Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[159220]

Basing paint colour on photography is never going to end well. Especially because both the samples and the prototypes shown here are photos, on a screen, which emits light (does not reflect like a paint to the eye)....

 

Trains are more often than not, painted to RAL colour standard, which is predominately a paint specification standard. This certainly shall be the standard used by Hatton's factory. The difficulty with the GBRf livery (I shall not break commercial confidence by sharing specific codes) is the GBRf 'gold' aka orange is specified by GBRf as a Pantone, which is predominately a print specification standard (not to say you cannot get Pantone paints! I shall avoid the tangent of TPE livery using Pantone as a vinyl that is printed...doing what a Pantone should do, but tricky to RAL match). The error here on the model, appears to be down to the process of matching a RAL to a Pantone. Certainly when you use a guide to convert the Pantone, it recommends the RAL on the model. Now naturally, I am sure Hattons know this and shall be specifying Pantone to the GBRf liveries. 

 

For sake of point, I attach the Pantone GBRf use and the matched RAL below. Note, this is subjective to your computer screen set up and it an emission of light and does not reflect the printed colour. But you'll see, it 'matches' the prototypes and highlights the problem facing anyone wanting to accurately portray a GBRf livery. 

 

Additional note! Some railway manufacturers, shall not use Pantone at all, and shall match to RAL. Thus explains why you do see different shades. Cannot go into that further. Trust me, it is a fascinating world out there! 

 

Pantone:

 

RAL:

Edited February 22, 2019 by 159220

[The Black Hat]

Thanks for the interesting reply. I think that it confirms that some of the UK based repaints when they have been put through must have been done with the higher shade and matched that way. Hence the yellow warning panel colour - which I think is darker now than it used to be (there's two different shades for that too). It also explains / confirms why some of the warning panels don't stand out as much if, like 66740, you then use darker warning yellow with the Pantone shade of GBRF, which are almost the same, but you can see a difference.

 

So, will Hatton's replicate the two different shades of GBRf 'orange' on their models as the prototypes have done. I do really feel sorry for them as this has come about as standards and expectations get so much higher, but as they are wanting to produce the most accurate 66 model to date, you would think this would be done. Another reason why we mention it so much is the confidence that Hattons will get it right, with advice after this mammoth indulgence in paint froth.

[Scottish-Exile]

Painted samples on display at Model Rail Scotland. They look the biz.

 

 

 

 

 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

34 minutes ago, Scottish-Exile said:

Painted samples on display at Model Rail Scotland. They look the biz.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for posting the photos. 

 

They already look brilliant, so imagine what the finished models will look like after colour and livery amendments. 

[adb968008]

On 21/02/2019 at 23:43, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Spot on. 66701 was repainted at Eastleigh Arlington in December 2015/January 2016. It kept a similar livery to what it originally carried, just with a different shade of orange to the cab ends, the large GBRf lettering on the bodysides and small Europort lettering and logos on the cabs. There was no large Europort "curves" added to the bodysides unlike the others that were repainted. It was said at the time by GBRf that they wanted to keep the loco as original as possible, thus the repaint and differences were minimal. 

 

Again notice the difference in GBRf oranges and yellows. Before been repainted the yellow warning seems non existent although even from a distance after a repaint the difference between GBRf orange and yellow warning on the cab fronts is noticeable. I attach a couple of images to show what I mean. Neither are my images. 

 

Before: https://www.flickr.com/photos/neildowning/14812563203/in/photolist-

 

After: https://www.flickr.com/photos/124193440@N06/24481092221/in/photolist-

On that before picture, the yellow looks to befading out to the Orange underneath.

[TravisM]

I always think that paint on models is subjective as we see them under harsher artificial lighting and from different perspectives.  Natural light is softer unless it’s brilliant sunshine and therefore colours can appear different hues at different times of the day.

 

Also remember that paint will “bleach” naturally, added with weathering, two loco’s painted at the same time can appear slightly different a couple of months later.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

23 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

On that before picture, the yellow looks to befading out to the Orange underneath.

 

Complex isn't it. I was never aware of just how many different shades of GBRf orange their is. I knew that their were differences between the earlier batches and the latest batches and the ones repainted, but I never noticed just how many differences their were. 

 

As others have mentioned this makes it even more difficult to not only form the correct shades of orange and warning yellow to match but also apply them to the correct locos. Upon looking through some Flickr photos their are clear differences between 740 and 756/762. 

[Coryton]

16 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Complex isn't it. I was never aware of just how many different shades of GBRf orange their is. I knew that their were differences between the earlier batches and the latest batches and the ones repainted, but I never noticed just how many differences their were. 

 

As others have mentioned this makes it even more difficult to not only form the correct shades of orange and warning yellow to match but also apply them to the correct locos. Upon looking through some Flickr photos their are clear differences between 740 and 756/762. 

 

I do find it interesting that the difference between 'warning yellow' and a very similar colour used in the livery on one vehicle can be somewhat less than the difference in warning yellow between different vehicles, presumably due to fading/weathering.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

9 minutes ago, Coryton said:

 

I do find it interesting that the difference between 'warning yellow' and a very similar colour used in the livery on one vehicle can be somewhat less than the difference in warning yellow between different vehicles, presumably due to fading/weathering.

 

Good point. Speaking of fading/weathering I remember a few years ago that some of the large GBRf numbers on the bodysides of the 66s were peeling off. So again that just shows how locos can change with the weather. 

[James Makin]

13 minutes ago, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Good point. Speaking of fading/weathering I remember a few years ago that some of the large GBRf numbers on the bodysides of the 66s were peeling off. So again that just shows how locos can change with the weather. 

 

It’s crazy how time passes but remember it must also be about 19 years or so since the first Bluebirds arrived, it does seem like yesterday but a lot happens to weather these machines (and people!) in a couple of decades! 

 

As long as the base shade is fairly good to start, it’s easy to change up or down the tone with a simple Matt varnish and wash of thinned paint to suit... it’s too new for me but it’d be nice to see someone tackling the present-day Freightliner 66/5 fleet, many of those that haven’t seen paint are in a shocking condition! 

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi everyone,

 

Having had the opportunity to see the Hattons 66’s up close today at Model Rail I personally think they look great. The level of detail achieved is excellent and the colours look very good and I would describe as fresh from works. The new sound project from Bif to go in them with Rail Rumble will be the best sound yet in a Model too.

 

Cheers

Mark

[Great Western]

On 23/02/2019 at 12:59, James Makin said:

 

It’s crazy how time passes but remember it must also be about 19 years or so since the first Bluebirds arrived, it does seem like yesterday but a lot happens to weather these machines (and people!) in a couple of decades! 

 

As long as the base shade is fairly good to start, it’s easy to change up or down the tone with a simple Matt varnish and wash of thinned paint to suit... it’s too new for me but it’d be nice to see someone tackling the present-day Freightliner 66/5 fleet, many of those that haven’t seen paint are in a shocking condition! 

 

 

Its nice to see the “bluebirds” nickname used, I believe I attached the name to them back in 2001 I took some (poor) pictures of the first batch leaving Newport for London, I sent the pictures to Rail Express under the title “GBRF Bluebirds fly the nest” - bluebirds being “my” team, Cardiff City. Rail Express didn’t use my pictures but did use the nickname I made up, looks like it still hangs on to them.

[BigDee]

Typical, I drop into Hatton's today to view the 66 collection to find the samples had not arrived back from Glasgow 

 

Managed to pick up some Peco Bullhead flexi whilst there.....

[James Makin]

21 hours ago, Great Western said:

 

 

Its nice to see the “bluebirds” nickname used, I believe I attached the name to them back in 2001 I took some (poor) pictures of the first batch leaving Newport for London, I sent the pictures to Rail Express under the title “GBRF Bluebirds fly the nest” - bluebirds being “my” team, Cardiff City. Rail Express didn’t use my pictures but did use the nickname I made up, looks like it still hangs on to them.

 

Nice, that’s a decent claim to fame there! That’ll be what stuck with me, I used to savour every glossy page of Rail Express back in those days, and seeing these shiny new machines arrive in the magazine and then soon enough seeing them out on the network - magic! 

 

My favourite thing was seeing the convoys of the box-fresh EWS ones, normally like 5 consecutively numbered ‘66’s - looking forward to modelling these formations one day!

 

Cheers,

James

[Great Western]

Being a resident of Newport at the time I would often see upto 10 brand new 66s las through the station often going to Wembley for work on the West Coast upgrade.

 

i remember 66503/504/505 being stabled on Godfrey Road with 504 minus freightliner side brandings.

[big jim]

I know it’s not a huge issue from normal viewing distances but 66751 has an incorrect cab interior, it’s a eurospec cab with a wrap around drivers desk as opposed to a pedestal in the centre 

 

 

[letterspider]

On 21/02/2019 at 14:52, DRS Crewe On A Mission said:

 

Funny you should post another comment regarding the GBRF orange. I was just researching the loco on Flickr and as you have posted with the above images, the loco in reality is significantly different to the Hattons model. As you mention the yellow warning on the cab ends of the loco can barely be differentiated with the GBRF orange on the loco in reality. Whereas on the Hattons model their is clearly difference in the two types of orange used. 

 

I agree with Black Hat that the GBRF and the types of orange used on the livery itself and warning yellow needs to be checked and amended as it looks inaccurate. 

 

Can you look at this please Dave?

 

Thank you very much in advance. 

 

A GBRF 66 passed my window today and I had to check this out. I didn't have a camera to hand but it definitely had a clear yellow / orange combination similar to the Hattons model.

So they do exist - next time I will have my camera at hand.

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

On ‎21‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 20:30, big jim said:

 

Here is the first of the class 66701 in original livery next to ex Europorte livery 66752, you can clearly see the difference in orange applied to both 

 

 

Thank you for posting the photo and a nice one it is. 

 

It just shows the clear difference between the orange and yellow on the cab ends of the latest locos e.g. 66752 and the earlier locos where the warning yellow is less noticeable. 

 

On ‎23‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 12:59, James Makin said:

 

It’s crazy how time passes but remember it must also be about 19 years or so since the first Bluebirds arrived, it does seem like yesterday but a lot happens to weather these machines (and people!) in a couple of decades! 

 

As long as the base shade is fairly good to start, it’s easy to change up or down the tone with a simple Matt varnish and wash of thinned paint to suit... it’s too new for me but it’d be nice to see someone tackling the present-day Freightliner 66/5 fleet, many of those that haven’t seen paint are in a shocking condition! 

 

I have just seen a photo calling the GBRf 66s Bluebirds. That name has definitely stuck and I have seen it used as a reference to them on many occasions over the years. 

 

You will be pleased to hear that some of the Freightliner 66s are been put through cab repaints at Leeds Midland Road. Quite a few have been repainted so far 508 been one of the latest ones. Most of the time I have noticed that the cab repaints happen hand in hand with the fitting of new light clusters and new Freightliner logos. 

[DRS Crewe On A Mission]

40 minutes ago, letterspider said:

 

A GBRF 66 passed my window today and I had to check this out. I didn't have a camera to hand but it definitely had a clear yellow / orange combination similar to the Hattons model.

So they do exist - next time I will have my camera at hand.

 

Interesting isn't it. The main difference that myself and some others are mentioning is that 740 has less of a noticeable difference on the cab fronts between the orange and warning yellow. For me personally it is barely noticeable at all. On the other hand you have locos like 66752 as Jim has posted and as I have referenced in his photo in the post above whereby the difference between the orange and warning yellow is noticeable and can be significantly differentiated between. 

 

In relation to the Hattons models this would suggest that 740 needs amending to show a less of a difference between the orange and warning yellow and that Hattons currently have 756 and 762 correct whereby the difference between the orange and warning yellow is noticeable. So of these three it would appear that only 740 needs to be corrected provided that Hattons are happy with the colours on the samples of 756 and 762. 

 

Unfortunately I haven't got many photos of the GBRf 66s, definitely not of individual locos in different batches showing the differences in cab ends and their colours. Although the images posted in the previous few pages by others show what I mention. You may have spotted a GBRf 66 numbered between 752 and 789 whereby the difference in colour on the cab ends is more noticeable. 

[Steadfast]

The sandy looking orange is repaints done at Eastleigh a few years ago. 66701 in Jim's photo is a total repaint, but in near enough the original style. 59003 also carries the sandy shade.

A few were painted at Brush at a similar time(728 to about 736 I think it was) and these are noticeably more orange, more akin to the paint applied in the factory.

The locos at Eastleigh are sprayed orange then masked then the blue is sprayed. It is noticable that on some the blue is wearing around the edges, given a few little orange 'tears' around the numbers. Nice to see not everything is stickers these days 

 

Jo

 

[big jim]

1 hour ago, Steadfast said:

A few were painted at Brush at a similar time(728 to about 736 I think it was) and these are noticeably more orange, more akin to the paint applied in the factory. 

 

Jo

 

 

As it happens 735 (possible brush repaint is my loco tonight) 

 

 

 

 

My personal opinion is the yellownin the model of 66740 is too ‘lemony’ 

Edited February 27, 2019 by big jim

[Steadfast]

Yes 735 was a Brush job, shows the orange nicely. Think it was the second batch of Barbie livery locos and the former 66401-405 that got Europorte GBRf at Brush.

 

Jo

[The Black Hat]

Like I have said, I feel sorry for Hatton's and the fact that this is an issue, but now the shades of colour have become something given the high standards of the model. A few people might not have noticed but its clear that some have and would like to see the various shades of the prototype, replicated on the model. Unless you really knew the detail differences in shade, caused by the way that the fleet has been sent for repaints at various locations, it might have gone unnoticed.

 

Higher standards have been driven up because the models are so much better now, but that also there is the scope to make alterations to include these variables. With Hattons its 66s with shades of GBRF paint, with Realtrack its seats in 142s that could be done, with Dapol its lighting options for the 68. Its great to see so many innovations done to increase standards for a quality product, while keeping prices sensible for such detail.

[big jim]

Some more pics of the mine field that is gbrf livery

 

66719 which is a repaint from ‘metronet’ livery, compare that to the light cluster pic above 

 

Completely different orange to the one behind 

 

And 66741 with no distinguishable yellow on the end (from a distance) 

 

Different oranges side by side

 

oh and one had a sightly different shade of blue as well

 

[adb968008]

Gbrf 66’s are like VW beetles.. no two are the same