Free At Last Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Graham108 said: "I still believe that the 66 and the 59 are being made in the same factory" What leads you to believe this? A belief is just that, a belief. It has no bearing on the truth. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) Its certainly designed differently. if you look at the 59 EPs.. For starters it has opening cab doors unlike the 66. Additionally the bufferbeam and heads are moulded onto the body, with a clip on skirt ( leading to comments of unsightly-ness of a non-existsnt seamline across the front), where as the Hattons 66 has a fully removable front beam with separate buffers, there are no sign of front steps (missing) on the class 59, unlike the 66. The cab step/handrail looks to be chassis mounted on the 59 (and the lower handrails on the 59 are metal) making the body easily removable. Additionally the etch grills of the 66 vs moulded on the 59’s sides. The 59 was designed for smoke from the outset. That said there are a few more obscure coincidences.. the jumper socket being a separate tooled fitting in an equally square designed plug in hole, and the hornbox with grill, as is the clip fit body approach. My impression handling both the EPs at Warley in 2018 was the 66 felt more detail refined, the 59 more traditional. That said, some of the 66’s spares can be sourced / modified from Dapol class 121 parts, the gear box tower lid plastic moulding is definitely the same, just with 2 extra wings, and the shaft of the 121 is the same design, but in metal. The motor however is generic Chinese, and c£3 will find you an easy replacement on ebay, for all sorts of different industry applications. Iirc Hattons response to the 59 question was to confirm it wasnt made by Dapol ( and I think they addressed the same with regard to Heljan too), but that wasn't the same thing as saying they arent made on the same Chinese factory floor… lets face it only so many factories make OO gauge, so theres going to be many business names here using the same handful of factory names there. Edited September 10, 2021 by adb968008 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Tony Walker said: I think the next run of these will depend on how the Dapol 59 is received and how the rotating axle boxes work. If the modifications work well, then we could see the same modification done to the 66. I still believe that the 66 and the 59 are being made in the same factory, hence my comment. So Hattons are going to sit around indefinitely for the Dapol 59 to emerge before even beginning work on correcting their 66? And then blatantly 'copy' whatever method Dapol have utilised? What self-assured manufacturer would do that? Seems highly unlikely. More probable they'd want to get on with the job, resolve any issues and display confidence in one's own product and perhaps even have a second batch on the production line, I might have guessed...? Al Edited September 10, 2021 by YesTor 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, adb968008 said: My impression handling both the EPs at Warley in 2018 was the 66 felt more detail refined, the 59 more traditional. Ditto. Edited September 10, 2021 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirwilliamfrs Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) For the record, two very different variations of G&W livery on this photo of two of the class. Incidentally, Martin Loader's is one of the finest photo websites around. http://www.hondawanderer.com/66623_66413_Grove_2021.htm Edited September 10, 2021 by sirwilliamfrs correction 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 10, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 10, 2021 (edited) A quick look tonight suggests 12 Pink 66’s left.. i’m not sure that’ll ever get re-run, and aside of being pink, I dont think there is much wrong with it. next after that is 66727, with 23.. but after that I guess were in for the long haul with 69 of 66731 left. as for 66623 seems to be showing 134 !.. maybe they should comission a respray limited edition to absorb them all. Edited September 10, 2021 by adb968008 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 12 hours ago, adb968008 said: A quick look tonight suggests 12 Pink 66’s left.. i’m not sure that’ll ever get re-run, and aside of being pink, I dont think there is much wrong with it. Yeah, not sure why people don't like it TBH, I think it looks good! Although I do gravitate towards bright colours. It will be interesting to know what they do plan on doing on a 2nd run, there's not much not already covered other than celebs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) 12 hours ago, TomScrut said: Yeah, not sure why people don't like it TBH, I think it looks good! Although I do gravitate towards bright colours. It will be interesting to know what they do plan on doing on a 2nd run, there's not much not already covered other than celebs. I finally picked up the pink one myself. I wasn't convinced by the shade of pink when I saw the pre-production model on display at Warley - as it immediately struck me as being far too gaudy (which I did express to @Hattons Dave ) - and I was even less convinced when I received the model 'in the flesh'. Okay, you can search Flickr for reference and to be fair be forgiven in that there are numerous photos that could argue either to be closer, but from seeing the livery 1-on-1 my mind's eye tells me that the container is much closer in terms of accuracy. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but to me the 66 simply doesn't look right: Other liveries - Yes, it will indeed be interesting to see what new versions are selected. Plenty of celebrity liveries for sure, and to be fair, plenty of the more run-of-the-mill variants, such as: Standard EWS - with correct logos this time; and please, if you opt for any oddities such as odd-fitted/coloured doors etc then at least get those right, otherwise what's the point. The devil is in the detail.. Freightliner - original livery with later cabside logos and updated headlight clusters (as currently running on the network). Freightliner - current livery, correct shade of orange. DB - large DB logo only livery GBRf - numerous Euro 66 versions (opportunity for minor tooling variants as well there), plus we've only had one version of the 5-door variant. I'm sure many of us would like more of those... GBRf - current livery (minus Europort branding etc) - an army of those to gnaw at. GBRf - 'Evening Star' - okay, a celebrity, but worthy of a mention by itself. Yes, we know that Bachmann do a version, but they failed to update their model to the last build variant and for one it has the wrong sandboxes fitted - and is a dated model overall. DRS - original livery on 5-door variant w/ bug eye headlights. Fastline - not current, but an interesting one nonetheless. Essentially, there are lots of variations over the standard liveries with different headlights over different builds and also standard and low-emission bodied. The other factor to consider is that renumbering the ribbed bodysides (EWS, GBRf etc) is rather more tricky than renumbering a standard loco, so I'd guess that many might be reluctant to do so and instead be open to buy readily numbered versions - again, more opportunity for more releases. We could rant all day... Al Edited September 11, 2021 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted September 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 11, 2021 29 minutes ago, YesTor said: Essentially, there are lots of variations over the standard liveries with different headlights over different builds and also standard and low-emission bodied. We could rant want all day... Al There - fixed it for you! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomScrut Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, YesTor said: but from seeing the livery 1-on-1 my mind's eye tells me that the container is much closer in terms of accuracy. I think you're right there. If that's a C rail container then I have made the same observation at home but good enough for me I think, it's not as bad as the orange one. 30 minutes ago, YesTor said: with correct logos this time Yes, that would help! 30 minutes ago, YesTor said: Freightliner - current livery, correct shade of orange And that! 30 minutes ago, YesTor said: current livery (minus Europort branding etc) Good point, not sure there are any of those done yet in post europorte livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Walker Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 On 10/09/2021 at 11:11, Graham108 said: "I still believe that the 66 and the 59 are being made in the same factory" What leads you to believe this? When you look at the packaging and other things compared with the Dapol 68, there's too much the same. Whether Hattons had dispelled it or not, someone in China has made them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 8 hours ago, TomScrut said: I think you're right there. If that's a C rail container then I have made the same observation at home but good enough for me I think, it's not as bad as the orange one. Yeah, it is the C-Rail container. The other obvious potential livery I missed as well would be DB with large DB branding only. Al 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted September 11, 2021 Share Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tony Walker said: When you look at the packaging and other things compared with the Dapol 68, there's too much the same. Whether Hattons had dispelled it or not, someone in China has made them. I don’t think that was ever in doubt. Edited September 11, 2021 by rob D2 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 11, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 11, 2021 (edited) 21 hours ago, Tony Walker said: When you look at the packaging and other things compared with the Dapol 68, there's too much the same. Whether Hattons had dispelled it or not, someone in China has made them. what is the same ? Under the hood there is not much similarity, other than an industry standard on/off circuitboard switch. the class 66 under the hood actually has more in common with the Hornby class 50 than a 68, note the use of JSTs on the 66 vs solders on the 68, its a completely different board design, different wiring, board type, layout, labelling and parts. The Dapol 68 and 52 also use a completely different shaft/ worm/ gearbox, you can just see a 52 at the top.. it uses fixed soldered wiring, not contacts too. It does however have some lineage to a Dapol 121…see here.. that box dimension is identical, as is the gearing, worm & spindle, only the shaft length & material are different… you could (and I have) fixed some aspects of a Hatton's 66 with class 121 spares… I do recommend having a few 121 metal shafts spare, as the plastic shaft on the 66 is a definite weak point for torque.. just cut it in the middle, trim and brace / glue together with a bit of 2mm brass tubing. (ive spent dozens of hours under the hood of Hattons 66’s having bought more wrecks than I will ever need, but at the reject/returns prices offered they were too hard to resist, and I love having a low risk “have a go” to fix… so far everyone ive touch has come good. Ive even dismantled the can motors right down to the brushes inside the 66.. they are very similar (if not the same) as a well known US HO manufacturer, but Heljan 26/27/33 motors can be substituted, just swap the flywheels, cut off the jst off and solder the wires. Made in China .. absolutely, made in the same factory.. quite possibly ( and I could probably take a very good punt on which factory it was), designed by the same team…I dont think so. I await the internals of the 59…but the externals aren't imho of the quite same design as the 66, each having different merits and detractors. Edited September 12, 2021 by adb968008 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted September 13, 2021 Share Posted September 13, 2021 I guess it also depends on what's meant by "made in the same factory" - define "made". Where does the factory get their screws and boards from? Different suppliers? Are they simply the "assemblers" or do they have their own stock of screws, boards and switches? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 13, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 13, 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Sir TophamHatt said: I guess it also depends on what's meant by "made in the same factory" - define "made". Assembled. I have a Dell laptop with screws that are used on a loco circuit board. For that matter I have a loco running using a CD Rom motor. Whenever I chuck a laptop, I strip it bare if useful bits… But I dont have that many laptops these days. Edited September 13, 2021 by adb968008 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 I have been given a class 66 that someone else has messed up and doesn't want. I have tried to get the bufferbeams I need from Hattons and they refuse to sell them to me because I personally didnt buy it from them. Is there any other avenue I can explore or is it basically just a parts loco now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Andy7 Posted September 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2021 You can definitely get some second hand. In the box you get an extra set if bufferbeams complete with buffers (every loco comes like this). I would offer some myself but use the buffers on various other projects so have no spare. Hopefully someone may be able to help. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted September 15, 2021 Share Posted September 15, 2021 Thanks. Funnily enough I have been offered some stripey buffers but not the bufferbeams !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted September 15, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2021 I’ve heard a whisper on the model shop grapevine that Hatton’s are awaiting a production slot before making another announcement on another batch of Class 66’s, but with the Chinese playing catch-up, it could be a long wait. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ERIC ALLTORQUE Posted September 15, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2021 4 hours ago, PM47079 said: I have been given a class 66 that someone else has messed up and doesn't want. I have tried to get the bufferbeams I need from Hattons and they refuse to sell them to me because I personally didnt buy it from them. Is there any other avenue I can explore or is it basically just a parts loco now? Are you in Australia,it upside down,im sure if you bide your time some will turn up on e bay or someone who has bought one of these direct souce some for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted September 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2021 16 hours ago, PM47079 said: I have been given a class 66 that someone else has messed up and doesn't want. I have tried to get the bufferbeams I need from Hattons and they refuse to sell them to me because I personally didnt buy it from them. Is there any other avenue I can explore or is it basically just a parts loco now? Why not remove then, put them in a bowl car brake fluid for a day to remove the old paint, and spray a precision BR Warning panel yellow on them ? you can source black stripes from Railtec https://www.railtec-models.com/showitem.php?id=1235 unfortunately the ECR 66’s are quite unique, as they come with the Euro snowplough and striped air dam… a close version to tweak/fit might be a Lima class 60 snowplough if you can find one, if no one else makes one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack374 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 17 hours ago, PM47079 said: I have been given a class 66 that someone else has messed up and doesn't want. I have tried to get the bufferbeams I need from Hattons and they refuse to sell them to me because I personally didnt buy it from them. Is there any other avenue I can explore or is it basically just a parts loco now? As adb968008 has just said, that looks salvageable if you strip it back. Regarding the ploughs, the only source I know of is PH Designs' version as an etched brass kit… http://www.phd-design-etchings.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_28_63&product_id=95 Usual disclaimer - I’ve no affiliation - just remember seeing it in Model Rail (?) when it came out, way before Hattons had considered producing sheds! Jack. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PM47079 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 Thanks guys as always there is a good couple of suggestions. Lets try dipping the old buffer beam units first. I actually rather like the etched brass kit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 14 hours ago, jools1959 said: I’ve heard a whisper on the model shop grapevine that Hatton’s are awaiting a production slot before making another announcement on another batch of Class 66’s, but with the Chinese playing catch-up, it could be a long wait. If true (which it may well be), I guess the lead time is quite long. I doubt anything will be announced early after the multiple delays last time. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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