Locomotion Models - updates and new coaching stock.

[Steamport Southport]

For those that really want this set, why not buy the Golden Age set, brass, OO scale painted and ready to run ?

 

I doubt a version in plastic would be that much cheaper, and probably not as nice either.

 

 

I think they work out at about £250 to £350 each back in 2013 according to the website. You are talking about nearly £3000 for a train.

 

I doubt any RTR plastic model is going to be anywhere that price.

 

 

 

Jason

[adb968008]

I think they work out at about £250 to £350 each back in 2013 according to the website. You are talking about nearly £3000 for a train.

 

I doubt any RTR plastic model is going to be anywhere that price.

 

 

 

Jason

Lot less than that currently, I just bought the two observation cars for £150 each.

 

Regular teaks about £200 a piece

Edited July 17, 2018 by adb968008

[mckinneyc]

They also have marketability, after a year or so as an exclusive split up carriage sets could find themselves in the main range with different liveries.

 

I'm meaning if a mainstream manufacturer takes them on

Edited July 19, 2018 by mckinneyc

[CF MRC]

I haven’t followed this thread particularly, but wouldn’t one of the magnificent LNWR Royal Carriages make a rather good ‘must have’ model?

 

Tim

[Edwardian]

They also have marketability, after a year or so as an exclusive split up carriage sets could find themselves in the main range with different liveries.

 

I'm meaning if a mainstream manufacturer takes them on

 

Two types of coaches have been mooted in this topic in response to the announcement that coaches for the Stirling Single are under consideration:

 

- ECJS 12-wheel clerestories

 

- GNR 6-wheelers

 

I would love to see, and mortgage my house to buy, both types.  As I have said before, the ECJS clerestories would be a perfect match for both Locomotion and Bachmann main range GNR large-boiler Atlantics (1903).  I have also suggested that they would very probably be prohibitively expensive to produce.  

 

The GNR 6-wheelers might fit better with your suggestion.  Choose the correct prototypes and you can have ECJS versions, GNR versions and, possibly, M&GN versions. Some 6-wheel stock was built for GN general service, some was built as ECJS and then cascaded to GN use (resulting in very few ECJS 6-wheelers noted in the 1909 diagram book), and some GN stock was cascaded to the M&GN in 1903. 

 

So, how about a later body style or styles for the Single, allowing the model to represent class members through the 1880s, '90s and 1900s, each paired with appropriate 6-wheelers?

 

 

I haven’t followed this thread particularly, but wouldn’t one of the magnificent LNWR Royal Carriages make a rather good ‘must have’ model?

 

Tim

 

I'd like to see this, but I'd rather see:

 

- For the West Coast a 2pm set

 

- For the East, a Flying Scotsman set with aforesaid 12-wheel clerestories

 

Generally, though, raising awareness of some of the fantastic and gorgeously turned out stock that ran with some of the pre-Grouping express types we are now seeing released is no bad thing.

[The Black Hat]

Duplicated Post.

Edited July 19, 2018 by The Black Hat

[The Black Hat]

I'd like to see this, but I'd rather see:

 

- For the West Coast a 2pm set

 

- For the East, a Flying Scotsman set with aforesaid 12-wheel clerestories

 

Generally, though, raising awareness of some of the fantastic and gorgeously turned out stock that ran with some of the pre-Grouping express types we are now seeing released is no bad thing.

 

Still sat here thinking that NER Clerestory or Elliptical stock has more variations and more areas that could see use prototypically than the suggestions above, or the ECJs or GCR stock.

[Compound2632]

I'd like to see this, but I'd rather see:

 

- For the West Coast a 2pm set

 

The original 1893 corridor 42' carriages with a RTR Jeanie Deans? That would be nice. But I suspect you have in mind the 1908 12-wheelers. Magnificent vehicles though few in number. However, the D9 diners would be generally useful. With the project to build a replica George the Fifth, there's the possibility of a tie-in. 

 

Though on thinking further, I'd rather see a 12"/ft set of carriages built to go with the George.

 

For models, something humdrum, numerous and widely-distributed would really be most useful. Numerically, the front runners have to be the LNWR D297 6-wheel third (827 built though a considerable number converted to brake thirds) and the L&Y D39 49' bogie third (808 built). The LNWR 6-wheelers had a much wider geographical distribution.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Compound2632

[Ozexpatriate]

For those that really want this set, why not buy the Golden Age set, brass, OO scale painted and ready to run ?

 

I doubt a version in plastic would be that much cheaper, and probably not as nice either.

There's nothing to stop people from doing so should they wish.

 

This was a suggestion on the topic of coaches for the museum to produce.

 

I would expect a reduced five-car plastic version to aggregate not much more than £500 even with premium retail pricing.

 

The streamlined units have less detail complexity (and certainly livery complexity) than examples like the dynamometer car.  Volume coach retail pricing seems to be in the range of £50 - £80 today. If brass models are freely available for £150 then this would not be a good idea. Having said that, I don't believe the Golden Age models are available new today and the second hand market is highly variable.

 

A more relevant observation, made earlier, is that the Coronation set is not part of the national collection.

[adb968008]

There's nothing to stop people from doing so should they wish.

 

This was a suggestion on the topic of coaches for the museum to produce.

 

I would expect a reduced five-car plastic version to aggregate not much more than £500 even with premium retail pricing.

 

The streamlined units have less detail complexity (and certainly livery complexity) than examples like the dynamometer car. Volume coach retail pricing seems to be in the range of £50 - £80 today. If brass models are freely available for £150 then this would not be a good idea. Having said that, I don't believe the Golden Age models are available new today and the second hand market is highly variable.

 

A more relevant observation, made earlier, is that the Coronation set is not part of the national collection.

I doubt the coaches would be possible at £50-80.

Not many livery possibilities, very limited time of operation...3 years.

I’d expect it’s interest level to be less than the Dynanometer car myself..the D car is but 1 vehicle, this is a whole set or nothing, people won’t buy the odd one, and eachcoach is different, requiring many toolings.

This set is as complicated as the APT, with more toolings/expense.

 

It’s a coach which when produced is unlikely to get much follow up interest in the future... people won’t buy 2-3 rakes.

 

For that reason I would put it at £150-200 per coach rtr, in the lower regions as the brass ones, so why stay plastic ?

 

A whole rake is expensive, Golden Age, have already produced this set rtr, painted/finished already, which means the wealthier part of the market that could support full size rake sales has already been satisfied, and unlikely to sell up for a cheaper plastic alternative... leaving only the a market for those who can’t afford the brass rake.. making a model to support a market that can’t afford it, whilst not having access to sell to a market that can, is hardly an attractive business risk on a whole rake of coaches.

Whilst rtr plastic manufacturers have chipped away at odd ones.. SR observation car and Dynanonmeter car.. there’s £00ks more risk to taking on an 9 car rake with many more toolings.

Edited July 20, 2018 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

I doubt the coaches would be possible at £50-80.

Not many livery possibilities, very limited time of operation...3 years.

I’d expect it’s interest level to be less than the Dynanometer car myself..the D car is but 1 vehicle, this is a whole set or nothing.

 

It’s a coach which when produced is unlikely to get much follow up interest in the future... people won’t buy 2-3 rakes.

 

For that reason I would put it at £150-200 per coach rtr, in the lower regions as the brass ones, so why stay plastic ?

 

Agree entirely.  Coaches produced to very high standards and high level of detail will inevitably be some way beyond the current market price for the better r-t-r coaches.  This will mean that it will probably be uneconomic to sell them as single vehicles hence they'll appear as sets or parts sets which will push the price even higher but is probably the only practicable way to recover development costs but that in turn will help to constrain the potential market.   So however much some people will happen to want particular coaches there are likely to be a lot more people who don't want them and that will shove up the price.

 

Whether it will be r-t-r plastic or metal depends as much as anything I think on who makes them and what sort of job they do and that too will influence the market.  But what is inevitable is that 'specials' in a more limited market and too a high standard will cost a lot more.

[Edwardian]

Still sat here thinking that NER Clerestory or Elliptical stock has more variations and more areas that could see use prototypically than the suggestions above, or the ECJs or GCR stock.

 

The original 1893 corridor 42' carriages with a RTR Jeanie Deans? That would be nice. But I suspect you have in mind the 1908 12-wheelers. Magnificent vehicles though few in number. However, the D9 diners would be generally useful. With the project to build a replica George the Fifth, there's the possibility of a tie-in. 

 

Though on thinking further, I'd rather see a 12"/ft set of carriages built to go with the George.

 

For models, something humdrum, numerous and widely-distributed would really be most useful. Numerically, the front runners have to be the LNWR D297 6-wheel third (827 built though a considerable number converted to brake thirds) and the L&Y D39 49' bogie third (808 built). The LNWR 6-wheelers had a much wider geographical distribution.

 

Frankly, I agree that general service stock - NER Clerestories and GW Toplights are two obvious examples that have been mentioned before - are the most useful.

 

That said, I have been told off before about mentioning stuff not relevant to the National Collections and what is assumed about its commissioning strategy, and I suspect that the prestige sets of named trains stock might be perceived as having the necessary star quality for sales.

 

While happily there has been overlap, there is still a difference between what I might consider useful for a layout and what will get a collector pre-ordering!

[locoholic]

If Kernow reckon they can make money on a RTR model of an obscure wagon , the PRA, of which only 14 were made (& which closely resemble an industrial waste skip, let's face it), surely it must be possible to make a profit on a couple of six-wheel coaches to run behind the Stirling Single?

[Steamport Southport]

If Kernow reckon they can make money on a RTR model of an obscure wagon , the PRA, of which only 14 were made (& which closely resemble an industrial waste skip, let's face it), surely it must be possible to make a profit on a couple of six-wheel coaches to run behind the Stirling Single?

 

Entirely different market.

 

BR Blue and later sells vastly more than any pre grouping locomotives or rolling stock I'm afraid.

 

How many limited edition Class 37s and 47s have Bachmann done recently? Dozens of them at 500 minimum each. Then add in the regular models and the other manufacturers. That's tens of thousands of model diesels a year. The market is there. If it wasn't then there wouldn't be endless new "modern" models appearing.

 

 

How many Stirling Singles do you think they will sell? Not many seeing as they cancelled one of the models due to a lack of interest.

 

 

 

Jason

[locoholic]

Entirely different market.

 

BR Blue and later sells vastly more than any pre grouping locomotives or rolling stock I'm afraid.

 

How many limited edition Class 37s and 47s have Bachmann done recently? Dozens of them at 500 minimum each. Then add in the regular models and the other manufacturers. That's tens of thousands of model diesels a year. The market is there. If it wasn't then there wouldn't be endless new "modern" models appearing.

 

 

How many Stirling Singles do you think they will sell? Not many seeing as they cancelled one of the models due to a lack of interest.

 

 

 

Jason

Bit of a Catch 22 situation, though. How many more Stirling Singles would they have sold if there had been some appropriate stock to put behind it?

 

German HO scale manufacturers have made sure that when they make an Epoch 1 loco, there is matching stock, so it is possible.

[RailwayRibaldry]

But there IS stock to haul behind your Stirling Single.

 

You just have to get off your arse and build it. 

 

Mike Trice has produced wonderful threads on the matter.

 

I can only assume all the bleaters who post here are Model Railway Collectors, not Railway Modellers.

 

Look what collectors and investors did 40 years ago to the classic car market - pushed the enthusiasts out.

 

I haven't built models for 50 years but I'm tackling a 6-wheeler, with frequent references to Mr Trice. It won't be to his standard but if it's to an acceptable standard (in my view) to lug along my still to be built basic track. Then, seeing as it would be silly to have just one 6-wheeler in tow I'll likely build another, hopefully to a better standard, then another. Might even tackle the unrealised Stirling 4-4-0. Then I'll need even more stock.

 

I've always wanted a Stirling Single and would have had to modify a Kitmaster had this beauty not come along. And I might still do that. 

 

No wonder model shops have all but gone, everyone wants instant gratification. Enjoy the journey I say

[stewartingram]

And to be absolutely accurate, you don't need anything for it to pull !

The model represents the real thing, as preserved today. Whilst latterly in the care of the NRM, it received the tender (found near Peterborough) which it is modelled with. Together, they have never been run - so have not hauled anything.

 

Prior to receiving the present tender, which is more representative of the loco when in commercial service, it had the lower sided tender (as per the Kitmaster model). This was the one it was ititially preserved with, many years ago, at the original York museum and later the new NRM. It was steamed occasionally in this very long period of preservation, but has long been out of ticket, I can think of 1938 (main line), Shildon and/or Rainhill celebrations (not sure which without looking it up), and some steaming on preserved lines as well. Upon being preserved, I believe it also had some modifications done to the loco to make it more "retro-looking", though I have no idea what. I believe some of these mods are technically inaccurate for the period of commercial use.

I'm not knocking anyone or anything in this, just offering an alternative view......and as I've said before on the subject of 4472, it is all part of the real history of the loco.

 

Stewart

 

ps - if it has never run in the condition it is modelled, maybe it should have been made without a motor?

[Clearwater]

Bit of a Catch 22 situation, though. How many more Stirling Singles would they have sold if there had been some appropriate stock to put behind it?

German HO scale manufacturers have made sure that when they make an Epoch 1 loco, there is matching stock, so it is possible.

I'd bet if not actually zero, then a number very close to zero, of extra sales would be made if there was appropriate rtr stock.

 

This is a "collectible", a "one-off" etc etc. I've brought one; so have many others. We don't "need" one- we've brought it because its a gorgeous model.

[locoholic]

But there IS stock to haul behind your Stirling Single.

 

You just have to get off your arse and build it. 

 

Mike Trice has produced wonderful threads on the matter.

 

I can only assume all the bleaters who post here are Model Railway Collectors, not Railway Modellers.

 

Look what collectors and investors did 40 years ago to the classic car market - pushed the enthusiasts out.

 

I haven't built models for 50 years but I'm tackling a 6-wheeler, with frequent references to Mr Trice. It won't be to his standard but if it's to an acceptable standard (in my view) to lug along my still to be built basic track. Then, seeing as it would be silly to have just one 6-wheeler in tow I'll likely build another, hopefully to a better standard, then another. Might even tackle the unrealised Stirling 4-4-0. Then I'll need even more stock.

 

I've always wanted a Stirling Single and would have had to modify a Kitmaster had this beauty not come along. And I might still do that. 

 

No wonder model shops have all but gone, everyone wants instant gratification. Enjoy the journey I say

Oh, not another one.

 

I assume you built your own computer so you could reply to my comment?

 

Anyone who says "You're not a modeller if you don't build your own _____" is basically a troll on this forum.

[locoholic]

I'd bet if not actually zero, then a number very close to zero, of extra sales would be made if there was appropriate rtr stock.

This is a "collectible", a "one-off" etc etc. I've brought one; so have many others. We don't "need" one- we've brought it because its a gorgeous model.

The coaches would be gorgeous too.

 

You think all those German modellers with their lovely Epoch 1 models of Bavarian State Railways are just a fluke of some bizarre foreign behaviour?

 

Us Brits would never indulge in such shocking practices as modelling whole trains of old-fashioned stock. The very thought...

[RailwayRibaldry]

No Locoholic, I'm not a modeller, I'm trying to be one, what are you trying to be?

[stewartingram]

Oh, not another one.

 

I assume you built your own computer so you could reply to my comment?

 

Anyone who says "You're not a modeller if you don't build your own _____" is basically a troll on this forum.

HeHe.....

I built my computer around 1995, but it is the proverbial hammer with replacement heads & handles, still good though!

But have you read my post above concerning what stock you can realistically pull (not)?  

 

Stewart

[RailwayRibaldry]

HeHe.....

I built my computer around 1995, but it is the proverbial hammer with replacement heads & handles, still good though!

But have you read my post above concerning what stock you can realistically pull (not)?  

 

Stewart

Fortunately, Stewart, absolute historical accuracy I leave to more learned gentlemen.  I was going to hack some teak carriages down to 5 compartments and put spoked wheels on them at one point. I'd have been quite happy running my mythical railway with No1 on loan from one Patrick Stirling. Then I saw Mike Trices build threads and pulled my socks up. Forgive this sinner, I'm just having a blast.

 

Just 'teaked' the sides of a Dimension3D 6-wheeler. A whole lot trickier than M Trice makes it look but that's experience I suppose. Last time I ran a model railway there were 3 rails and no plastic. I was as happy as a pig in.....whatever pigs like to be in. Wife thinks I'm crackers but she watches TV that does nothing for me while I sit at the table and play quietly, the odd tincture of scotch purely for relaxation Doctor.

[adb968008]

Bit of a Catch 22 situation, though. How many more Stirling Singles would they have sold if there had been some appropriate stock to put behind it?

German HO scale manufacturers have made sure that when they make an Epoch 1 loco, there is matching stock, so it is possible.

Perhaps that’s why those manufacturers are in the red , sold out, bankruptcy, and now in 2018 one world renown high street name has announced they are exciting the HO scale market after several decades ?

 

Given the saturation of more modern times coaches, to me the common sense coach isn’t an obscure future to be holiday home withdrawn between the wars, but coaches that managed to survive two wars and a BR number.

It narrows the choice, but it gives a vast variety of liveries.

 

My personal choice is looking down this page...

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bott_lane_halt/index.shtml

 

It’s an L&Y steam rail motor... but later in life the coaches were used as push pull for the L&Y 2-4-2ts.. and further down you’ll see one of the behind an 84xxx, so presumably a 41xxx would have been used too.

Were quite short of an LMS push pull coach, in BR, LMS, L& Y and you get an L&Y Rail-motor trailer (in case the urge for a Rail motor was there... after all an L&Y one made it into BR ownership! Just.

All out of one tooling and fills a rtr gap in LMS modellers interest for years..

Edited July 22, 2018 by adb968008

[RailwayRibaldry]

It's not easy being a troll. Hiding under a woodland bridge up the mountain, building computers all day, waiting for a Princess to pass by and kiss such an ogre to turn me into a competent railway modeler. In desperation started a Dimension3D 6-wheeler. Steep learning curve. Fun, though. Carriage side photo attached, teaked. Just thought I'd push the point that you can do more than you think and constructive criticism is welcome. Non-constructive criticism will be like water off a troll's back. We're thick in mind and skin you know. Who said there's nothing to haul behind a Stirling Single?