop, Hattons or Hornby. And many staff are dealing with personal challenges in the background. Had a model related fail on many fronts recently and I could have had a total meltdown on here or other social media about it. However some subtle messages led to info being provided and I sat tight. After far longer than might normally be tolerated it has all been resolved without any drama. No doubt with a bit of time Hattons will sort things out on the 66's. PS I have bought 6 locos in lockdown from other established manufacturers and 2 have had to go back for factory related problems - that is a 1/3 failure rate from the red and blue teams. And both readily identifiable with a basic QC process either looking at the model or running it briefly. Maybe I have been unlucky or maybe it is just not easy to get consistently well made product out of China. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted August 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 15, 2020 On 10/08/2020 at 09:27, Colin_McLeod said: Not in this case. It is meant to be 16.5mm. It is an OO model after all. On 11/08/2020 at 04:22, MGR Hooper! said: I'm fairly certain you know what context that statement was made in... Indeed I do. You could not resist the old gauge issue as if it was somehow a 'fault' with the Hattons 66. On 07/08/2020 at 14:42, MGR Hooper! said: - Every model has a fault - YES. Starting with the gauge and then each individual model has it's own specific faults. But is RTR too much of a demand?....SNIP 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dicky L Posted August 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2020 Sound fitted 66783 arrived today from Hattons 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dicky L Posted August 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 20, 2020 Following on from my above post the loco has been run in and runs very smoothly. All axleboxes remained in place during 45 minutes in each direction. Now it heads off to the weatherman. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 7013 Posted August 20, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 20, 2020 First opportunity I have had to run my 66957 on our club test track. I had some issues when I first got it with axle box covers, but they had been glued on but not tested. Well, my loco ran beautifully, negotiated points, no lost axle boxes, no wobbles. I have to say when the Hattons 66 runs properly it is absolutely stunning. I am relieved and pleased in bucket loads. 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham108 Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 I've managed to read through bout a 3rd of this thread and I've not seen any comment regarding the DRS models which were in the 1st batch. Anybody got any and were they in a similar condition to other faulty version or good to go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted August 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, bartram108 said: I've managed to read through bout a 3rd of this thread and I've not seen any comment regarding the DRS models which were in the 1st batch. Anybody got any and were they in a similar condition to other faulty version or good to go? I don't see any reason why they'd be mechanically different to any other models from that batch, i.e. some will be ok and some won't. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 (edited) On 21/08/2020 at 09:27, bartram108 said: I've managed to read through bout a 3rd of this thread and I've not seen any comment regarding the DRS models which were in the 1st batch. Anybody got any and were they in a similar condition to other faulty version or good to go? I've 3 x DRS models in total, and as above: they are mechanically no different to any of the other variants. The liveries are well-applied and to my eye at least appear accurate in terms of shades and positioning of logos, numbering, lining etc. Only one version is named, 'Kingmoor TMD', and the nameplates are easily adjustable on this one should they require any slight repositioning (mine were fine though). 66404 will have the marker light issue, being the 'bug-eyed' version, of course. The lighting arrangement on the other variants are fine. No problems as such with 'bits dropping off', although to be fair I do feel that some of these 'issues' have been grossly exaggerated by some, with people seemingly declaring WWIII due to hitting upon a single loose footstep etc - but that's just my perception... The main issue with all variants is potentially going to be the axle-box covers, which you may well need to fiddle with if you want your model to run as it should, ie. without a 'wobble'. There's no real excuse or way around this, as it's clearly not the greatest design. So essentially, you are either going to be prepared to undertake some minor adjustments in this area, or equally you may not be happy/comfortable/prepared to do so - depending on which ballpark you may fall into. I won't go into detail on how this may/may not be done, as this has been done-to-death earlier on in the topic. The bottom line - I'm happy with my three DRS variants and feel them to be fantastic models, but as above I've been prepared to make the [sometimes] necessary adjustments to accomplish the finely detailed model that I tend to gravitate toward. Not everyone will share the same perspective, of course. I hope this helps... Best Al Edited August 22, 2020 by YesTor 5 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 (edited) Rotating axleboxes, US styleee... concentric-rotating... impressive... A beautiful-looking model, I quite fancy one of those actually... I believe that what some of the US manufacturers are doing (Scaletrains, Intermountain etc) with their HO models is similar to this... although the sample here is apparently O gauge the principle is still the same... basically longer axles and shorter, more precise-fitting end caps, which is what we've been saying all along... Al @Hattons Dave Edited August 22, 2020 by YesTor 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham108 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 On 21/08/2020 at 09:43, spamcan61 said: I don't see any reason why they'd be mechanically different to any other models from that batch, i.e. some will be ok and some won't. I do a lot of consultancy for a motor manufacturer. They have multiple assembly lines. I made an assumption that the model factories will work in the same way so some models could end up being different in the end product. As it appears some models are OK and some aren't, even of the same loco it stands to reason this could be an explanation. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 55 minutes ago, bartram108 said: I do a lot of consultancy for a motor manufacturer. They have multiple assembly lines. I made an assumption that the model factories will work in the same way so some models could end up being different in the end product. As it appears some models are OK and some aren't, even of the same loco it stands to reason this could be an explanation. I know in the case of Bachmann (from previous articles in the collectors club), they have multiple production lines - each of capable of producing 5xx units a day, hence Bachmann L/E's being a minimum of 504/512. It would make sense to have different Class 66's on production lines at the same time, so the order gets done faster. One thing I have come across is the fact that many components are a push fit and are not actually glued in - which is probably why people are find bits dropped of. It is certainly worth opening them on a flat surface to catch anything escaping. On the Intermountain GE GEVO illustrated by YesTor above, I think it simply says "Wow"! Best Wishes, C. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I think that a big difference in the UK and North American models is down to customers expectations. If a model is launched to the North American market and isn’t right it gets utterly condemned, doesn’t sell and ends up being sold off at massive discounts. In the UK we still buy it and then tweak at it and accept somethings that just shouldn’t be accepted. The Hattons Class66 story for me was one of massive disappointment. I bought one, it ran like a rocking horse. Hattons I must say gave excellent customer service for the return but its just sad this model just fell short of being a benchmark model. 6 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 158 productions Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 For me, the flaws and uncertainty are still stopping me from buying anymore, was in the market for 3 more but haven’t decided on them. As well as the little to no response from hattons other than the standard speak to our customer care team has really marked them down in my book. Look at the likes of these new companies such as accurascale who are extremely transparent about delays\ issues. I wish hattons went down this route, but sadly they haven’t. 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2020 Having read through most of the comments, I can only conclude that Bachmann must be laughing their proverbial a***s off. 1 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black 5 Bear Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jools1959 said: Having read through most of the comments, I can only conclude that Bachmann must be laughing their proverbial a***s off. I doubt that is the case as Bachmann have had their hand forced, resulting in the price of their Class 66 offering being reduced to a more realistic pricing point before discount ( N.B I have 3 in my collection). Flaws aside, which I'm confident will be rectified, the Hattons offering is superior in every respect detail/running etc. Hopefully, they'll get a grip on this situation and provide/supply a model worthy of it's original intention. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted August 23, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, bartram108 said: I do a lot of consultancy for a motor manufacturer. They have multiple assembly lines. I made an assumption that the model factories will work in the same way so some models could end up being different in the end product. As it appears some models are OK and some aren't, even of the same loco it stands to reason this could be an explanation. I assume (judging from YouTube videos from Rapido etc.) that there's a team of a dozen or two. or three (assuming low volume production e.g. UK outline) people that assemble a batch, being human beings those folk will have different skill levels and experience so the end result will vary somewhat. Then by the time the team have really got the hang of it the batch is complete, not to be made again for years / ever. Plus they could be running split shifts so the morning shift may be generally better at assembly than the afternoon shift or vice-versa. Overall it must be no fun at all trying to a achieve a consistently high standard of finished product in this environment, coupled with insufficient production volumes to justify trying to design some of the hand assembly out, or invest in more jigs / other assembly aids. On the other hand for the USA outline market then volumes are much higher (I assume) so more money can be spent on the design, and the assembly team may get longer to get the hang of assembly. Edited August 23, 2020 by spamcan61 typo 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 1 minute ago, jools1959 said: Having read through most of the comments, I can only conclude that Bachmann must be laughing their proverbial a***s off. Don't wish to turn this into a pricing debate, BUT....... They have been laughing at us for years at the prices they have been selling Class 66's at..... Just like with Class 37's at £179.99 etc., until the new breed arrive! Just look at the amount of parts on VDA's, POA's,HEA's etc. and their suggested prices. At least if anyone don't want a Hattons version, they can pick up a Bachmann one, at a little better price! Regards, C. 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, bartram108 said: I do a lot of consultancy for a motor manufacturer. They have multiple assembly lines. I made an assumption that the model factories will work in the same way so some models could end up being different in the end product. As it appears some models are OK and some aren't, even of the same loco it stands to reason this could be an explanation. Agreed. All I can say from my own experience with the first batch (from which all of the DRS variants originate), are that I have not encountered any unique issues that are/were specific to any individual 'type', or perceived 'run', of any given model. Whether that indicates that all/any of the components were manufactured or/and assembled at simultaneous/varying times is impossible to determine. Al Edited August 23, 2020 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 2 hours ago, YesTor said: specific to any individual 'type' Other than the lighting problem on the big light models but I presume that wasn't what you were getting at, and it affects all of those. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 On 10/08/2020 at 20:41, Midnight-Freight said: One thing that strikes me is there seems to be a few customers that have returned faulty models and had replacements that have had the same and/or different problems. Surely if a customer has already had one duff model that they've returned the one thing you make sure you do is to check the replacement is a good one. This is it. I had a dodgy one, sent back. After some work, they swapped the chip to another loco, which then had problems. The third one had problems like the first with the motor somewhat "pulsing". Despite their promise of "we'll check the next one that goes out" - I decided to put my money elsewhere instead. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 One thing obvious in the HO / HO model, is the proximity of the shaft to the actual end of the AB cover - no long moulding which pushes over a little stub of protruding axle. This will minimise the 'wobble' if there is any. Very unfortunate, as stated, 160 pages later and no change. Al. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: Just amuses me as to all the comments as to well they will have hundreds to shift of these batches,Its there problem,not ours,model after model sent out no better than the last,it needs addressed as Santas elves are not fixing it,how many duff ones before people say enough,do something about it?? At the moment I expect they are in a bad place and so they need to do what is the lesser of all evils in the best interests of their business. I think there are the following options, and my opinion on each: We will rework all of the locos we have in stock - probably not financially viable, bad for the business We are doing another run, everything will be sorted - screws over the sales of their existing stock, bad for the business They keep quiet about any improvements until they have either sold all of the existing stock, or sales stop - Not good for the customer but out of the 3 options is probably the best for the business. Once 3 has run its course then I think 1 or 2 will happen but why should they spend the money before we (as a group of people) stop spending ours? I aren't having any more until I have more confidence or they announce a livery I really want but I am sure some are still biting. As it stands I have 4 of these, but I cannot be bothered with the messing about I had last time. The only reason I kept the last 2 was because I made my mind up I wanted those two specific locos (neither made by Bachmann and I aren't interested in the Hornby model). Going forwards I expect they will miss out on 2 other sales, Orange FL will go to Bachmann because of colour and other issues. Red DB loco will either be a Bachmann 66 or a Hornby 60, probably the latter. I am not trying to defend their communication levels here, but I just cannot see any reason why they would say something to screw over their current sales and I don't know why others either don't understand that or what I am missing about announcing improvements being good for them other than kudos on here. Edited August 24, 2020 by TomScrut Posted before I had finished 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted August 24, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 24, 2020 Surely the simplest approach to this would be a run of new wheel sets with longer axle ends on them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Sadly the lack of any comments from Hattons addressing the issues, makes me think they’ve closed the bunker door and will just sit and weather the incoming . 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class 158 productions Posted August 25, 2020 Share Posted August 25, 2020 (edited) Well they’ve lost Bachmann, although I saw some new products come in, at near rrp. If the 66 project doesn’t do well, it will be a large hit for them, made even larger by the times we live in. There is now a considerable amount of people who have either had a bad experience with their 66s or are just scared of the stigma of it and have now sworn by Bachmann. If Bachmann continues to do more celebrities and get the colours correct, I will probably go with them. The loss in detail might be annoying, but I’d rather have one run without wobbling or leave a trail of black plastic around the track. Such a shame, what the 66 could’ve been, still a decent model and if you get one that works, it’s great. Edited August 25, 2020 by Class 158 productions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now