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Rick-H

What are BRM playing at?

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Thanks for posting. The original offer email was sent to the RMweb email list. To qualify for your free issue of BRM you need to either have, or create an account on World-of-Railways. That will be why your email address and password aren't recognised.

 

If I have this correct then RMWeb has provided my data to a third party BRM. BRM has used that data to involve me in an unsolicited marketing campaign for which I have not given my explicit consent. I wonder what the data commissioner will have to say if they try this after 25 May.

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What I fail to understand, is why I have to register with World Of Railways in order to get a free download of BRM when my email details (and presumably my name and address) have been on the BRM database for years?

 

Maybe there is a genuine but 'commercial in confidence' reason for this; but being a cynic I do find it rather odd. 

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If I have this correct then RMWeb has provided my data to a third party BRM. BRM has used that data to involve me in an unsolicited marketing campaign for which I have not given my explicit consent. I wonder what the data commissioner will have to say if they try this after 25 May.

 

As is the usual manner of marketing, you probably ticked - or didn't tick - a box at some point meaning you gave your consent - knowingly or otherwise - for that sort of cross-marketing within the Warners group.  Having had a marketing background myself I can tell you it is very common, especially in small print and double negatives designed to confuse you (note that this is a general explanation, I have no idea what BRM may have done and when to get your consent for this.

 

It shouldn't be a big deal.  There should be a simple unsubscribe option at the bottom of most generic emails, simply respond to be removed and that should solve all your future problems.  

 

At least this would have been relevant marketing - rather than enhancing bodily parts, little tablets that enhance performance of bodily parts, Russian dating sites and all the other spam to which most of us are subjected on an annoyingly regular basis.

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I don’t know what the rules state but it seems perfectly reasonable that if you join a completely free forum the organisation that pays for the forum will send you advertising emails for that organisation from time to time. I would imagine this is somewhere in the sign up terms that we agree to but usually so t read. RMweb is Very clearly publicised as being an intergal part of BRM magazine.

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I've been trying to unsubscribe from the BRM/Warners emails, as I have with every GDPR offer recently.

 

My comment about the misuse of the word 'your' in the footer has been actioned, how do I know? Because I'm still getting the emails...

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I don’t know what the rules state but it seems perfectly reasonable that if you join a completely free forum the organisation that pays for the forum will send you advertising emails for that organisation from time to time. I would imagine this is somewhere in the sign up terms that we agree to but usually so t read. RMweb is Very clearly publicised as being an intergal part of BRM magazine.

 

http://www.warnersgroup.co.uk/about-warners-group/privacy-policy/ sections 4 and 5

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As is the usual manner of marketing, you probably ticked - or didn't tick - a box at some point meaning you gave your consent - knowingly or otherwise - for that sort of cross-marketing within the Warners group.  Having had a marketing background myself I can tell you it is very common, especially in small print and double negatives designed to confuse you (note that this is a general explanation, I have no idea what BRM may have done and when to get your consent for this.

 

It shouldn't be a big deal.  There should be a simple unsubscribe option at the bottom of most generic emails, simply respond to be removed and that should solve all your future problems.  

 

At least this would have been relevant marketing - rather than enhancing bodily parts, little tablets that enhance performance of bodily parts, Russian dating sites and all the other spam to which most of us are subjected on an annoyingly regular basis.

The GDPR requires my positive consent, it cannot because default.

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If I have this correct then RMWeb has provided my data to a third party BRM. BRM has used that data to involve me in an unsolicited marketing campaign for which I have not given my explicit consent.

I have already explained that World of Railways is a sister site as part of the same group.

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The GDPR requires my positive consent, it cannot because default.

 

 

It's not the 25th of May yet.

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If I have this correct then RMWeb has provided my data to a third party BRM. BRM has used that data to involve me in an unsolicited marketing campaign for which I have not given my explicit consent. I wonder what the data commissioner will have to say if they try this after 25 May.

They will probably say thanks for your report and we'll keep a note in case Warners become a major privacy threat, but we've got more important things to be tackling right now.

 

I doubt the Russians are using RMweb email lists to brainwash you into voting for [insert your choice of political leader/party here]. It should be clear by now that Warners/RMWeb are working on it. Let's keep some perspective on how important this issue actually is in the grand scheme of things and in relation to the hobby.

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They will probably say thanks for your report and we'll keep a note in case Warners become a major privacy threat, but we've got more important things to be tackling right now.

 

I doubt the Russians are using RMweb email lists to brainwash you into voting for [insert your choice of political leader/party here]. It should be clear by now that Warners/RMWeb are working on it. Let's keep some perspective on how important this issue actually is in the grand scheme of things and in relation to the hobby.

Personal privacy legislation has nothing whatever to do with the Russians.  It is there to stop parasitical commercial operations selling data which is not their's to sell.  I.e it is there to stop theft. 

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Personal privacy legislation has nothing whatever to do with the Russians.  It is there to stop parasitical commercial operations selling data which is not their's to sell.  I.e it is there to stop theft. 

GPDR is about far more than selling email lists. It is a fundamental change in the way data is handled to prevent a wide range of misuse to protect individuals throughout their life and provide control over their own privacy The misuse of personal data in its entirety (email lists being one tiny part of of colossal volumes of private data being held), as we've seen with Cambridge Analytica, is exactly the sort of issue it will tackle by putting control back in the hands of individuals. The sale of email lists is part of it, but as we are increasingly seeing, is not the most important. As I said, Warners' email list is unlikely to be anywhere near the ICO's priority list for the foreseeable.

 

There are considerable sums to be made from selling data, which is why there are already opt out regulations. If people have not opted out then, whether we like it or not, the data can in principle be sold. This is not theft.

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I don't think I'm actually surprised when I see people that are so violently opposed to receiving periodical emails from a publishing company whose facilities they use on a near daily basis but I do have a certain point of view. Is it really such a hardship? Even within this topic there are people who feel it's perfectly acceptable to pirate material; we put up with people saying that BRM isn't for them but unnecessary and barbed criticisms from those who aren't customers or contributors can go in the round file.

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I don't think I'm actually surprised when I see people that are so violently opposed to receiving periodical emails from a publishing company whose facilities they use on a near daily basis but I do have a certain point of view. Is it really such a hardship?

 

 

I have to agree,  I love the irony of those moaning about BRM and getting an email, and yet doing it on a free to use forum with loads of info, provided at great cost by the owners of BRM.

 

I've had to read up on GDPR and see how it affects how we operate as a society. Some are getting their knickers in a twist about it,  but it essentially isn't a bad piece of legislation. I don't see it as a big deal getting the monthly email from Warners (World of Railways) or anything else I'm interested in, the delete button isn't that difficult to use after all.

 

Personally I think that as from the 25th it will be "opt in' that you'd have to agree to be able to use RMweb as a member. . . . . . . .dons tin hat.. 

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GPDR is about far more than selling email lists. It is a fundamental change in the way data is handled to prevent a wide range of misuse to protect individuals throughout their life and provide control over their own privacy The misuse of personal data in its entirety (email lists being one tiny part of of colossal volumes of private data being held), as we've seen with Cambridge Analytica, is exactly the sort of issue it will tackle by putting control back in the hands of individuals. The sale of email lists is part of it, but as we are increasingly seeing, is not the most important. As I said, Warners' email list is unlikely to be anywhere near the ICO's priority list for the foreseeable.

 

There are considerable sums to be made from selling data, which is why there are already opt out regulations. If people have not opted out then, whether we like it or not, the data can in principle be sold. This is not theft.

I never mentioned email lists in my post and i'm fully aware of what GPDR is about.   The "Opt out" thing is being killed off by legislation precisely because many people don't neceessarilty realise what they are doing, especilaly when confronted with miles of legal small print deliberately designed to defraud them of their personal data and opt out options deliberately hidden as deeply as possible within control settings. The fact that the legislation is being changed is recognition of the fact that what was gojng on was theft and needed to be stopped. Many members on here will have been members long before BRM had anything to do with this site and may not have been paying attention when the change, and its consequences, happened .  I personally don't have a problem with emails from BRM but I can see why others might.   "I'm a small fish so the legislation doesn't apply to me" has never been a legally recognised defence.

Edited by asmay2002

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Personally I think that as from the 25th it will be "opt in' that you'd have to agree to be able to use RMweb as a member. . . . . . . .dons tin hat.. 

 

However tempting that may be it won't be a tied in precondition but we are looking at options for better facilities for those who are subscribers/paying customers.

 

The fact that the legislation is being changed is recognition of the fact that what was gojng on was theft and needed to be stopped.    ...

 

"I'm a small fish so the legislation doesn't apply to me" has never been a legally recognised defence.

 

Theft? Are you making an accusation there?

 

Nobody has said anything whatsoever (from the business) that we will not be complying with GDPR. It will be compliant and I have spent many hours looking over documentation, adapting the site software to work with it and by the 25th I will have provided a link to the updated company terms and for anyone who doesn't agree I can remove their data from the RMweb software.

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It might well be relevant to recall Military Modelling Magazine at this point. The mag has recently closed, taking its forum with it. There is an interesting discussion on a model boat website with more details

 

Basically, the magazine sales supported the website, but while the later was very active, the mag wasn't selling. The publisher decided to stop throwing money down the drain and both vanished. For good.

 

As Steve says, RMweb doesn't cover its costs - sales of BRM subsidise it. That's not to say you should feel guilty for using the forum but not buying the mag, RMweb is a useful part of the set-up BUT it is a more than a little annoying to have people posting ways to rip off (steal) the magazine content, or using the forum to hurl insults. We know that there are RMwebbers who would dearly love BRM to close. Not many, but they turn up regularly in relevant topics. If they got their way though, Andy isn't going to start running RMweb out of his own pocket and in his own time again. He'll need to get another job for a start. And you can be very sure they aren't going to do it themselves.

 

So, with RMweb gone, the members will head off to other forums until their admins get fed up with fighting fires for free. Eventually, everyone ends up on Facebook where there are already several groups running with varying degrees of success. And if you think Warners is a big, evil company, you'll get a real shock finding out what Facebook thinks of you.

 

So, Warners need to sell BRM to make money. Some of that money goes to keeping RMweb going, and Andy and me in a job - obviously we think this is a good thing (and yes, we know there are people out there who don't) but without RMweb eating funds, we could have a pay rise. (listens to the sound of Steve laughing).

 

We also get these e-mails (did you think we were immune?) and simply click delete and they go away. It's even possible to set up a mail rule to do this automatically. The process takes considerably less time than coming on here and posting how terrible it is that the publishing company Warners should be trying to sell magazines.  I'd also imaging it's considerably quicker than making the same moans to Tesco, Costa, Virgin media and everyone else who sends out junk e-mails - you ARE complaining with the same ferocity to them as well aren't you?

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Though I've been a forum member for a long time I don't get any emails from BRM. I'm not sure why some do, and some like me don't. I am a little more charitably minded towards those who get but would rather not than some of the commentators here. On a day to day basis weeding out unwanted e-mails (I get them, just not from BRM) isn't a big issue but if I go away for a week or more I'm faced with huge numbers to fillet before I can deal with any important correspondence. However the burden is lessening as I systematically (actually more like haphazardly) un-subscribe  from those I don't want. I would be surprised if BRM e-mails don't have an un-subscribe option to click on.

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Good Christ....another thread descending into overly paranoid bo*l**ks.

People need to lighten up, there are far more important things in life to be concerned with. I pity RMWEB mods these days, I bet you all have a mini brick wall on your desks to bang your heads against.

Edited by blueeighties
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I would be surprised if BRM e-mails don't have an un-subscribe option to click on.

 

They always have had Neil but it doesn't stop some spending infinitely longer grumbling about it on here than having some initiative to resolve it for themselves.

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 I bet you all have a mini brick wall on your desks to bang your heads against.

 

I have to rebuild mine every day. ;)

 

I might start replacing an avatar a day.

 

wzjecyTq.png

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In the last week on my main email address I have received 250 odd "promotional emails" including one I actually opened from the mighty Tesco :)

 

Its really not that much of a problem to mass delete them every now and then; its almost fun in a way!

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I have to rebuild mine every day. ;)

 

I might start replacing an avatar a day.

 

wzjecyTq.png

Lol....I have the builders in soon, I'll see if they can do you a discounted rate on a few wee walls;-)

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I got the same offer by email but decided not to take it up as BRM isn’t really to my taste. Must say I feel a little guilty about enjoying free use of the forum knowing that it is extremely unlikely that I will ever take out a subscription to BRM. I am grateful to Warners for providing this forum.

Just to try to cheer up those in charge of this great forum let me say that I do enjoy and buy Garden Rail.

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