Fruit Vans

[Railways Forever]

Dapol and Wrenn both have converted Cattle Vans to Fruit Vans but after going through old pics and research I cannot find any info about the prototype or was this not for real

[bigboyboris]

Don Rowland's British Railways Wagons has a short section on both fruit vans and the similar-sounding but distinct banana van. It seems they were quite similar to ordinary ventilated vans (typically with a 9ft or 10ft wheelbase and 17ft 6in body) save for the provision of hinged shelves inside and additional side-mounted air scoops. 

[Dunsignalling]

Classified "Fruit A" to Diagram Y10, converted during WW2 from "Mex B" cattle wagons, Diagram W10 that had been built in the 1920s.

 

Unlike the usual run of Fruit vans with 10' wheelbase, these were 11' 6".

 

John

Edited May 14, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Fat Controller]

They were in use for seasonal traffic from the Channel Islands, via Weymouth, until the beginning of the 1970s. When not required for this traffic, they would be used for other traffic. In one of David Larkin's earlier albums (Pre-Nationalisation Freight Wagons on British Railways), published in 1977, there is a photo of one at Rochester in 1968. The vehicle carried the remains of a BOCM Traders' Label, suggesting it had worked on animal feedstuffs traffic.

What I am unsure of is how accurate the Dapol model is; photos of the model show vertically-planked doors and a single end vent, which are correct.

[Steamport Southport]

It was a case of finding work for wagons they had. Many of which were brand new. Especially since with the use of refrigeration and tinned meat there was less need for transporting vast amounts of livestock "on the hoof".

 

Quite a few of the LMS cattle wagons were used as ale wagons for traffic from Burton Upon Trent.

 

I take it we are talking about the converted vans rather than the ones built as fruit vans.

 

If you want a real Fruit Van then there's one on the SVR. Notice the similarities between the cattle wagons?

 

https://www.svrwiki.com/GWR_134290_Fruit_A_Van

 

 

 

Jason

[Guy Rixon]

Don Rowland's British Railways Wagons has a short section on both fruit vans and the similar-sounding but distinct banana van. It seems they were quite similar to ordinary ventilated vans (typically with a 9ft or 10ft wheelbase and 17ft 6in body) save for the provision of hinged shelves inside and additional side-mounted air scoops. 

 

Fruit and banana vans tended to be fitted vehicles. This is one reason why redundant livestock-vans were attractive as conversions. Of course, post-nationalisation, a "ordinary ventilated van" usually was a fitted vehicle.

 

In earlier times, a ventilated van was normally unfitted. At that point, a fruit van was typically built and operated as NPCS. For example, the SECR's vans for perishable traffic were basically PLVs with extra louvres, and the LSWR had similar vehicles.

 

The GWR built fruit vans with bodies based on contemporary goods vans but NPCS underframes: i.e. with coach-sized wheels, long springs and axleboxes rated for higher speeds. The Y2 vans of 1890 had roughly the same body as a V5 van (the V5s came out later, possibly informed by the Y2s), but with ventilation slots. The Y1 vans of 1905 had bodies like V4 vans, again with slots. Confusingly, these early vans were initially painted and numbered as goods stock. They became "brown vehicles", and hence renumbered as NPCS, at or around the grouping.

 

Later on, when fast, fitted freights were common and ordinary, fitted vans could maintain a decent speed, the GWR built "goods fruit vans". These dispensed with the NPCS fittings for the underframe. Goods fruit vans and fitted cattle-trucks (not loaded with cattle) are effectively interchangeable in a train formation.

 

BTW, there's a meme that the dedicated banana-vans were steam heated to ripen the fruit in transit. I understand that this is a myth. The steam heating was to avoid spoiling the fruit in transit when the outside temperatures were low, and was not needed in summer. Ripening was done in storage after the journey; e.g. the goods depot at Birmingham Moor Street had a ripening room for bananas.

[Nearholmer]

The LSWR converted old six-wheeler coaches into strawberry vans by simply fitting shelves in the compartments, and painting over the windows. I guess they ran with the drop lights part open.

 

It was the ability to run in a passenger train that was key.

 

Unrefrigerated/cooled fruit transport may still happen; certainly it did in the 1970s. I used to pick fruit and help with loading and unloading during summer holidays until c1975, and that went to London in a ‘canvas tilt’ lorry in the evening, through Covent Garden, out to the shops/markets, and on kitchen tables within about 15hrs. Speed and delicacy was the key with strawberries and currants (red, black and white), but gooseberries were more robust. What you got at Covent Garden was down to the delivered quality, with even things tiny like bits of grass in the punnets causing price to drop. Currants would overripen and start to burst after even a small amount of rain, and the rubbish ones went in big barrels to make ribena.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Nearholmer

[K14]

The vintage Carriage Trust list a number of surviving conversions:—

 

http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/wresults.asp

 

 

I believe the 813 Fund has acquired one for long-term restoration as a GW Cattle Wagon.

[Steamport Southport]

Yep. I think that's the type the Dapol one is based on.

 

http://www.hattons.co.uk/75020/Dapol_4F_015_007_Fruit_Mex_BR_B833359/StockDetail.aspx

 

 

 

Jason

[Railways Forever]

Thanks Guy's for all the info and as I live in Canada I truly thank you for taking the time to answer me

 

Derek

[The Johnster]

Thank you for the clarification on the subject of steam heating for banana vans and it's actual purpose, to avoid frost damage in winter (winters were much colder in those days and overnight frosts very common; global warming is real).  I can certainly recall Hall and later Hymek hauled banana trains from Barry Docks passing through Cardiff General with the steam on, and leaking from all over the place, but the effect enhanced by the cold air.

 

Banana vans from this circuit traffic were used as fitted heads on iron ore trains from Barry Docks to Corby and Scunthorpe after the sea traffic was lost to Avonmouth; IIRC (and I worked some of these trains, which seemed to specialise in Hymeks as least as far as Banbury for some reason), the steam pipes were still there but of course the heating bags had long vanished; this was in the 70s.  The iron ore wagons were 35mph restricted 9'wheelbase hoppers, unfitted, and the trains ran as class 8 specials.

[Steamport Southport]

Come on!

 

It's cold in the middle of summer here as well.   

 

Seriously though. Whilst looking for something else, I just found this page with some details on the fruit vans.

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock4.htm

 

 

 

Jason