Danemouth - a Seaside BLT

[DCB]

I think the goods shed is likely to get in the way where ever it goes. the goods shed is the dominant building at many GWR branch stations as the line goes through the goods shed which is large enough to house the crane.

 

Visually the Goods shed would fit well against the fiddle yard scene break but would be a nightmare to shunt.  See my post   "How do I shunt the Goods Shed"  posted yesterday in skills section. 

 

Generally "The Bay" was a side and end loading dock rather than an actual departure platform.

 

Those are some big locos for a branch, 2251s were not West Country branch locos except where there were turntables (Minehead?)  None were allocated west of Exeter in later years, and I think Bristol was the furthest west Dukedogs were allocated after the failed attempt to foist some on NA as main line pilots to replace Manors.

Edited May 24, 2018 by DavidCBroad

[Danemouth]

Many thanks to you all - I am currently working my way through them with Anyrail. The goods shed I am proposing to use is the one shown in the bottom left of this picture taken when planning the previous incarnation of Danemouth.

 

 

I did contemplate the Metcalfe kit but it looks nothing like a GWR shed to me.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Edited May 24, 2018 by Danemouth

[jazzer]

Many thanks to you all - I am currently working my way through them with Anyrail. The goods shed I am proposing to use is the one shown in the bottom left of this picture taken when planning the previous incarnation of Danemouth.

 

DSC14299.jpg

 

I did contemplate the Metcalfe kit but it looks nothing like a GWR shed to me.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

Looks ok from here. The goods shed looks ok where it is ( assume you extend the track down to it of course! ) . As I said before there is a limit to what can be achieved when there is only 2ft of width to play with. I would go for the track plan as it is. All I would add is that in the picture the points for the run round loop seem a bit far back (difficult to tell from photo) but as it seems to be a branch operated mainly by tank locos you only need about 8/9 inches beyond the point so as to avoid the need o set the train back to clear the points before you run round. It doesn't matter if the tender locos don't clear the points, it gives you an excuse to have a pilot to remove the train. That's exactly what used to happen at Swanage, when trains from Waterloo arrived behind a Buleid Pacific they had to send a pilot down to remove the train.

 

Anyway, it's your train set and looking good so go for it.

Edited May 24, 2018 by jazzer

[danstercivicman]

Looks good

[Danemouth]

Looks ok from here. The goods shed looks ok where it is ( assume you extend the track down to it of course! ) . As I said before there is a limit to what can be achieved when there is only 2ft of width to play with. I would go for the track plan as it is. All I would add is that in the picture the points for the run round loop seem a bit far back (difficult to tell from photo) but as it seems to be a branch operated mainly by tank locos you only need about 8/9 inches beyond the point so as to avoid the need o set the train back to clear the points before you run round. It doesn't matter if the tender locos don't clear the points, it gives you an excuse to have a pilot to remove the train. That's exactly what used to happen at Swanage, when trains from Waterloo arrived behind a Buleid Pacific they had to send a pilot down to remove the train.

 

Anyway, it's your train set and looking good so go for it.

 

The picture shows a previous incarnation of Danemouth and was posted only to illustrate the goods shed which is being transferred to the new version of Danemouth where the scenic area is about 2 feet shorter.

 

Still playing with Anyrail and paper templates to find something I am totally happy with,

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Danemouth]

First of all can I thank all of you who commented on the earlier plan. I found all of the suggestions helpful and have incorporated many of them into the plans - yes plans - there are two, though my preference is for the second. Some general points first if I may:

 

• The ruler across the board in some pictures is the scenic break; the fiddleyard has four roads two of which will take two autocoaches and a large loco.
• The bay platform will take two autocoaches and a small prairie.
• The main platform will take three coaches between the throat and run around points - I do like a bit of platform behind the train when it is in the platform.
• I have removed the trap point in the bay and added a siding - this would have contained a long demolished loco shed.
• Following on from Brian's suggestion the headshunt goes through the scenic break bridge to give the impression of being longer than it is.
• The track used in the photos is some of the old Code 75 for the previous version - this will all be scrapped in favour of Bullhead track (except the fiddleyard). So the sidings will be a little longer than those shown on the photos.

In the first plan the is a three way point in the station throat and the Goods shed is on the right of the layout

 

 

 

 

 

In my preferred plan the station throat is a more prototypical pair of points and the goods shed is in a kickback siding. A  little research today has shown that Oxford Rail are planning to release a GWR  Goods Shed which I prefer to the one I already have - the OR shed would not fit in the space in the first plan.

 

 

 

 

I am still open to suggestions but will be going to Lord & Butler to buy the track early next week.

 

Thanks again,

 

Dave

[Harlequin]

Hi Dave,

 

To my eye the line into the bay in plan 1 is jarring because of the extra turn between the crossover points and to a lesser degree the same with the slight extra turn after the points into the bottom goods siding in plan 2. You might be able to use a long Y to smooth that out but they are not yet available in Peco bullhead track - only Large radius Left and Right. I believe the bullhead double-slip is coming but not released yet.

 

Why not turn the headshunt away from the fiddle yard as soon as it's through the scenic break, so that it can be longer and make shunting the goods yard a bit easier?

 

In plan 2 the goods shed stands right in front of the signal box, which might make some viewpoints annoying. If you could send the goods shed line through the scenic break somehow (it would have to be disguised or the scenic break would have to be arranged to make sense of that) you could push the goods shed to the left. (And as has been pointed out before, a goods shed on a kickback is quite unusual.)

 

There seems to be space behind the station building that you'll never really see - it's not "earning it's keep" IMO and it's restricting the space available between the goods sidings. (It's great to have some space around buildings if you can but on an 8ft by 2ft plan that's a very expensive luxury.)

 

Both plans are very linear - you don't yet have the interesting curves you talked about earlier.

 

Can I urge you to take your time over the design and really think it through before you commit to anything - otherwise there's a good chance you'll end up ripping up number 5 and thinking about number 6 in a few month's time!

[NHY 581]

Evening Dave.

 

I think plan B......but I'm still not convinced about the siding occupied by the goods shed. It jars a little. I would do away with that and place it on the head shunt, right up against the backscene. It would mask the siding running into the fiddle yard.

 

Failing that, what about a smaller goods shed opposite the station?

 

 

Rob.

[The Stationmaster]

Definitely Plan B - I don't like that 3-way point in that position, looks 'too busy'.

 

Now the goods shed - I agree with Rob as it doesn't look right to me either as it stands.  Is there any mileage in curving the headshunt and goods shed siding away from the running line and having a slightly longer siding through the goods shed?

[Harlequin]

I wondered about trying to get a curve into the track plan to add a bit of interest and came up with this:

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully I've maintained all the critical lengths.

All points in the scenic area are Streamline Large Radius so trackwork can be all Bullhead apart from the double slip, that we're all waiting for.

I've been deliberately vague about some of the details but I think they could be sorted out without invalidating the basic idea.

One nice aspect of this design is that if you imagine a big round coastal hill behind the station that would neatly explain why the station had to be curved to fit into the landscape.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Harlequin

[Danemouth]

I wondered about trying to get a curve into the track plan to add a bit of interest and came up with this:

Danemouth5 2.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully I've maintained all the critical lengths.

All points in the scenic area are Streamline Large Radius so trackwork can be all Bullhead apart from the double slip, that we're all waiting for.

I've been deliberately vague about some of the details but I think they could be sorted out without invalidating the basic idea.

One nice aspect of this design is that if you imagine a big round coastal hill behind the station that would neatly explain why the station had to be curved to fit into the landscape.

 

Thank you all for the comments - I hope to have an afternoon in the garage seeing what I can do.

 

In my Anyrail plans all the points are medium - I would prefer to use the large radius BH ones but they take too much room.

 

Phil, can I ask what software you used to draw the plan please?

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Harlequin]

Thank you all for the comments - I hope to have an afternoon in the garage seeing what I can do.

 

In my Anyrail plans all the points are medium - I would prefer to use the large radius BH ones but they take too much room.

 

Phil, can I ask what software you used to draw the plan please?

 

Regards,

 

Dave

I'm using a drawing program, Xara Designer, but you'd be able to do the same in most drawing programs like Illustrator, Affinity Designer or Corel Draw. (I work for Xara so I'm biased!)

 

There's a thread in Layout and Track design that explains a bit more and has some downloadable resources if you're interested: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/126780-layout-design-in-illustration-software/

 

My drawing is to scale with very accurate templates for the points so I think you could use large radius if you want.

[danstercivicman]

I wondered about trying to get a curve into the track plan to add a bit of interest and came up with this:

Danemouth5 2.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully I've maintained all the critical lengths.

All points in the scenic area are Streamline Large Radius so trackwork can be all Bullhead apart from the double slip, that we're all waiting for.

I've been deliberately vague about some of the details but I think they could be sorted out without invalidating the basic idea.

One nice aspect of this design is that if you imagine a big round coastal hill behind the station that would neatly explain why the station had to be curved to fit into the landscape.

 

Very Nice!

[NHY 581]

I wondered about trying to get a curve into the track plan to add a bit of interest and came up with this:

Danemouth5 2.png

[Click to enlarge]

 

Hopefully I've maintained all the critical lengths.

All points in the scenic area are Streamline Large Radius so trackwork can be all Bullhead apart from the double slip, that we're all waiting for.

I've been deliberately vague about some of the details but I think they could be sorted out without invalidating the basic idea.

One nice aspect of this design is that if you imagine a big round coastal hill behind the station that would neatly explain why the station had to be curved to fit into the landscape.

 

Spot on. Think Kingsbridge.

 

Rob.

[88C]

Hi Danemouth, you are doing the right thing in carefully thinking about your track plan. I do agree with Harlequin that introducing curves improves the look of a layout. If you have the stock, try placing it on your plan to see how it fits.

 

I look forward to seeing how you get on.

 

Brian

[Ray H]

Dave

 

Could you replace the right hand point that is the first after leaving the fiddle yard with a left hand point but everything to the right thereof is unchanged? This would allow you to angle the fiddle yard into the corner and may give you room to extend the sidings (very) slightly. At the same time, can you curve the yard headshunt towards the front of the layout with the signal box between the single line and the headshunt? You might then be able to extend the scenic area slightly and, depending on how often you plan to change stock around in the fiddle yard you might even be able to have a small factory/creamery etc. at the end of the headshunt. 

[Danemouth]

I am sure many of you will remember the fairy tale Cinderella whether as children or reading it to your children/grandchildren - I was thinking of the bit towards the end when Cinderella tries on the glass slipper and they all proclaim "It Fits!. I had such a moment laying out Phil's (Harlequin) plan in post 35.

 

Here it is in Anyrail together with three shots - please note the Signal Box is in the wrong place - I forgot  to reposition it before taking the photos

 

The track is some old stuff and the platform is from the previous incarnation - they will be binned shortly.

 

 

 

 

 

The points in the scenic section are the new large bullhead ones, though the double slip will be the FB one as we still await the BH version. I will use the matching fishplates. The downside of switching to BH points from FB medium points is that it will cost me and additional ~£90 :)

 

With a little jiggling the platform should take three coaches - just! However I intend to follow the lead of several BLT modellers here and limit myself to two coach trains occasionally with a Siphon/GUV attached.

 

So once again a special thanks to you all, I will happily accept further ideas but to intend to get the track on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[NHY 581]

This really looks the part Dave.

 

Whilst you're getting the track, you may as well get a couple of Adams Radials and a few Maunsells.....

 

 

Rob.

[danstercivicman]

Looks great a much better flow

[sjrixon]

Yes, yes and yes. Slightly wish my head shunt went through the scenenic break, that's a smart idea.

[Danemouth]

This really looks the part Dave.

 

Whilst you're getting the track, you may as well get a couple of Adams Radials and a few Maunsells.....

 

 

Rob.

 

Southern Railway from a Cardiff Boy! - wash your mouth out with carbolic soap immediately :yes: :)

 

My grandfather was a signalman in the big GWR box on the docks and lived in Railway Street which when I was knee high to a grasshopper was still a busy yard.

 

So naturally I have a preference for BR(W) - that's what I remember - so Danemouth will be mainly ruled with Panniers, Prairies, B Sets, Autocoaches and various other bits of GWR origin.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Harlequin]

I am sure many of you will remember the fairy tale Cinderella whether as children or reading it to your children/grandchildren - I was thinking of the bit towards the end when Cinderella tries on the glass slipper and they all proclaim "It Fits!. I had such a moment laying out Phil's (Harlequin) plan in post 35.

 

Here it is in Anyrail together with three shots - please note the Signal Box is in the wrong place - I forgot  to reposition it before taking the photos

 

The track is some old stuff and the platform is from the previous incarnation - they will be binned shortly.

 

Danemouth Mk 5 v3.jpg

 

DSC16569.jpg

 

DSC16571.jpg

 

DSC16572.jpg

 

The points in the scenic section are the new large bullhead ones, though the double slip will be the FB one as we still await the BH version. I will use the matching fishplates. The downside of switching to BH points from FB medium points is that it will cost me and additional ~£90 :)

 

With a little jiggling the platform should take three coaches - just! However I intend to follow the lead of several BLT modellers here and limit myself to two coach trains occasionally with a Siphon/GUV attached.

 

So once again a special thanks to you all, I will happily accept further ideas but to intend to get the track on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Dave

 

That's Wonderful!

 

I hope it continues to work out for you when you get into the nitty gritty. If you hit problems with the track plan feel free to contact me - I might be able to help. For instance, in my drawing the Bay platform is at 12 degrees from the incoming lines (the standard Peco Streamline turnout angle) but the end of the main platform is at 10 degrees to make things fit better and to add a bit of character as the platform widens out along it's length. I can send you a PDF if that would be useful.

 

Actually, I've had a few further ideas and I've placed your existing station building and your proposed new goods shed on my drawing (in a different position). Is it OK to post an updated drawing here?

Edited May 27, 2018 by Harlequin

[Danemouth]

That's Wonderful!

 

I hope it continues to work out for you when you get into the nitty gritty and if you hit problems with the track plan feel free to contact me - I might be able to help.

 

I've had a few further ideas and I've placed your existing station building and your proposed new goods shed on my drawing (in a different position). Is it OK to post an updated drawing here?

Phil,

 

Yes, please do I am most grateful for all your help,

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Harlequin]

Thanks Dave,

 

Here's an update, then:

[Click to enlarge]

 

These are just my ideas of how things could work:

• I've shown the platform(s) more clearly.
• Best estimate of the size and layout of the Bachmann station buildings, showing how they might fit into the space.
• Best estimate of the Oxford Rail Goods shed showing how it might fit on, helping to block the view of the tricky back corner while allowing the station buildings to be seen.
• End loading at the end of the run round loop.
• The station buildings, goods shed, end loading and short peninsular goods platform make a neat little complex - the "business end" of the station.
• Curved backscene inserts so you don't see a corner in the sky.
• Suggested optional extension of the goods shed line through the backscene to allow wagons to be pushed through the goods shed. Tree disguises exit through backscene. (It would be very easy to build but is it a step too far? If so, you just have to pretend that you can push wagons and vans fully through the shed...)
• Suggested small extension to scenic area above fiddle yard, something like Ray H suggested, so that the scenic break doesn't take up valuable space. Fixed to middle baseboard. This helps give the bridge/tunnel some depth so that the fiddle yard is hidden better when looking at the scenic area.
• Angled road overbridge for more natural scenic break and to improve viewing.
• Shortened the bottom goods siding and the headshunt to match the fiddle yard capacity.

 

Edit: P.S. You should be able to fit three coaches comfortably on the main platform, looking at the 1ft grid squares.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Harlequin

[St Enodoc]

I am sure many of you will remember the fairy tale Cinderella whether as children or reading it to your children/grandchildren - I was thinking of the bit towards the end when Cinderella tries on the glass slipper and they all proclaim "It Fits!. I had such a moment laying out Phil's (Harlequin) plan in post 35.

 

Here it is in Anyrail together with three shots - please note the Signal Box is in the wrong place - I forgot  to reposition it before taking the photos

 

The track is some old stuff and the platform is from the previous incarnation - they will be binned shortly.

 

Danemouth Mk 5 v3.jpg

 

DSC16569.jpg

 

DSC16571.jpg

 

DSC16572.jpg

 

The points in the scenic section are the new large bullhead ones, though the double slip will be the FB one as we still await the BH version. I will use the matching fishplates. The downside of switching to BH points from FB medium points is that it will cost me and additional ~£90 :)

 

With a little jiggling the platform should take three coaches - just! However I intend to follow the lead of several BLT modellers here and limit myself to two coach trains occasionally with a Siphon/GUV attached.

 

So once again a special thanks to you all, I will happily accept further ideas but to intend to get the track on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

Dave

Just catching up on your new thread, Dave, and I have to say that as always spending time making changes on paper before rushing off to do things physically seems to be paying off.

 

Is anyone else round here old enough to detect shades of the Bossington Branch here?

 

Oh, and given the support you've been getting perhaps the station should be Danemouth (Harlequin Road)...