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Andy Y

Locomotion Models - updates and new coaching stock.

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I suspect that if the NRM were to get involved with 6 wheel coaches they would go to a manufacturer who could offer a really good job and not accept any sort of half measures or mechanical nonsenses.

 

If only that had applied to 6-wheeled locomotives

 

[sigh]

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Ever since Locomotion entered the market of commissions I’ve wondered if they have missed a trick with exclusive rolling stock in their fleet. Now that they seem to have a link up with Rails, I’ve wondered if the Royal Train carriages they hold are ripe for modelling. As far as I am aware only the crimson Mk3s have ever been produced as rtr Royal train stock but they were an easy win.

 

Rails are producing the GNR Dynamometer car and you can’t get much more one off that so with what seems a rich market for Pullmans is a Royal train rake a possibility?

 

Ok way out thoughts are now back in their box and i’ll Stick to hoping for some non corridor GW stock....

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Ever since Locomotion entered the market of commissions I’ve wondered if they have missed a trick with exclusive rolling stock in their fleet. Now that they seem to have a link up with Rails, I’ve wondered if the Royal Train carriages they hold are ripe for modelling. As far as I am aware only the crimson Mk3s have ever been produced as rtr Royal train stock but they were an easy win.

 

Rails are producing the GNR Dynamometer car and you can’t get much more one off that so with what seems a rich market for Pullmans is a Royal train rake a possibility?

 

Ok way out thoughts are now back in their box and i’ll Stick to hoping for some non corridor GW stock....

 

NER

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Ever since Locomotion entered the market of commissions I’ve wondered if they have missed a trick with exclusive rolling stock in their fleet. Now that they seem to have a link up with Rails, I’ve wondered if the Royal Train carriages they hold are ripe for modelling. As far as I am aware only the crimson Mk3s have ever been produced as rtr Royal train stock but they were an easy win.

Rails are producing the GNR Dynamometer car and you can’t get much more one off that so with what seems a rich market for Pullmans is a Royal train rake a possibility?

Ok way out thoughts are now back in their box and i’ll Stick to hoping for some non corridor GW stock....

The Wolverton Royal Train stock is second only to the Wainright D on my "I can't believe they haven't done that" list.

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The Wolverton Royal Train stock is second only to the Wainright D on my "I can't believe they haven't done that" list.

Surely third  -  after 'Topaz' which would be natural company for the 'coppertop' !!?!

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The Wolverton Royal Train stock is second only to the Wainright D on my "I can't believe they haven't done that" list.

 

I think a full Royal train, or any train, must be unlikely.  I haven't studied this train, but likely coaches went in and out of it, adding to the difficulty of producing it.

 

That said, an LNWR version and an LMS/LNWR livery version would be splendid. 

 

In Grouping years it took the King all over - take a Hornby Castle, make it Windsor Castle (or a Castle temporarily called "Windsor Castle"), add HUGE lamps and coats of arms and send it through A Nod To Brent or anywhere else, frankly.

 

I can think of things possibly of more use:

 

- A Flying Scotsman set, pre-1914, with those massive ECJS 12-wheel clerestories. These are the perfect companion for the 1903 Locomotion/Bachmann GNR Large Atlantics and would overlap with the Stirling Single and any GN 6-wheelers.

 

- Edwardian Southern Belle Pullmans for the Bachmann Brighton Atlantics and anyone who bagged the OO Works I3 ( :sungum: ).

 

- Many people would like to see GW toplights, probably one of the most called-for pre-Grouping general service coach-types

 

- GCR matchboard/Barnums for the Locomotion/Bachmann Improved Director

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I think a full Royal train, or any train, must be unlikely.  I haven't studied this train, but likely coaches went in and out of it, adding to the difficulty of producing it.

 

That said, an LNWR version and an LMS/LNWR livery version would be splendid. 

 

In Grouping years it took the King all over - take a Hornby Castle, make it Windsor Castle (or a Castle temporarily called "Windsor Castle"), add HUGE lamps and coats of arms and send it through A Nod To Brent or anywhere else, frankly.

 

I can think of things possibly of more use:

 

- A Flying Scotsman set, pre-1914, with those massive ECJS 12-wheel clerestories. These are the perfect companion for the 1903 Locomotion/Bachmann GNR Large Atlantics and would overlap with the Stirling Single and any GN 6-wheelers.

 

- Edwardian Southern Belle Pullmans for the Bachmann Brighton Atlantics and anyone who bagged the OO Works I3 ( :sungum: ).

 

- Many people would like to see GW toplights, probably one of the most called-for pre-Grouping general service coach-types

 

- GCR matchboard/Barnums for the Locomotion/Bachmann Improved Director

 

The emerging problem with coaching stock is well highlighted by CJL over in the Model Rail Brighton E1 thread,  Coaches cost almost as much as locos to tool but inevitably can't command such a high retail prices there will be a move towards coach packs or sets to help recover costs.  Some of the vehicles you mention above are in some respects little different in complexity from the forthcoming Rails Dynamometer car although probably would not merit as much interior detail - but they would still be extremely pricey by mass produced r-t-r standards.  So their marketability has to be considered to an even greater extent than their desirability.

 

The GW Toplights are a slightly different case but an even more awkward one because, partly as a consequence of their long lives, they changed in detail noticeably over the years and the name covered a massive variety of vehicles before you even got to that issue.  Thus the question boils down to which ones do you make and what stage in their lives do you represent and do you go for (very expensive) slides in the tooling to allow more periods in the life of particular vehicles to be produced?  These questions have thus far put off the mass market manufacturers, including one who looked very seriously at the possibility of producing them but was not helped by poll results in a thread here on RMweb which gave an extremely, and unattainably, wide spread of what modellers wanted.  Potentially (once again) a good subject for kits but not so good for r-t-r I think.

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The emerging problem with coaching stock is well highlighted by CJL over in the Model Rail Brighton E1 thread,  Coaches cost almost as much as locos to tool but inevitably can't command such a high retail prices there will be a move towards coach packs or sets to help recover costs.  Some of the vehicles you mention above are in some respects little different in complexity from the forthcoming Rails Dynamometer car although probably would not merit as much interior detail - but they would still be extremely pricey by mass produced r-t-r standards.  So their marketability has to be considered to an even greater extent than their desirability.

 

The GW Toplights are a slightly different case but an even more awkward one because, partly as a consequence of their long lives, they changed in detail noticeably over the years and the name covered a massive variety of vehicles before you even got to that issue.  Thus the question boils down to which ones do you make and what stage in their lives do you represent and do you go for (very expensive) slides in the tooling to allow more periods in the life of particular vehicles to be produced?  These questions have thus far put off the mass market manufacturers, including one who looked very seriously at the possibility of producing them but was not helped by poll results in a thread here on RMweb which gave an extremely, and unattainably, wide spread of what modellers wanted.  Potentially (once again) a good subject for kits but not so good for r-t-r I think.

 

I don't disagree, but something must be done!

 

Careful selection of prototypes is important.  Another difficulty with GW Toplights, for instance, is the variety in truss rod arrangements.  On the other hand, produce a decent LSWR 56' underframe, and it'll get you many LSW coaches!

 

I am perfectly aware of the difficulties and expense, but those are challenges to be overcome, because they are not going to stop people wanting to see certain coaches produced or stop them wanting appropriate stock for their locomotives.

 

Too much reliance on what people say they want is probably a mistake; I am never convinced by polls anyhow, when it comes to anything outside the established norm of '50s-'80s periods.  I doubt that a commercially viable number of modellers would have come forward to demand either, I don't know, a Huntley& Palmer Peckett or a Stirling Single.  The people who made these decisions probably cleverly assessed they would be winners if produced.  None of us had a Reading Biscuit Factory layout or a stretch of 1870s ECML waiting for them 

 

The trick, it seems to me, is judging correctly what people will want if it's been produced. 

Edited by Edwardian

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I think a full Royal train, or any train, must be unlikely.  I haven't studied this train, but likely coaches went in and out of it, adding to the difficulty of producing it.

 

That said, an LNWR version and an LMS/LNWR livery version would be splendid. 

 

In Grouping years it took the King all over - take a Hornby Castle, make it Windsor Castle (or a Castle temporarily called "Windsor Castle"), add HUGE lamps and coats of arms and send it through A Nod To Brent or anywhere else, frankly.

At what point did the LMS Wolverton-based Royal Train set become the sole Royal Train in use which included sleeping accommodation? I did know this, but have forgotten. I do remember that for purely daytime use any of the other Big 4 companies could and did assemble a Royal Train from assorted saloons, dining cars and first class coaches, rather than borrow from the LMS.

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At what point did the LMS Wolverton-based Royal Train set become the sole Royal Train in use which included sleeping accommodation? I did know this, but have forgotten. I do remember that for purely daytime use any of the other Big 4 companies could and did assemble a Royal Train from assorted saloons, dining cars and first class coaches, rather than borrow from the LMS.

 

I'd like to know.  But I've seen a number of pictures of it on GW metals in the '30s.

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These questions have thus far put off the mass market manufacturers, including one who looked very seriously at the possibility of producing them but was not helped by poll results in a thread here on RMweb which gave an extremely, and unattainably, wide spread of what modellers wanted.  Potentially (once again) a good subject for kits but not so good for r-t-r I think.

 

A shame if true as that poll really doesn't have much in the way of validity given that it is tucked away in a hidden corner of RMweb that the majority likely have never seen.

 

What the poll does sort of show is that anyone tackling them needs to make a decision on a group to make that work for use in a train while at the same time trying for the most commonality to try and reduce tooling costs.

 

If they do come I expect it will either be from a retailer or a smaller company who can deal with the lower production runs and who won't get the same amount of moaning about the likely higher price the coaches would require.

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A shame if true as that poll really doesn't have much in the way of validity given that it is tucked away in a hidden corner of RMweb that the majority likely have never seen.

 

What the poll does sort of show is that anyone tackling them needs to make a decision on a group to make that work for use in a train while at the same time trying for the most commonality to try and reduce tooling costs.

 

If they do come I expect it will either be from a retailer or a smaller company who can deal with the lower production runs and who won't get the same amount of moaning about the likely higher price the coaches would require.

 

I think the poll is great for what the poll does, and there is a high degree of 'coincidence' between what the poll says people want and what gets produced.

 

There are acknowledged limitations, however. For one thing, the poll is not designed to differentiate between periods/conditions of stock, so gives you no help in deciding whether it is, say, worth tooling for that as-built boiler that never made past 1948.

 

It is also only really good for confirming what people think they want. Well, they do want what they think they want, mainly black BR steam engines and green and blue diesels, as it happens.  All of which is fine. 

 

What the poll is less adept at showing is what people do not necessarily wish brought into existence, but which they would, nevertheless, clamour to buy if released.  Pre-Grouping liveried loco releases often fall into this category.

 

Here, in waters not chartered by the pollsters, there be dragons, and it needs a shrewd manufacturer or commissioner to don his Brave Pants and take a view. It seems that, increasingly, they are doing so.  

 

At some point, this will extend to coaches.

Edited by Edwardian

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I think the poll is great for what the poll does, and there is a high degree of 'coincidence' between what the poll says people want and what gets produced.

 

There are acknowledged limitations, however. For one thing, the poll is not designed to differentiate between periods/conditions of stock, so gives you no help in deciding whether it is, say, worth tooling for that as-built boiler that never made past 1948.

 

It is also only really good for confirming what people think they want. Well, they do want what they think they want, mainly black BR steam engines and green and blue diesels, as it happens.  All of which is fine. 

 

What the poll is less adept at showing is what people do not necessarily wish brought into existence, but which they would, nevertheless, clamour to buy if released.  Pre-Grouping liveried loco releases often fall into this category.

 

Here, in waters not chartered by the pollsters, there be dragons, and it needs a shrewd manufacturer or commissioner to don his Brave Pants and take a view. It seems that, increasingly, they are doing so.  

 

At some point, this will extend to coaches.

 

A good insight. Naturally I have a wish list. An awful lot which was on it has been produced but an awful lot has not. Nevertheless, there is a heck of a thrill in an announcement of something I never thought to put on my wish list but some clever manufacturer has worked out what I want better than I have myself. Although there are many others, Heljan’s LNER O2s are a good example. Now, having created the lust, Heljan’s brakes are dragging on the earlier versions.  :(

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I don't disagree, but something must be done!

 

Careful selection of prototypes is important.  Another difficulty with GW Toplights, for instance, is the variety in truss rod arrangements.  On the other hand, produce a decent LSWR 56' underframe, and it'll get you many LSW coaches!

 

I am perfectly aware of the difficulties and expense, but those are challenges to be overcome, because they are not going to stop people wanting to see certain coaches produced or stop them wanting appropriate stock for their locomotives.

 

Too much reliance on what people say they want is probably a mistake; I am never convinced by polls anyhow, when it comes to anything outside the established norm of '50s-'80s periods.  I doubt that a commercially viable number of modellers would have come forward to demand either, I don't know, a Huntley& Palmer Peckett or a Stirling Single.  The people who made these decisions probably cleverly assessed they would be winners if produced.  None of us had a Reading Biscuit Factory layout or a stretch of 1870s ECML waiting for them 

 

The trick, it seems to me, is judging correctly what people will want if it's been produced. 

 

Your final point is very much the one that matters and I think realise is one that has been consistently proved in the past few years although the Stirling Single sits in a slightly different category as it is within a theme which collector wise stands on its own as a viable commercial model.

 

But I do wonder to what extent anyone, including those putting their homes on the financial line, can seriously invest in coaching stock of a more run-of-the-mill variety (which is really where the Toplights sit) because the need to come out with several variants and not just a one off such as a railmotor or a 2 coach set or 'a special' such as a dynamometer car.   I would honestly think that an NER petrol electric railcar stands more chance of making it to relatively early announcement and production from a commissioner than even a small series of roughly matching mainline passenger coaches,  and even a BG type vehicle, such as a GWR K40, would make a good standalone project and is more likely than a trio of Toplights of whatever pattern.

 

Possibly a group of modellers could get together in the same way as Revolution Trains came into being and get a Toplight project off the ground and I wonder if that approach might well be the only route to getting some Toplights?   Say 250 takers at about £1,000 each might manage three vehicles with a common(ish) underframe, a single style of bogie, and possibly even allowance for some minor bodywork variations to cover a wider period?  And obviously the more takers there are  (perhaps even including some retailers?) the lower the cost per head.

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If Locomotion plan later to release a GNR Atlantic, then ECJS 12-wheel stock would be appropriate. A train for a single, at the end of that loco's service, might be part 12-wheel stock and part 6-wheel, and it would be quite short.

 

EDIT: Locomotion already have a large atlantic on sale, I see.

 

Well, a train of ECJS 12-wheelers usually needed two singles (hence that atlantic!) so there's sound commercial sense there...

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I think the poll is great for what the poll does, and there is a high degree of 'coincidence' between what the poll says people want and what gets produced.

 

 

I suspect we are talking about 2 different polls.

 

I agree that the main, heavily publicized both on RMweb and in a magazine I believe, poll that took a temporary break has been influential and there has been as you say a high degree of 'coincidence'.

 

But when Stationmaster said "not helped by poll results in a thread here on RMweb" I took that to mean (given the topic was Toplights) he was referring to this poll http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118689-gwr-toplights-poll/

which is indeed tucked away in a hidden corner of RMweb that likely few have seen, relatively few voted in, and which produced at best ambiguous results that would make any manufacturer hesitate.

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There's nothing new in the train pack idea. When Triang produced Lord of the Isles and No. 123 they also produced matching coaches that were to a similar level of fidelity to the prototype. In the case of No. 123, these were representations of the ex-Caledonian 57ft carriages it ran with in the 50s, stretched to fit Triang's Mk 1 frames/ends moulding. (But hey the loco was stretched somewhat too!) Great Western modellers and others have much to be grateful for in the shortie clerestory coaches.

 

For many of the pre-Grouping passenger tank engines now produced RTR, the problem is that a different set of carriages would have to be produced for each loco livery variant!

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I suspect we are talking about 2 different polls.

 

I agree that the main, heavily publicized both on RMweb and in a magazine I believe, poll that took a temporary break has been influential and there has been as you say a high degree of 'coincidence'.

 

But when Stationmaster said "not helped by poll results in a thread here on RMweb" I took that to mean (given the topic was Toplights) he was referring to this poll http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/118689-gwr-toplights-poll/

which is indeed tucked away in a hidden corner of RMweb that likely few have seen, relatively few voted in, and which produced at best ambiguous results that would make any manufacturer hesitate.

 

That linked poll in respect of Toplights is indeed the one I was referring to - it being the only really detailed Toplight poll of which I am aware. 

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...

The Locomotionmodels.com team are currently reviewing some areas of the business, and we’re looking forward to developing our plans for the future. ...

 

We’ve recently developed a partnership agreement with Rails of Sheffield, which will enable us to work closely together on certain key projects. We’re also exploring a range of other ideas for new releases, including coaches for the Stirling Single – watch this space for more details!

Coaches for the Stirling Single would be quite delightful.

 

As much as I would dearly love to see someone brave enough to take on the GWR toplights - I don't think they are a suitable subject for Locomotion.

 

More relevant to me for the "National Collection in Miniature" concept (and the partnership with Rails of Sheffield) is a different subject.

 

May I present the LNER Coronation train as my suggestion for the "National Collection in Miniature"?

  • It's iconic
  • It's historic
  • It makes for perfect presentation box packaging
  • Even though the museum is "National" it is on the east coast main line where the Coronation ran
  • It's serendipitous (given Mallard and the LNER Dynamometer car are in the collection)
  • Given the hint of cooperation with Rails of Sheffield surely a "126mph record" boxed set containing coaches (along with two items in the museum) is a obvious museum sale item

Before you say it's too expensive, a sensibly condensed four car set plus observation car is not out of bounds. People regularly purchase five coaches when offered by the likes of Hornby, Whether the full rake could be developed in a cost effective way is a reasonable question but US manufacturers have been doing this for years.

 

A West Riding set could be offered.

 

The observation car would sell well individually.

 

I don't think 'work a day' coaches are the right choice for Locomotion's foray into coaches. There has to be some cachet to attract impulse buying. It needs to be something special people would not necessarily purchase for their primary layout.

Edited by Ozexpatriate
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A great idea and one which I suggested on the Jubilee's anniversary some three years ago,However the world moves on and the economies of the UK and China with it.Being unsentimental and hard -headed,it's a judgement call as to whether such a project would be viable at present. That said,I am sure that the production of such a set would meet with gasps of admiration. We wish... :yahoo:

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With the Stirling single, GN atlantic, Hornby's N2 and a J52 all available RTR and Heljan's O2 with GN cab a possible future release, I really hope some Great Northern stock is produced, but it would be a brave move. Bachmann's sumptuous birdcage stock in SECR livery is still readily available even when reduced to £50. Strangely Hornby's generic SECR three plank wagon sold out almost immediately despite it bearing little in common with the prototype. This would seem to indicate price rather than accuracy is the over-riding consideration when we decide on our purchases. I'm guessing a rake of 3 six wheelers would be around the £300 mark if the Dynamometer car is any guide.

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Coaches for the Stirling Single would be quite delightful.

 

As much as I would dearly love to see someone brave enough to take on the GWR toplights - I don't think they are a suitable subject for Locomotion.

 

More relevant to me for the "National Collection in Miniature" concept (and the partnership with Rails of Sheffield) is a different subject.

 

May I present the LNER Coronation train as my suggestion for the "National Collection in Miniature"?

  • It's iconic
  • It's historic
  • It makes for perfect presentation box packaging
  • Even though the museum is "National" it is on the east coast main line where the Coronation ran
  • It's serendipitous (given Mallard and the LNER Dynamometer car are in the collection)
  • Given the hint of cooperation with Rails of Sheffield surely a "126mph record" boxed set containing coaches (along with two items in the museum) is a obvious museum sale item
Before you say it's too expensive, a sensibly condensed four car set plus observation car is not out of bounds. People regularly purchase five coaches when offered by the likes of Hornby, Whether the full rake could be developed in a cost effective way is a reasonable question but US manufacturers have been doing this for years.

 

A West Riding set could be offered.

 

The observation car would sell well individually.

 

I don't think 'work a day' coaches are the right choice for Locomotion's foray into coaches. There has to be some cachet to attract impulse buying. It needs to be something special people would not necessarily purchase for their primary layout.

I agree Ozexpatriate. I think that sort of mid hundreds price for something that is iconic and exquisite sells to both collectors and the better off modeller and is the sort of item that Hornby could make and sell without needing to resort to discounting.

 

David

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With the Stirling single, GN atlantic, Hornby's N2 and a J52 all available RTR and Heljan's O2 with GN cab a possible future release, I really hope some Great Northern stock is produced, but it would be a brave move. Bachmann's sumptuous birdcage stock in SECR livery is still readily available even when reduced to £50. Strangely Hornby's generic SECR three plank wagon sold out almost immediately despite it bearing little in common with the prototype. This would seem to indicate price rather than accuracy is the over-riding consideration when we decide on our purchases. I'm guessing a rake of 3 six wheelers would be around the £300 mark if the Dynamometer car is any guide.

 

It is almost as if you are suggesting that much of the buying public does not care to distinguish between an accurate model and a travesty!  If that were true, these boards would be full of people fighting for the right to be sold inaccurate models and objecting to any intrusion upon their cherished ignorance of the prototype! Surely not. :jester:

 

I think you are too pessimistic.

 

The Bachmann Blue Pullman sold.  The Locomotion/Rapido APT sold.  Sets requiring the vast amount of tooling necessary to produce a whole train of vehicles to the levels of accuracy and detail that are state of the art means high prices. 

 

If people are offered accurate, even expensive accurate, they (or enough of them) will buy it if it is the right subject. There, as always, is the catch, of course.

 

 

Coaches for the Stirling Single would be quite delightful.

 

As much as I would dearly love to see someone brave enough to take on the GWR toplights - I don't think they are a suitable subject for Locomotion.

 

More relevant to me for the "National Collection in Miniature" concept (and the partnership with Rails of Sheffield) is a different subject.

 

May I present the LNER Coronation train as my suggestion for the "National Collection in Miniature"?

  • It's iconic
  • It's historic
  • It makes for perfect presentation box packaging
  • Even though the museum is "National" it is on the east coast main line where the Coronation ran
  • It's serendipitous (given Mallard and the LNER Dynamometer car are in the collection)
  • Given the hint of cooperation with Rails of Sheffield surely a "126mph record" boxed set containing coaches (along with two items in the museum) is a obvious museum sale item

Before you say it's too expensive, a sensibly condensed four car set plus observation car is not out of bounds. People regularly purchase five coaches when offered by the likes of Hornby, Whether the full rake could be developed in a cost effective way is a reasonable question but US manufacturers have been doing this for years.

 

A West Riding set could be offered.

 

The observation car would sell well individually.

 

I don't think 'work a day' coaches are the right choice for Locomotion's foray into coaches. There has to be some cachet to attract impulse buying. It needs to be something special people would not necessarily purchase for their primary layout.

 

I think the Coronation set is a good idea, and I think it would be similar to the Blue Pullman and the APT in terms of selling despite the inevitably very high costs of the complete set. I think it would sell. In a similar vein, the 10-coach 1935 Centenary set for the Cornish Riviera.

 

I am not sure I agree concerning "workaday" coaches.  I suspect many of the coaches you regard as workaday would have been anything but when introduced by pre-Grouping companies. 

 

Much like any subject, the prototypes would have to be chosen carefully, with a view to (a) longevity and number of livery variants, and (b) a sufficient degree of commonality to make the tooling costs sub-insane.

 

With regard to various examples given by various people in this and other threads:

 

- GWR Toplights - I would not suggest this as a Locomotion commission, but I have no doubt these would sell.  There will be issues of lack of commonality that make it a difficult proposition for a manufacturer, even bogies and underframe trussing varied.  But, they are a useful coach as they were a staple of mainline express services from the 1900s to the 1950s.  Moreover, pretty though those matching sets of the splendid Hornby Colletts are, such sights were rare. Unlike the contemporary Maunsells, which typically ran in sets, a GW or WR train should be a mix of coach styles, including plenty of panelled toplights, and Colletts, in order to be prototypical.

 

- SE&CR Birdcages - The only issue with these Bachmann coaches, the first pre-Grouping RTR coach release in recent times - is that they lack suitable motive power for their original condition.  Usually we have the opposite problem, of course, but I do not think a C or an H would be likely motive power when introduced in 1912.  The P would never have been able to move them!  If you had a J tank, or D or E or F class 4-4-0s, they might be better fits.  There have been frequent calls for a D Class in its full Wainwright livery.  If one were ever produced, anyone who hasn't bought a Birdcage 3-set in lake will be kicking themselves. As things are, both the D and E are available as white-metal kits from SE Finecast, which I guess shows how relatively few of us manage to build kits locos these days. 

 

- GNR 6-wheelers have been mentioned/called for in connection with the Single.  Such coaches were far from workaday, many being introduced as ECJS on Anglo-Scotch expresses. With an obvious locomotive tie-in (and many other uses), they make sense, and would be another 'first'. It would be interesting to see how a manufacturer would tackle the 6-wheel underframe to negotiate tight curves, but as someone pointed out, 6-wheel coaches have been a feature of Continental HO for years.

 

- ECJS 12-wheelers - I support Guy here.  These are magnificent beasts. Big luxurious clerestories.  Again, they cannot be dismissed as 'workaday' and they are the perfect accompaniment to the GNR large boiler Atlantics that we now have as both a Locomotion special and a Bachmann main-range option in GN livery.  There gave been calls for the small-boiler Atlantics to be made.  Well GN examples would be equally at home with ECJS clerestories and equally bereft without them. But, built over a period of years at several different workshops by railway companies responsible for the route, like the GW toplights, the coaches' lack of commonality could make them a daunting prospect for any manufacturer.

 

I think some, perhaps eventually all, of these will come.  Who would have predicted some of the stuff we've seen emerge in recent years?

 

For some of these coaches, I think I must concede that the market hasn't yet evolved to make them a viable proposition just yet, but the market is changing.

 

.   

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I think one thing we need to bear in mind in all of this debate is the brand name - National Collection In Miniature.  this implies surely that any models issued under that brand will reflect exactly what it says on the tin box, i.e. it will be a model of an item which is in the National Collection (of railway locos and stock).  It could conceivably be extended to include items in wider preservation ownership although really depends on how 'pure' Locomotion wishes to keep the NCIM brand.   Thus by implication if we follow that logic the NCIM cannot include models of items which are not in the National Collection or, possibly, are no in preservation elsewhere.  

 

And to my way of thinking it cannot logically include models of things which no longer exist unless of course someone somewhere decides it is to become 'just another' model railway brand (and somehow I can't really see that as likely).

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