rob D2 Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 It’s called the “ internet “, people criticise stuff . Who knew ? The reason these are getting a bit of a kicking is clearly the poor design and QC when the vast majority were really excited by the idea of a cutting edge model. I temper that with the notion that like railways / airlines/ supermarkets etc people only write something when they have an issue, the vast majority obviously haven’t. Good luck to them. I am very grateful to RMWeb as I was thinking about getting an EWS one. I’m not now, even with furlough, I can’t be arsed in 2020 messing around with wobbly wheels and axle boxes. I can live without rotating axle boxes - there I’ve said it ! I will be cast out... Got my two Bachmann ones out , weathered them - they’ll do . 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 Well... Loco number 3 is going back. Tried to drill out the holes to make them bigger, which seemed to work. But I've now wasted 2 hours today, plus more at other times and I just don't think it's worth any more of my time. Glued in the axle boxes, which seemed okay, the wobble was still present but somewhat reduced. The motor seemed to "pulse" a little on speed step 7 (out of 28), which was the problem with the first loco, but I'd have looked at that later. Came to test and some axle boxes were on wonkey. Moved them before the glue cured and it seemed okay on the rolling road. Gave it a whirl round the layout. Derailed in three places... I think it's because of the wobble. The axle box pushes against the bogie enough to make it jump the track. After it shed one axle box, much better running. Another whizz round and it'd shed another axle cover. I don't want to have to check the loco after each session. On reflection, my Class 68 hasn't had any problems, no derailments, no problems. It's a great loco and perhaps in 5 years time, I'll pick one up but I'd rather put the money towards something else I think. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir TophamHatt Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 I've also had a thought about the axles and why the little stub of a rod to push the axle box cover on to isn't much longer? Because the ends of the axle box are only just on the metal rod, it's easy for them to come off. And if the axle box end isn't completely flat, it won't fit on very well and will encourage it to be wonkey. If the rod was two or three times as long, it would be straight from the wheel and more secure for the axle box to slip over it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 5 hours ago, adb968008 said: Fair enough, it just feels theres a desire to rip these to pieces. A cap falling off is unfortunate, but many more models have had far worse in history, but it seems to be magnified to a huge issue. Ive not had the issue myself, but creative solutions, rather than hoping the manufacturer does it is really the only fix at this point, for those who have this issue at all.. I'm certainly not ripping anything to pieces - be it your comments or indeed the Hattons 66 itself - if anything I've perhaps been one of the more outspoken contributors with regard to finding a solution on the axle-box issue (see much earlier posts within this topic). I too have invested a fair bit of dosh in these models and like yourself am experiencing very few issues in terms of QC, and by-and-large am incredibly happy, however yes, it would indeed be nice to see an improved axle-box design. The problem on forums is that the written word rarely conveys any nuances behind the message and very often we can read what are usually quite innocent comments as perhaps being something caustic. I cannot speak for others of course, however there's certainly nothing vitriolic coming from my direction. I do actually like the sound of the screwed-thread axle-box cover - whether it's screw-fit, push-in, clip-on or whatever, it's great that the ideas are in the public domain. So let's all keep on sharing those ideas? The suggestion from @TomScrut is interesting also - as in I can see what you mean [TomScrut] with regard to creating what would be almost like a 'floating' cradle that the axle sits inside and engages with the bogie-mounted outer axle-box covers when in motion. If this could be made to work in practice this would probably be a good option, as then the axle-boxes would remain as part of the bogie frame, eliminating the need for covers that protrude unrealistically on curves. Of course, whether any of the options above would be practical, desirable or cost effective to implement would be down to the manufacturer, but I'd imagine that these ideas might well have been and continue to be appreciated. Best Al 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted June 19, 2020 Share Posted June 19, 2020 14 hours ago, rob D2 said: It’s called the “ internet “, people criticise stuff . Who knew ? The reason these are getting a bit of a kicking is clearly the poor design and QC when the vast majority were really excited by the idea of a cutting edge model. I temper that with the notion that like railways / airlines/ supermarkets etc people only write something when they have an issue, the vast majority obviously haven’t. Good luck to them. I am very grateful to RMWeb as I was thinking about getting an EWS one. I’m not now, even with furlough, I can’t be arsed in 2020 messing around with wobbly wheels and axle boxes. I can live without rotating axle boxes - there I’ve said it ! I will be cast out... Got my two Bachmann ones out , weathered them - they’ll do . I shall be cast out too. I have three Bachmann 66s all with sound. I was interested in the Hatton’s one but not with all the problems reported (thank you, RMweb). It’s a bit of a shame. I keep reminding myself that Hatton’s is responsible for the lovely Wainwright P and the equally lovely Andrew Barclay, so perhaps all will be well with the next project. 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted June 20, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 16/06/2020 at 23:30, adb968008 said: Maybe there’s an oppourtunity for Markits to step in here ? a replacement axle, with screw thread and screw on covers ? And they can do the hubs for the GT3 while they are at it. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay*bobble Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Looked at several 66s that a friend got from Hattons. Not my scale nice looking model but where is any quality control. Total night mare wooby don't sit flat even on a work bench .and on track.even worse .save your cash folks and buy a loco that's tryed and tested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay*bobble Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 All so worthy of note it's strange how the Hattons 66 seems close to how Bachmann wos going to do its 66 .wonder way thay opted for a better and reliable mechanisam .not alot cosmetically between the to i personaly would buy a loco that can run well with no real problems .the 1s I've seen are extramly bad runners .you would expect better i wonder if thay where made by Heljan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 31 minutes ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said: I is fairly common knowledge that they are made in the Heljan factory really? not common knowledge to me, where’s that info from? 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 All I gathered is the packaging used by Dapol, Heljan Hattons and now KR Models is the same. Where's the evidence Heljan and Hattons or more use the same factory? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay*bobble Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 You only have to look at it I screams Heljan and to be fair its so much like what Bachmann wos to produce. Makes one wonder if the cad and drawings where both the same. The problem wos expected thats way Bachmann did the bogies the way thay did.says it all realy you gota run before you walk .and if a jobs worth doing do it right .and if you wonder way Heljan made it for Hattons just look at it great looks poor everything else .I only came across my friends locos and totally. Shocked not one of them run as good as even the Hornby job.look forward to the Dapol 1 in my scale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 If it were Heljan then wouldn't Hattons have to state that they comissioned Heljan to make it? When Heljan had issues with their 009 locos they stated they were charging the factory that would make the second batch, that says to me that Heljan don't own their own factory and use 1 or 2 independant factories. More likely the case is that both companies use the same factory and that's why they share traits/features. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 Good contender for the “it never happened of the year award” some of the speculation above! (Happy to end proved wrong though) 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pre Grouping fan Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Was that aimed at me? If it was, that's just my opinion on this situation. (Again happy to be proved wrong) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) Quote added, see edit below Edited June 21, 2020 by big jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 20 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said: Was that aimed at me? If it was, that's just my opinion on this situation. (Again happy to be proved wrong) not at all, aimed at the posts above yours pure speculation and rumour presented as evidence 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2020 (edited) There are a number of factories in China that make railway models. Some factories make for multiple brands. One brand Some brands may be using more than one factory. Edited June 21, 2020 by newbryford Clarification 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 This thread is beginning to smell more fishy than Billingsgate... Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted June 21, 2020 Share Posted June 21, 2020 Bloke down the pub told me Heljan make these....come on...we can do better. Evidence please ? No point banging about what tranche 2 will bring ....if you all keep buying them at £150 and modifying them, there’s no motivation to fix anything is there for Hattons ? 2 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 21, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, rob D2 said: Bloke down the pub told me Heljan make these....come on...we can do better. Evidence please ? No point banging about what tranche 2 will bring ....if you all keep buying them at £150 and modifying them, there’s no motivation to fix anything is there for Heljan ? There, fixed that for you! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ruggedpeak Posted June 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2020 Well all I can say is I have a number Bachmann 66's and one Hattons 66789. On my improvised garden railway (see link in signature) the track is not 100% level in all places but Bachmann 66's cannot get around the loop without derailing in some way, mostly at the far end where changes in level and curves coincide. The Hattons 66 cruises round all day at any speed without difficulty but a Bachmann 66 can't do one circuit without some derailing. Seems they balance on the middle axle of each bogie and can't cope with any slight change in level. Work fine on my perfectly flat micro layout track. This issue seem unique to Bachmann 66's as their 37's as well as Hornby diesels of every flavour (Bo-Bo and Co-Co) manage fine. My only problem with the Hattons 66 is one axle box falling off, which is in the bits box to be stuck back on at some point. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, ruggedpeak said: Well all I can say is I have a number Bachmann 66's and one Hattons 66789. On my improvised garden railway (see link in signature) the track is not 100% level in all places but Bachmann 66's cannot get around the loop without derailing in some way, mostly at the far end where changes in level and curves coincide. The Hattons 66 cruises round all day at any speed without difficulty but a Bachmann 66 can't do one circuit without some derailing. Seems they balance on the middle axle of each bogie and can't cope with any slight change in level. Work fine on my perfectly flat micro layout track. This issue seem unique to Bachmann 66's as their 37's as well as Hornby diesels of every flavour (Bo-Bo and Co-Co) manage fine. My only problem with the Hattons 66 is one axle box falling off, which is in the bits box to be stuck back on at some point. That’s because hattons 66 is designed with unique off road suspension where each wheel operates at a different level , for rallying.. the Bachmann ones - try loosening the bogie attachment screws . I’ve had issues with both 37/66 where it was too tight and thus derailed trying to get round corners that it couldn’t accommodate with the bogie throw 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) I would have thought if it was a Heljan model the tell tale sign would be a Buhler motor....AFAIK only Heljan use these? Edited June 22, 2020 by pheaton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold pheaton Posted June 22, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, ruggedpeak said: Well all I can say is I have a number Bachmann 66's and one Hattons 66789. On my improvised garden railway (see link in signature) the track is not 100% level in all places but Bachmann 66's cannot get around the loop without derailing in some way, mostly at the far end where changes in level and curves coincide. The Hattons 66 cruises round all day at any speed without difficulty but a Bachmann 66 can't do one circuit without some derailing. Seems they balance on the middle axle of each bogie and can't cope with any slight change in level. Work fine on my perfectly flat micro layout track. This issue seem unique to Bachmann 66's as their 37's as well as Hornby diesels of every flavour (Bo-Bo and Co-Co) manage fine. My only problem with the Hattons 66 is one axle box falling off, which is in the bits box to be stuck back on at some point. Its because (I believe) Bachmann mount the bogie to the chassis directly above the centre wheel set, so you create a natural pivot point, all over manufacturers as far as I can see use an offset mounting point, (normally further back), I seem to recall in the early days of the 66 (which were particularly prone to this problem the remedy was the file some material out of the centre wheel-set mounts in the bogie (but might be wrong on that). To resolve the issue fully the mount point needs to be further back or the centre wheel needs a small degree of movement....but the manufacturers answer will be...don't drive it over hills shorter than the wheelbase of the bogie Interestingly....VItrains 37s and 47s seem to be immune to this due to the A1A configuration, and the centre wheel set is able to float in the bogie. Edited June 22, 2020 by pheaton 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 22, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2020 47 minutes ago, pheaton said: I seem to recall in the early days of the 66 (which were particularly prone to this problem the remedy was the file some material out of the centre wheel-set mounts in the bogie (but might be wrong on that). Or relay the track.... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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