Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

['CHARD]

Just now, adb968008 said:

 66789 is a reincarnated class 45.

 

45015 as I understand it!

[The Black Hat]

On 11/07/2021 at 15:33, rob D2 said:

Nope, still not regretting it. If they make it RTR rather than a kit next time, I might get one .

 

Your loss. 

[MGR Hooper!]

On 11/07/2021 at 18:42, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

After all the hu ha those who have not purchased one will regret it once they are gone.

It has its issues but with a little work its a great model. There's only 66743 i might buy as ive got all the modern image ones and a couple of cheap ones for spares.
 

I think it depends on each individual. I love the Class 66s, but living half way across the globe has it's restrictions. It takes anywhere between 10-60 days for me to get parcels from England. With the current pandemic situation, it takes longer sometimes.

 

International postage for me is ridiculously expensive. I pay half the cost to have things sent to me when compared to have things sent back home to England. Take the Hattons Classs 66, Bachmann Class 90, Hornby A2s, all recent models with known QC issues. If I order one. I'll have to wait ages to get it and when it arrives pay upwards of 50% customs on it. Then there's a 50-50 chance that I can get a perfect model or a damaged model. If it's damaged, based on how badly damaged it is, I can either repair it myself, pay someone to repair it or spend a fortune to send it back. Getting a replacement will take ages again and yet again I'd have to pay a hefty customs fee on it.

I'd rather miss out on a Class 66 now (even if it's one I really want) and wait for batch 2 and buy another one that catches my eye.

Hattons have still not publicly acknowledged the QC issues with their Class 66., that's terrible PR. Bachmann acknowledged the issues with the Class 90 and were offering a fix. Hornby have done something similar for their Class 60, LNER A2 and Mk3 DVT.

Furthermore I always ask retailers to thoroughly test my models before despact. Hattons are a hit and miss in this department. Sometimes they can go over and above to do something and yet other times they've falsely advertised second hand products and I've received something that's not acceptable.

I'd rather avoid all that and wait for Hattons to do the right thing.

[rob D2]

6 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

 

Your loss. 

I'll learn to live with it 

[YesTor]

18 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

If it's damaged, based on how badly damaged it is, I can either repair it myself, pay someone to repair it or spend a fortune to send it back. Getting a replacement will take ages again and yet again I'd have to pay a hefty customs fee on it.

 

'Replacement goods' are eligible for customs relief, ie. immune from any customs charges. 

 

Best
Al

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by YesTor

[newbryford]

48 minutes ago, YesTor said:

 

'Replacement goods' are eligible for customs relief, ie. immune from any customs charges. 

 

Best
Al

 

 

19 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Getting a replacement will take ages again and yet again I'd have to pay a hefty customs fee on it.


 

 

IIRC, model railways, new or replacement, are not subject to customs tariffs, but they are liable for VAT (or whatever the importing country equivalent is.)

They should be shipped under the commodity code 9503003000

 

From UK HMRC website.

All sections

Section XX: Miscellaneous manufactured articles

95

 

 

 

Toys, games and sports requisites; parts and accessories thereof

95

03

 

 

Tricycles, scooters, pedal cars and similar wheeled toys; dolls' carriages; dolls; other toys; reduced-size ('scale') models and similar recreational models, working or not; puzzles of all kinds

95

03

00

30

00

Electric trains, including tracks, signals and other accessories therefor; reduced-size (scale) model assembly kits.

 

 

[YesTor]

2 hours ago, newbryford said:

IIRC, model railways, new or replacement, are not subject to customs tariffs, but they are liable for VAT (or whatever the importing country equivalent is.)

 

Sorry, perhaps my use of words was slightly misleading, ie. in that when I refer to 'customs' charges I'm generally referring to import charges as a whole (ie. VAT, processing fees etc), and I'd guess that's what @MGR Hooper! is likely referring to as well (feel free to correct if I am mistaken)? 

 

The real point being, that goods being replaced will be subject to customs relief (which means VAT too), and should be received with no charges, otherwise VAT and other fees would be charged twice on what is effectively one single purchase.

 

Similar rules for returning goods, ie. always ask your customer to label goods as being returned, so that the retailer isn't subject to 'import charges' on their arrival.

 

Best

Al

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by YesTor

[MGR Hooper!]

5 hours ago, YesTor said:

 

'Replacement goods' are eligible for customs relief, i.e. immune from any customs charges. 

 

Best
Al

 

 

4 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

 

IIRC, model railways, new or replacement, are not subject to customs tariffs, but they are liable for VAT (or whatever the importing country equivalent is.)

They should be shipped under the commodity code 9503003000

 

From UK HMRC website.

All sections

Section XX: Miscellaneous manufactured articles

95

 

 

 

Toys, games and sports requisites; parts and accessories thereof

95

03

 

 

Tricycles, scooters, pedal cars and similar wheeled toys; dolls' carriages; dolls; other toys; reduced-size ('scale') models and similar recreational models, working or not; puzzles of all kinds

95

03

00

30

00

Electric trains, including tracks, signals and other accessories therefore; reduced-size (scale) model assembly kits.

 

 

 

Sorry to take this off topic a bit and make it political, but the Government in India doesn't believe in following guidelines. Be it their own or international. 

 

Toys are supposed to have a 23.5% customs duty (when I checked last). The last time I paid 23.5% was 12 years ago. Since 2014 onwards I've always paid anywhere between 50-75% customs on models.

 

The Customs Dept in India is not going to bother about what rules are set in the UK. If I have a defective piece being replaced, I will still have to pay a second customs fee. They look at it as another mysterious box coming in. And they look at it as a way of making money. In India if you have contacts within the Customs Dept, you can get your goods shipped in for free. If not, you pay through your nose. 

 

- I've paid the equivalent of £1 (INR 100) as a customs fee for a birthday card because they felt the need to charge it. 

- I've also paid £3 (INR 300) for a club magazine that was A5 sized. Basically a booklet. 

- I've also paid a whopping 63% customs fee on a small pack of 100 SMD LEDs from Taiwan, a country that's supposed to have a free-trade agreement with India and as such shouldn't have an customs duties. 

[G-BOAF]

Is there any news of a second batch. I was waiting for 'Evening Star' (surely a must for a future batch), or a LT livery one, or one other celeb. Nothing really grabbed me in the first batch except maybe for the Large Logo (now long sold out), and was put off by the reported bogie issues.

 

This said, if it is the end of the line, I could probably stretch to a Royal Scotsman one....

 

I would find it odd if the abandoned making a widely regarded model...

[TravisM]

22 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Is there any news of a second batch. I was waiting for 'Evening Star' (surely a must for a future batch), or a LT livery one, or one other celeb. Nothing really grabbed me in the first batch except maybe for the Large Logo (now long sold out), and was put off by the reported bogie issues.

 

This said, if it is the end of the line, I could probably stretch to a Royal Scotsman one....

 

I would find it odd if the abandoned making a widely regarded model...

I’m surprised that nothing has been said about a possible second run, or even a announcement that Hatton’s won’t be doing anymore which makes the first run “collectible”.

 

Hatton’s have done 2nd and 3rd runs of their little steam loco’s, so I’m hopeful.

[Pete the Elaner]

They were very communicative about their first batch but it was delayed several times, which caused a negative reaction. They found out why other manufacturers are less communicative: because they don't want to make promises they cannot keep. If there is a second batch (& I believe there will be), I expect it to be announced far less in advance that previously.

 

The first batch had several well known issues which need(ed) to be reviewed before a second batch can be commissioned, then there is a significant lead time between order & manufacture.

[Markwj]

I don’t think given the global disruption particularly in China both with manufacturers and shipping we will see a second batch anytime soon but happy to be wrong!

But on the other hand Hattons have lost Bachmann and are also down the Hornby pecking order so producing their own products is probably where most of their profit will be.

So in summary- I have no idea!

thanks

mark

[adb968008]

Any future run all comes down to price..

Batch 1 was 3 years ago at £150.

Its taken 9 months to clear it at £119.

 

Whilst I doubt they were bleeding even at £119, any future run comes with two choices, repeat as is, or fix the flaws.

 

Fixing the flaws costs money, repeating “as is” may result in fewer sales.

Both translate into higher prices, on top of 3 years inflation...£150 is long past, so you have to persuade people to part with more.. Then consider any model is going to have further head to head competition.

Assuming the first run has washed its face, is it worth it, or just let it rest for a while ?

 

I’m sure there will be more, but whilst stock levels show 6 types remaining ?

i’m surprised weve not seen more resprays yet.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by adb968008

[newbryford]

1 hour ago, adb968008 said:

 

 

I’m sure there will be more, but whilst stock levels show 6 types remaining ?

I'm surprised we've not seen more resprays yet.

 

 

Because Hattons launched 30 variants originally - going up to 37 (?) that (IMO) effectively killed the respray market. 

Why repaint when you can get the one you want?

Having said that, it isn't a unique situation with the Hattons 66 - how many out there are simply waiting for a particular model variant to be done, rather than simply renumbering/repainting?

 

Noting that those left over don't really lend themselves to many new liveries that have appeared since the launch of the Hattons 66.

(Although a shed in the more popular shade of G&W orange is missing from my "I would like to have" list - at some stage I will probably have to bite the bullet and repaint)

 

I did end up buying one or two more Hattons 66s than intended when they knocked them out at bargain prices and the plan was to repaint a Hattons EWS version into DB Maritime blue, but since the advent of Illuminated Models lighting kits for Bachmann 66s, I'm using a spare Bachy 66 instead as it will now have the later non-marker version of the Wipac units. The Hattons EWS 66 may go on ebay.....

 

Somewhere up thread, there was a comment about the Bachmann 66 suddenly becoming a "bad model", but IMO, the major shortcoming of it was the inadequate lighting. Now I've sorted some of my celebrity fleet with IM kits - 66711/718/720 (my hand-painted version) /721/779 for example - I won't be replacing them, even if Hattons release those numbers - which I doubt they will do so anyway in the near future.

I will dig out my Bachmann Colas 66 repaint for a re-lighting job as this will be an ideal loco for the upcoming club layout.

 

I would like to do Captain Tom 66731, and I think I have four choices.

1. Buy the Bachmann version - daft prices on ebay and I'd still have to modify the lighting.

2. Buy the Hornby version - daft price on ebay and not on my radar at all.

3. Buy a Hattons 66727/731 and repaint.

4. Repaint (and re-light) my existing Bachmann 66731 "Interhub"

 

Whilst I really like the Hattons 66, #4 is the most likely option as it'll cost me relatively few £ in lighting kit, paint and decals when compared to the others.

 

Edited July 17, 2021 by newbryford

[TravisM]

51 minutes ago, newbryford said:

Somewhere up thread, there was a comment about the Bachmann 66 suddenly becoming a "bad model", but IMO, the major shortcoming of it was the inadequate lighting. Now I've sorted some of my celebrity fleet with IM kits - 66711/718/720 (my hand-painted version) /721/779 for example - I won't be replacing them, even if Hattons release those numbers - which I doubt they will do so anyway in the near future.

I will dig out my Bachmann Colas 66 repaint for a re-lighting job as this will be an ideal loco for the upcoming club layout.

 

I would like to do Captain Tom 66731, and I think I have four choices.

1. Buy the Bachmann version - daft prices on ebay and I'd still have to modify the lighting.

2. Buy the Hornby version - daft price on ebay and not on my radar at all.

3. Buy a Hattons 66727/731 and repaint.

4. Repaint (and re-light) my existing Bachmann 66731 "Interhub"

 

Whilst I really like the Hattons 66, #4 is the most likely option as it'll cost me relatively few £ in lighting kit, paint and decals when compared to the others.

I’m pretty sure that a number of people, including myself dumped their Bachmann Class 66’s in favour of getting the “supa doopa” Hatton’s Class 66, only to regret doing so because of delays (outside Hatton’s control) and quality issues.  To be honest, I have to agree with @newbryford regarding the Bachmann Class 66 over the Hatton’s version, and as I only want two for each end of my RHTT train and possibly a third if I want a different engine for my Boston steel train, I might as well get Bachmann’s offering.

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, newbryford said:

how many out there are simply waiting for a particular model variant to be done, rather than simply renumbering/repainting?

 

I am like this in terms of celeb liveries. I don't have the skill (nor the time to learn at the moment) to do it myself, and paying somebody to do it turns a £150 model into a £250 model pretty much and therefore makes it more than I am willing to pay. That is not a dig at how much it costs as I appreciate there's a lot of work to do for that.

 

I am happy enough to wait anyway. Most of the ones I want/wanted I have from Bachmann anyway.

 

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

major shortcoming of it was the inadequate lighting

 

I completely agree. I do have illuminated models kits for mine I will do sometime, but I wonder why Bachmann haven't done it when somebody can justify doing a PCB and selling it for £10.

 

7 hours ago, newbryford said:

Buy the Bachmann version - daft prices on ebay and I'd still have to modify the lighting.

 

Without wanting to sound like I am stating the obvious are they sold out at the CC now (it says in stock on the website)? I saw them on eBay at silly prices pretty much from launch when still available from the CC.

 

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I’m pretty sure that a number of people, including myself dumped their Bachmann Class 66’s in favour of getting the “supa doopa” Hatton’s Class 66, only to regret doing so because of delays (outside Hatton’s control) and quality issues.  To be honest, I have to agree with @newbryford regarding the Bachmann Class 66 over the Hatton’s version, and as I only want two for each end of my RHTT train and possibly a third if I want a different engine for my Boston steel train, I might as well get Bachmann’s offering.

 

Oddly enough I got rid of 3 66s that I wasn't that bothered about and kept the ones important to me. Only regret I have is I never replaced my plain green FL one, because I did like that and intended on getting a Hattons one. Now I have 9 66s of one sort or another I aren't exactly treating buying more as a priority!

 

The Hattons model is definitely better IMO if they are right (and do a lot more work on my layout than the Bachmann ones which tend to be celeb liveries sat in a cabinet).

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, newbryford said:

 

 

 

I would like to do Captain Tom 66731, and I think I have four choices.

1. Buy the Bachmann version - daft prices on ebay and I'd still have to modify the lighting.

2. Buy the Hornby version - daft price on ebay and not on my radar at all.

3. Buy a Hattons 66727/731 and repaint.

4. Repaint (and re-light) my existing Bachmann 66731 "Interhub"

 

Whilst I really like the Hattons 66, #4 is the most likely option as it'll cost me relatively few £ in lighting kit, paint and decals when compared to the others.

 

I agree with all you said there, and generically file under “why bother” making more Hattons 66’s.

But the price issue stands out, 66731 Captain Tom is available new from Bachmann Collectors Club at £199.

If Hattons made 66731, given theres thousands already made, their would be a charitable element, 3 years inflation onto of £150, and costs to update the tooling, what price would the Hattons one be ?

 

My thoughts on more Hattons 66’s would be to not just fix the issues, but tool up more cab changes and bring on 66792-96, that could open the door to some popular repeats and some older specials, but if most people are like me and a bit fat on cheap 66’s, I bought only 3 at £150, then at a higher price i’m not exactly going to rush on more… Would smart money be better spent on a new tooling of something else ?

Edited July 17, 2021 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

On 17/07/2021 at 09:07, adb968008 said:

Hattons made 66731, given theres thousands already made, their would be a charitable element, 3 years inflation onto of £150, and costs to update the tooling, what price would the Hattons one be ?

 

And I expect that another run might involve more cost in terms of ensuring quality, which may mean manufacturing time increase too (i.e. some of the mistakes could have been down to rushing against times underestimated at the start)

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

So on the price thing,if they re run a better made model what would you want to pay,its a sell out since they dropped the price but i guess they still make a healthy amount out of this.

The sound versions were gone before they got here,i have bought more and will retrofit after im happy with there running reliability.

Will be interesting to see how a few years goes by and if they are a one off run how prices go.

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

So on the price thing,if they re run a better made model what would you want to pay,its a sell out since they dropped the price but i guess they still make a healthy amount out of this.

 

£150, I only bought 3, and b-listed the rest for a rainy day, at £119 (and under) it rained 66’s in my house.

I doubt global warming will bring that event twice, but if it did I’d only be buying new liveries, Ive certainly more than enough DB/EWS /GBRF/Colas/DRS etc to keep me going…

Edited July 18, 2021 by adb968008

[mdvle]

On 17/07/2021 at 04:07, adb968008 said:

Would smart money be better spent on a new tooling of something else ?

 

Tooling something else would seem to be the best choice, though perhaps with an announcement closer to release - yes, it means they can't get feedback, but it also potentially means less chance for someone else to react to it.

 

But I would think part of the equation on deciding on another run of 66's will be how necessary it is to have a 66 to sell to customers - with Bachmann and Hornby both removed themselves as suppliers, Hattons potentially don't want to lose customers who want to buy a 66 of some sort.  Though again, I would guess any new run will just suddenly appear if it happens.

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

On 17/07/2021 at 08:14, TomScrut said:

 

Oddly enough I got rid of 3 66s that I wasn't that bothered about and kept the ones important to me. Only regret I have is I never replaced my plain green FL one, because I did like that and intended on getting a Hattons one. Now I have 9 66s of one sort or another I aren't exactly treating buying more as a priority!

 

The Hattons model is definitely better IMO if they are right (and do a lot more work on my layout than the Bachmann ones which tend to be celeb liveries sat in a cabinet).

Theres a £94 green FL just gone on in pre owned if its of use

[ERIC ALLTORQUE]

 

[TravisM]

I’ve noticed on that certain online auction site, several of Hatton’s Class 66’s are listed and noticed the high prices people are prepared to pay.  I wonder if Hatton’s selling them off cheap was such a good idea?