Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[NIRCLASS80]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Why would they fix them ? 

Because as a business if you have invested in tooling running into a massive financial cost and can be fixed at a small financial cost then it makes sense. 
Plus Hattons 66’s with the issues sorted is years ahead of the others. 

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, NIRCLASS80 said:

Because as a business if you have invested in tooling running into a massive financial cost and can be fixed at a small financial cost then it makes sense. 
Plus Hattons 66’s with the issues sorted is years ahead of the others. 

Can it be fixed at small financial cost ? Redesign and engineer the bogies, mounts, axles ? Where’s the motivation when you can sell them as they are , faults and all ?

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Thing is , first thing they need to do is acknowledge there were problems.

 

Yes that is the difficulty in some respects, but I have yet to hear of anybody being turned down a return. So they are acknowledging the issues on a one by one basis. So I don't think that announcing an improved version would even open them up liability wise as they have probably been through all that already.

 

They could also announce a new run, with changes, but not announce the changes. Word would soon get around when they arrived. I honestly don't think this situation is unrecoverable for them IF any future runs were spot on.

[TomScrut]

22 minutes ago, rob D2 said:

Can it be fixed at small financial cost ? Redesign and engineer the bogies, mounts, axles ? Where’s the motivation when you can sell them as they are , faults and all ?

 

Because they were selling them for £119 not £150. £20 a loco would probably sort these problems out and an extra £10 margin.

 

I'd be very interested to know (but doubt I ever will) the sales figures before and after the price reduction. I bet the difference is massive.

[Sir TophamHatt]

2 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Why would they fix them ? They dumped the price and got rid of most of them, they’ve seen various people re-engineering them to get them working.....

they completely disengaged with this thread, and went underground .

Because some do have problems.

They know it.  We know it.  Everyone knows it.  Continuing to engage on a forum thread wasn't really going to be a long term solution.

I suspect they'll fix them but won't announce it and just release new liveries / numbers.  I don't expect all problems to be fixed (like the EWS font) but some.

But I also bet there's plenty of people who would buy a lot more if these problems were resolved.

[gary_lner]

Good afternoon guys. A question for those who know alot about the class 66s. I'm looking at getting a suitable version of the hattons 66 that would be suitable for a respray into 66749 when it was in its grey livery with Gbrf logo and number following it's conversion from being used on Dutch railways. 

Would 66731 be a good candidate as it has the same headlight style. But it's a low emission with smaller feul tank according to the hattons matrix. 

Any help or info would be great.

 

Regards Gary 

[rob D2]

57 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Because they were selling them for £119 not £150. £20 a loco would probably sort these problems out and an extra £10 margin.

 

I'd be very interested to know (but doubt I ever will) the sales figures before and after the price reduction. I bet the difference is massive.

But you are just guessing at the cost , nothing more, and £20 is actually quite a lot of the margin on a loco ( and I haven’t seen the Hattons margins, nor will i ever but I have seen the margins on Bachmann products ).

 

I’d sell the whole lot through. Keep quiet for two years. Make some more with no changes .

[The Black Hat]

15 hours ago, metman said:

Mine arrived in a small packed from Hattons and without requesting them.

On another matter, I have received 6 different 66's and not had any issues. Should I do the lottery next week?

Yes. But if you win I want my cut for saying you should and giving you moral support to do it. 

I've always thought your posts here are well put together, concise and informative.  

[Damo666]

There is another scenario though.

 

Hinted above (in various guises) is the presumed cost of adjusting the tooling (some have suggested that this might be minimal, I wouldn't know if this is true or not) and than producing some new liveries/batches. Answer to the question we don't know is how many to produce to: (a) cover the tooling adjustment costs and (b) then make a profit.

 

The other scenario is if the sale of the last Hatton's 66 is conditional on them being back in Bachmann's good books.

 

Then the equation is Profit from a new batch of 66s -v- Profit from selling Bachmann stock again.

 

Nobody but Hattons know the answers, but I thought it'd just throw this on the table out of interest.

[Pete the Elaner]

4 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Why would they fix them ? They dumped the price and got rid of most of them, they’ve seen various people re-engineering them to get them working.....

they completely disengaged with this thread, and went underground .

By 'fix them' I guess you mean refine the production process?

Returns, repairs & customer service all cost money. Hattons will have a good idea of how much the design & issues cost to put right. They will also have a better idea of what to do than any of us on here.

 

'Dumping the price' as you term it is an ordinary procedure to clear out old stock in order to make space for new items which may sell more quickly. £120 in their bank account is more useful than a model sitting on the shelf regardless of its initial value.

 

When trying to re-engineer or repair something, the last thing you want is for frequent demands for a progress update. You want to be left alone to do the job. Until a new batch of 66s (with design revisions) is on the way, there is nothing meaningful for Hattons to contribute. To do so would be like walking through a firing range with a target on your back.

[BigDee]

15 hours ago, metman said:

On another matter, I have received 6 different 66's and not had any issues. Should I do the lottery next week?

Yes.

My hit rate is 50/50 due circuit board issues, logic functions not working with cab and night lights.

Everything else is fixable.

I think they will let the dust settle before doing anymore, if they do!

 

[raetiamann]

Maybe some of these are returns that Hattons have tinkered with to resell.

 

I'm one of those who eagerly looked forward to their 66s, but didn't buy because of the issues and i don't plan to until the model has been sorted out.

[TomScrut]

Just now, rob D2 said:

But you are just guessing at the cost , nothing more, and £20 is actually quite a lot of the margin on a loco ( and I haven’t seen the Hattons margins, nor will i ever but I have seen the margins on Bachmann products ).

 

They were selling them for £119. That is a fact. They were RRPing them at £150. That is also a fact. £150-£119=£31. So IF they were making money at £119 (which I think it's fair to say they were or they wouldn't have done it) then that means if they can sell for £150 and increase their margin then it would probably be worth looking at.

 

If they needed to spend £30,000 on tooling mods (given the figures thrown about on here by those who supposedly know suggest £100k ish to tool an entire loco), £30,000 to modify some smaller parts on the moulds locally doesn't sound unreasonable. If they did 2000 more locos (4 liveries x500 , then a £15 contribution from each loco would sort that side of it out. Another fiver for production issues such as painting the inside of the body and doing some better gluing and soldering also doesn't sound unreasonable to me. That gives them £11 more margin and all costs covered by a run.

 

Obviously I am making presumptions here but I don't think they are crazy or unreasonable.

[adb968008]

All these calculations as to cost price.

look at the Dapol class 59’s.. £154 rrp, and theres a trade margin in that too.

 

I’d wager the tooling costs are comparable, but i’d equally wager theres a ton more been made by Hattons, and they dont have a middle man to deal with.  I dont think for one minute they are starving at £119, sure not making as much, but theyve recovered cash much faster and saved that warehousing costs by getting rid too.

 

£119 is 20% discount of rrp, or there abouts.. which is little different to standard discounting.

 

I’m sure they've done their sums, if anything I think they made a smart move and are sitting quite smug.

Edited February 15, 2021 by adb968008

[Hilux5972]

Regardless of the issues, it was obviously popular enough with modellers. 

[rob D2]

Winner of the year ! Kit build category ?

 

sorry , I’m being a cow.

 

if they sort it out next time round , I’ll have one .

[Sir TophamHatt]

And to remind everyone of the link:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1484058/1000588/1000635/1000818/hattons_originals_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_diesel_locos_united_kingdom/sceneprodlist.aspx

Edited February 16, 2021 by Sir TophamHatt

[KDG]

Another one bought this morning. Been lucky so far, they've all been perfect!

[The Black Hat]

Massive Kudos to Hatton's for getting model of the year. Fantastic achievement. Despite the inperfections of some, I would think that there must be many more with no faults or happy modellers regardless. 

An excellent step forwards and I hope it leads to other projects. 

[newbryford]

10 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

And to remind everyone of the link:

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/1484058/1000588/1000635/1000818/hattons_originals_oo_gauge_1_76_scale_diesel_locos_united_kingdom/sceneprodlist.aspx

 

 I now use "h4-66" as a search and it brings them up as well.

https://www.hattons.co.uk/stocklist/siteresults.aspx?searchfield=h4-66

Yesterday, there were 26 results, as of 1900 16/2/21 it's now 27

I haven't noted which is the extra one.

[SouthernMafia]

On 15/02/2021 at 19:55, rob D2 said:

Winner of the year ! Kit build category ?

 

sorry , I’m being a cow.

 

if they sort it out next time round , I’ll have one .

 

It would be nice to know if "next time" is being considered. Do I pick up another model or two at £119 and renumber, or wait for a potential batch 2? If I wait and it never comes, I've missed the boat, although quite happy with my 4 variations thus far despite the flaws.

Some indication from Hattons would be nice, they used to be good at communicating, why has that changed? :/

[TomScrut]

9 hours ago, The Black Hat said:

Massive Kudos to Hatton's for getting model of the year. Fantastic achievement. Despite the inperfections of some, I would think that there must be many more with no faults or happy modellers regardless. 

An excellent step forwards and I hope it leads to other projects. 

 

I voted for it despite the issues IIRC. Reason being that I think it's an excellent loco once sorted and I do like the fact that they have had a go at pushing the envelope as such.

 

There are 3 OO 66s on the market and this is the only one that has working marker lights or independent end lighting  

[adb968008]

1 hour ago, ERIC ALLTORQUE said:

66957 has one popped back into stock

Freightliner.. just keeps grinding on..

[YesTor]

On 15/02/2021 at 13:09, gary_lner said:

I'm looking at getting a suitable version of the hattons 66 that would be suitable for a respray into 66749 when it was in its grey livery with Gbrf logo and number following it's conversion from being used on Dutch railways. 

Would 66731 be a good candidate as it has the same headlight style. But it's a low emission with smaller feul tank according to the hattons matrix. 

Any help or info would be great.

 

Regards Gary 

 

Hi Gary

 

Yes, 66731 would be suitable in relation to the front-end and headlight detail.  The only detail that needs changing are the UK-style bufferbeam steps for the EU-style ones - as shown below painted in white - which should be quite easy: 

 

 

 

As you correctly highlight, 66747-749 all have the larger fuel tanks, so you'll need to swap the tank for an earlier pre-low-emission fuel tank.  As the three ex-Dutch locos are quite unique in this respect sadly there are no other suitable alternatives available: 

 

 

 

Of course, if you are feeling more adventurous you could always attempt recreating one as per how they arrived in the UK, whereby the front end detail was quite different - elliptical headlight assembly, more-pronounced horn grill, different steps arrangement on bufferbeam and front end, extra/different lamp-bracket(s), extra pair of air pipes, rectangular buffers, plus the patch on the cab roof where presumably the external air-conditioning unit was removed.  I quite like them like this actually:

 

 

 

 

Best 

Al

 

Edited February 17, 2021 by YesTor

[JohnC]

Well done to Hattons for their best locomotive award, absolutely delighted for them.

I have read so many negative comments on this forum that it surprised me that Hattons sold any of their class 66 locos!!!

However, it did not deter me from purchasing 14 of them and I am delighted with every one of them. Yes, I had to do a bit of work on the axles to prevent rotating axle end losses and get rid of any slight wobble but it certainly did not stretch my capabilities.

There is not another model of the class 66 comparable with the Hattons model and, as said before, it hauls a 16 wagon HTA rake up my Helix as if on the flat.

It would be great if another run was done with different liveries but, if not, very happy with the selection I have.