A Jubilee for the Jubilee?

[Chris Higgs]

This vice, brought to our attention by Jerry in another topic, seems identical to the one you have but is £30 cheaper. As I have to buy a vice for myself I wonder if I go wrong by choosing the one from Cooksongold and not the one sold by Shesto.

 

Wishing you all a Happy New Year,

 

Valentin

 

For very small parts like valve gear, I prefer to use a hand vice. I don't know where I got mine (sorry), but it holds the parts right up to their edge, and can be turned around to different angles more easily than a bench vice.

 

Chris 

[Ian Smith]

I have one of the Cooksongold vices, and find it almost the most tool in my armoury.  When I initially used it I did find that one side did not quite close up properly (literally a thou or so), I managed to fix the problem by loosening the jaw bolts and slipping a pieces of brass foil behind each bolt and tightening up the bolts again (I think that the cast part had a very slight bow in it behind the jaws).  I had originally looked at the same vice at Eileens but they wanted about £90 (compared to about £60) at Cooksongold - I don't believe that either of them are real Bergeon vices.

Ian

[Nig H]

 

 

 

Watching the video back brings it home just how tight the clearances are for many parts of the valve-gear. I have, however, managed to get away without needing to crank parts in and out in order to clear each other - something which is often necessary. It is testament to Nigel's excellent design work that everything has gone together so smoothly.

 

 

Hello Nick,

 

Thanks for the comment. This was the first loco chassis kit I designed, so I was 'finding my way with it' to some extent. I'm relieved that some/most of it worked out OK for you. I had no idea what some of the bits I tried to etch are on prototype locos, and things like the valve spindle guide were copied from Mike Raithby's 8F etch, I think. Concerning some of the bits you added, I can only include bits I see on the drawings I use and prototype photos, but I don't think I see as much as most people so I probably miss more parts off than other etchers. That's one of the reasons I like to consult yourself or the other eagled-eyed youngster, Simon G.

 

I've really enjoyed this series of videos, and I've been interested in seeing some of the techniques you've used. Concerning filing the rod connecting the union link and combination lever, I find it useful to turn the two parts so that one is on top of the other. If they are then held in that position while the rod is filed down to the washer, there is less risk of damaging the parts with a slip of the file. Do you think this has merit? It seems to work for me anyhow.

 

Nig H

[Lacathedrale]

Hi NIck,

 

I'm following your processes and patterns with a Jinty etch slowly but surely, and have a small question - you applied some thinned off-black to the chassis and wheels directly, where most advice I've seen is to use an etching primer/etc. when painting brass. I was wondering if you might be able to expand a bit on this?

 

Many thanks,

 

 

 

Hello Nick,

 

Thanks for the comment. This was the first loco chassis kit I designed,

 

Nig H

 

Hi Nigel, I hope this isn't too much of a digression, but of your kits available on the 2FS site for the larger locomotives, is there any gradient in accessibility/simplicity or order you would recommend for the Jubiliee/Scot/etc. ?

Edited January 4, 2019 by Lacathedrale

[Nig H]

Hi NIck,

 

I'm following your processes and patterns with a Jinty etch slowly but surely, and have a small question - you applied some thinned off-black to the chassis and wheels directly, where most advice I've seen is to use an etching primer/etc. when painting brass. I was wondering if you might be able to expand a bit on this?

 

Many thanks,

 

 

 

 

Hi Nigel, I hope this isn't too much of a digression, but of your kits available on the 2FS site for the larger locomotives, is there any gradient in accessibility/simplicity or order you would recommend for the Jubiliee/Scot/etc. ?

Hi,

 

Of the kits I do, I'd say the easiest is the chassis for the GEM L & Y saddle tank. Other chassis only/ conversion kits would come next, starting with the Fairburn tank, the Ivatt 2-6-0 and the WD 2-8-0. The next more-involved would be those with valve gear and complete chassis to be built, so that would be the Dapol Ivatt, then the Jubilees and the Royal Scot. I don't think there is a huge difference across the Jubilees and Royal Scot as the chassis and motion are similar and the tenders are Stanier 4,00 gallons versions. Maybe Simon Grand can comment on this. Of course, you could start at the other end of the scale with a Princess Coronation, then almost anything else will seem easy-peasy.

 

I think you need to bear in mind that most 2mm loco building will include some tricky steps, but once you've successfully coped with them, succeeding challenges become less daunting. It can help to have someone sat next to you showing some of the techniques you need to use. I was lucky as I had Mike Raithby guide me through building one of his 4F etches. I also remember when I first started 2mm loco building I'd have bad days where I'd go two steps forward and three steps back. That rarely happens now and many of the things I thought difficult have become much easier with practice. If you don't have a go at a kit then you'll stay with nothing, but if you do try something then you might end up with something that's so-so, but the next one will probably be better.

 

I hope I've answered your question but if not let me know and I'll try again.

 

Nig H

[queensquare]

Hi NIck,

 

I'm following your processes and patterns with a Jinty etch slowly but surely, and have a small question - you applied some thinned off-black to the chassis and wheels directly, where most advice I've seen is to use an etching primer/etc. when painting brass. I was wondering if you might be able to expand a bit on this?

 

Many thanks,

 

 

 

 

Hi Nigel, I hope this isn't too much of a digression, but of your kits available on the 2FS site for the larger locomotives, is there any gradient in accessibility/simplicity or order you would recommend for the Jubiliee/Scot/etc. ?

 

Im sure Nick and Nigel will get back to you but for my two-pennyworth..

 

I've built a number of Nigel's kits and they are excellent What they all have in common is good instructions and parts that fit as they should. In terms of complexity, they will follow the prototype - in other words the more complex the prototype, the more challenging the kit.

 

Regarding painting the wheels and chassis, its about the only area where I would differ from Nick's approach. Indeed, there is more than one technique Nick has described that I have nicked (see what I did there!) or adopted as they are better/easier than what I did.

 

I always spray my wheels and chassis before putting them together with an etch primer followed by the appropriate colour. I use coktail sticks to stop the axle/bearing holes and Maskol on the tyres. You could mask the crankpins as well but I find it just as easy to scrape the paint off after.

 

 

 

The pictures should make all clear. The chassis is a Chris Higgs 2251

 

Jerry

[2mm Andy]

Im sure Nick and Nigel will get back to you but for my two-pennyworth..

 

I've built a number of Nigel's kits and they are excellent What they all have in common is good instructions and parts that fit as they should. In terms of complexity, they will follow the prototype - in other words the more complex the prototype, the more challenging the kit.

 

Regarding painting the wheels and chassis, its about the only area where I would differ from Nick's approach. Indeed, there is more than one technique Nick has described that I have nicked (see what I did there!) or adopted as they are better/easier than what I did.

 

I always spray my wheels and chassis before putting them together with an etch primer followed by the appropriate colour. I use coktail sticks to stop the axle/bearing holes and Maskol on the tyres. You could mask the crankpins as well but I find it just as easy to scrape the paint off after.

 

 

The pictures should make all clear. The chassis is a Chris Higgs 2251

 

Jerry

 

+1 for Nigel's kits. I haven't plucked-up the courage to try the Princess Royal loco yet though!

 

I've found that masking the crankpins with short lengths of layout wire insulation is pretty quick to do, and saves quite a bit of fiddly scraping afterwards. I don't mask the treads or flanges of the wheels when I'm painting them - I mount them in the lathe (although any slow-speed drill would do just as well) when the paint has hardened and scrape the paint off the rims with a bit of scrap etch and emery paper or sanding sticks. This also has the effect of polishing the treads/flanges at the same time - 2mm loco wheels often have light machining marks on the rims as received from the shops. The rule is to go steady and not put too much force on the wheel when you're cleaning it (guess how I know!).

 

Andy

Edited January 4, 2019 by 2mm Andy

[Nick Mitchell]

Regarding my not priming the chassis/wheels - yes, this could be considered a failing.

BUT, on the frames at least, I don't want to do a final paint job at that stage, as there will be some scraping off to be done anyway when I solder on the brakes and any other bits of motion work or details that get added at a later stage.

For a part that isn't going to be handled, such as behind the wheels, I'm not too worried about the paint coming off in service, so don't bother with a primer.

 

Obviously, if you look at the latest episodes, you will see that there is quite a bit of touching up to do already in certain areas.

For painting metal bodywork, I do use an etching primer.

I probably should do so on the wheels as well.

 

 

The first of Nigel's kits I built was the chassis for the Dapol Ivatt tank. It is probably the easiest one with valve-gear.

I like tank engines, because the complication of the tender coupling (physical, electrical and drive-train) is absent.

I wrote it up in the 2mm Magazine nearly 10 years ago.

The Princess is an awesome kit, but definitely not one for the feint-hearted!

[CF MRC]

I tend to dunk everything in chemical blacking solution. Then paint as required after assembly.

 

Tim

[bécasse]

I tend to dunk everything in chemical blacking solution. Then paint as required after assembly.

 

 

Birchwood Casey do several metal blackeners including ones specifically labelled for brass and aluminium. In practice, they will all "blacken" most metals (except phosphor bronze and stainless steel) but with slightly different effects so experimentation is worthwhile. Some nickel silver resists the Super Blue but the version intended for aluminium will usually take on it.

 

I sometimes don't add paint at all after blackening - which does have the advantage that it can easily be "topped up" later using a brush if the blackening effect has worn off exposed edges.

[Nick Mitchell]

Part 33 deals with assembling the tender footplate, with its cosmetic outside frames.

It is a very nice feeling getting to the point of having used every component from the etched fret (well, nearly all of them!)...

 

Although the model is nowhere near "finished", the constructional aspect of the chassis now is, and we can finally get to see how it runs.

 

If all goes to plan, the next episode will conclude the series by tackling the necessary modifications to the PECO body in order to complete the conversion.

 

https://youtu.be/8V209RlLETY

[Valentin]

Part 6 is now here, where I build the worm shaft housing:

 

https://youtu.be/nNzteLwv02k

 

I think I'm in danger of re-defining "slow television" with this... remember YouTube allows you to play videos at a faster speed!

 

After watching this clip I ordered myself one of the parallel action flat nose pliers; I don't know how I could work without it until now - brilliant tool! Thanks, Nick.

[Nick Mitchell]

Well, the "kit construction" part of my Jubilee is finally complete, following the modifications to the PECO loco and tender bodies to make them fit Nigel's chassis - including adding weight to make it run.

In terms of running, I'm not sure if I made the best choice of motor - it seems very noisy, and it won't crawl without stalling. I'm sure DCC will cure the latter, but I might tempted to swap the motor for a Nigel Lawton one (or a larger can motor) at some point.

 

Obviously there's still a huge amount still to be done in terms of detailing and finishing... I'm wondering just how far to go with the cosmetic improvements. Having put in this much effort so far, I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and remove the dome and top feed which are too far forward for a straight throatplate boiler. Maybe I will be able to replace them with Black 5 castings.

Part of me is wondering if I should eventually paint it experimental green just to see how vile it would look... 45604 Ceylon is a candidate.

But that's all going to have to wait until later on in the year, as I need to make space on my workbench for 92008. The 9F has a hot date at Easter, and needs detailing and painting.

 

Video number 34 is still being edited, but in the mean-time, here's a photo of progress so far. The cab is wonky because it isn't glued back in place yet.

 

Has anybody else got any Jubilee progress to report?

 

[Valentin]

[...]

 

Has anybody else got any Jubilee progress to report?

 

I'd say these clips are not useful only for those who attempt to convert a "Jubilee" to 2mm FS, but for other modellers who are kit-building or scratch-building a split-frame chassis for any engine. Speaking for myself, I have learnt a lot from your video clips and I am currently applying the knowledge with my current work on a Class 04 chassis.

 

Again, many thanks for your efforts.

[Caley Jim]

Has anybody else got any Jubilee progress to report?

I'm planning a 'Jubilee', but not as you know it!

 

Jim

[Izzy]

In terms of running, I'm not sure if I made the best choice of motor - it seems very noisy, and it won't crawl without stalling. I'm sure DCC will cure the latter, but I might tempted to swap the motor for a Nigel Lawton one (or a larger can motor) at some point.

 

Is it a 2mmSA flat can? I have used a few and found they seem okay at first but develop play in the bearings in short order, and then become noisy and rough, especially at low rpm. I swopped out those in my 04 & 08 for those e-bay 12v coreless cans, which like the Farish ones seem able to absorb end thrust without issue while having good low end grunt. I believe Bachmann can supply spares, at a price.

 

Izzy

[Coal Tank]

Hi I've got this far but I will be ordering the wheels for the loco soon

John

[Nick Mitchell]

Is it a 2mmSA flat can? I have used a few and found they seem okay at first but develop play in the bearings in short order, and then become noisy and rough, especially at low rpm. I swopped out those in my 04 & 08 for those e-bay 12v coreless cans, which like the Farish ones seem able to absorb end thrust without issue while having good low end grunt. I believe Bachmann can supply spares, at a price.

 

Yes, it is a 2mmSA flat can. I chose it for the Jubilee mainly because it was in the Association range, to fit in with the nature of the project.

I have the same type in a couple of other engines - the ex-L&Y radial tank kit, for example, was designed around this motor.

I thought they were quite decent, but it is rather worrying now to think they may have a relatively short life.

 

I'll put some oil on the bearings and see how it goes...

[Nick Mitchell]

Well, here it is - the final part in my epic video series - bringing the total viewing time to a mind-numbing 10 hours 32 minutes.

 

I'd like to express my gratitude to all those who have made kind and encouraging remarks about these videos as they've emerged. The project has been a lot more work than I originally bargained for, but the assurance that people were finding them useful provided plenty of motivation to keep going.

 

Since finishing filming, oiling and a bit of running in has helped improve performance. I did discover, however that one of the driving axles had moved slightly out of quarter. Worryingly, it was much easier to re-adjust than has been my previous experience. So much for my love of tight-fitting muffs - it looks like I'm going to have to inject some runny superglue into these ones after all.

 

I will post some photos of the detailing and painting of the body as and when it happens - but I expect that won't be for several months.

 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Nick Mitchell

[Coal Tank]

Superb Nick

Lots of good information I'm looking forward to tha challenge

 

John

[65179]

"I'll just have to live in hope that one day my body will look as good as Nigel's"

 

What does one say? ;-)

 

Seriously though, thanks again Nick. A really useful series with quite a few ideas I'll be pinching. Can I ask what size and cut the file you used for tidying the body up was?

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

Edited January 27, 2019 by 65179

[Lacathedrale]

Bravo Nick, thank you for a wonderful journey and all of the hints and tips you've dropped as you've been doing it. The quality of workmanship, narration, etc. are certainly some of the highest I've ever seen - certainly, I would happily pay for further series and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[Winchat]

Nick

 

Thank you.

 

As one that has been technically challenged for most of their life your series has given me the confidence to go ahead and try for myself.

 

Particularly encouraging was showing how things can go wrong and how to overcome it.  Not like many other videos where nothing appears to go wrong.

 

Many thanks again Nick for such a great series.

 

Kind regards

 

Geoff

[queensquare]

Many thanks Nick for concluding what has been an excellent series. As usual the final episode included a really clever dodge which I shall be pinching - soldering a washer on the rear of a captive nut before gluing it in to a plastic body to prevent it being pulled out when tightening the fixing screw. Like all the best ideas, really simple but effective.

 

Jerry 

[Nick Mitchell]

Well, the promised several months have elapsed, and my thoughts have turned back to the Jubilee.

Over the last few days it has been a case of taking the body back so only the good bits remain.

Now I have the challenge of putting the details back again in the right places.

 

The model is going to be a short firebox (a.k.a. straight throatplate) example, as modified with steam dome and separate top-feed, and single smokebox saddle.

 

The first photo shows the body shorn of incorrectly positioned dome, topfeed, boiler bands and whistle.

Also removed for replacement are moulded on details: handrail and ejector/pipework, reversing reach rod.

I had to glue the cab back on as the footplate at the rear was in danger of snapping off...

 

 

I've already put the original chimney back on, having scraped the underside to thin the rather chunky flare and at the same time correct the subtle lean to the left it had. I've tried to get rid of the prominent join between the top and bottom halves of the chimney.

Also at the front end, I've been removing spurious rivets from the smokebox front ring, and the moulded on handrail and smokebox dart.

The buffer heads have been reshaped (they were almost hemispherical) and a replacement dome and topfeed are correctly positioned. These latter are association castings.

 

Something I don't think I will be able to tackle is the filled-in area under the smokebox door. It ought the be further recessed to the saddle, but I will have to live with it. Maybe a pile of ash under the smokebox door will be able to disguise it. 

 

 

The tender hasn't escaped attention, with all the rivet detail having gone.

I've made an attempt to thin the sides at the front and rear so the visible edges are a consistent, nearer to scale, width.

It looks horrendous on this very cruel photo, but I'm hoping once painted, the eye will be deceived.

 

 

Finally, I've started adding detail back.

The 5 washout plugs on the RHS of the firebox have been filled, and 6 new ones drilled to replace them. Two additional plugs have also been added low down on the firebox sides, with a further four on top of the boiler.

 

 

There is still a long list of things to do before I can think about painting it...