Middlemark

[Darius43]

A friend and I are in the process of building a layout in a shed in his back garden. Having first built the shed we are now in the process of baseboard construction.

 

The proposed layout is on two levels - the lower level being for storage and the upper being the scenic level. The two levels are to be linked by a helix.

 

Preliminary plans were made using Sketchup - as construction proceeds new ideas arise and so these plans may not transfer to the finished layout. They do give a flavour of what is planned however.

 

The shed is approximately 30 feet long by 10 feet wide.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited October 31, 2020 by Darius43

[Darius43]

Preliminary sketches:-

 

Storage level

 

 

 

 

Scenic level

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

Lower level under construction

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Mike Storey]

Shed?? That's more like a warehouse. Lucky so and so!

 

Plan looks very interesting but what scale is it going to be please? (I assume 4mm but wanted to check).

 

One issue you may want to consider, given the board holding the Helix is 4ft 6 ins wide (and it is in the corner), is how you will deal with any derailment, which is the most probable place you will have them, given the tight curves and gradient, on the Helix - how will you reach it? You may want to consider whether you can fit a hole in the baseboard and access to it (i.e. no legs or bracing in the way) large enough for a human bean to reach up inside it, or have you already thought of that?

 

Similarly, again due to the apparent width of your longitudinal boards, have you thought about how you will access the station area and the freight sidings on the other side, across the higher level main line, without causing damage when you lean across?

 

Looking forward to more instalments!

 

 

EDIT - I wrote this before you posted the pics, and I see you have provided for access inside the helix!

Edited May 19, 2018 by Mike Storey

[Darius43]

Trial installation of the helix. This was purchased from a friend who was upscaling to O gauge from OO - I should have stated that our layout is OO gauge.

 

The original helix used nylon threaded rods and nuts to clamp the risers in place and was a nightmare to disassemble - each nut had to be removed by hand. These have been replaced with 4mm dia. steel rods an Mecanno collars locked into place using grub screws. Two revolutions trial assembled to test the system.

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

Return end of storage level:-

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

To cope with any lack of pulling power the “up” line of the helix is being fitted with DCC Concepts Powerbase. Easier to fit now rather than later. The “centipede” plates are trimmed to size and glued to the helix segments using pva.

 

 

The completed segments are stacked and weighted down while the glue sets. I used paper separators to make sure I don’t end up with a single glued stack!!!

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

Shed?? That's more like a warehouse. Lucky so and so!

 

Plan looks very interesting but what scale is it going to be please? (I assume 4mm but wanted to check).

 

One issue you may want to consider, given the board holding the Helix is 4ft 6 ins wide (and it is in the corner), is how you will deal with any derailment, which is the most probable place you will have them, given the tight curves and gradient, on the Helix - how will you reach it? You may want to consider whether you can fit a hole in the baseboard and access to it (i.e. no legs or bracing in the way) large enough for a human bean to reach up inside it, or have you already thought of that?

 

Similarly, again due to the apparent width of your longitudinal boards, have you thought about how you will access the station area and the freight sidings on the other side, across the higher level main line, without causing damage when you lean across?

 

Looking forward to more instalments!

 

 

EDIT - I wrote this before you posted the pics, and I see you have provided for access inside the helix!

Hi Mike,

 

We are planning to maximise access to cope with derailments hence the central hole in the helix. We have a wheeled access trolley so that we (I) can get in there “Great Escape” style.

 

Yes it’s 4mm scale and DCC using the Roco Z21 system. Given the size of things we will need a booster or two!!!

 

The station area is being re-planned and will not be like the sketch. The station will now be on the upper of the two scenic levels with the lower diving under. This area is still “fluid” design-wise but this is our current thinking.

 

The plan is to get the lower level up and working with the track on the helix tested for each revolution before proceeding with the next.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited May 20, 2018 by Darius43

[jonny777]

Can I just say....  Wow! 

 

That looks great. I wish I had that kind of space. 

[7APT7]

Hi Darius

 

Progress is looking great and what a track plan you have, look forward to seeing more progress to completion.

 

Regards

Jamie

[Darius43]

Track laying starts - first the lower revolution of the helix and the helix approach.

 

 

 

Powerbase applied to the inside “up” track - just in case...

 

Tested with the Rapido APT-E which can manage the gradient but has too much of an overhang on the curves and thus will hit the helix support posts. The Bachmann GN Atlantic managed it ok, however.

 

Next test will be with the HST.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[rdr]

you could move the outer supports out and add small support plates fixed to the helix plates

[Darius43]

you could move the outer supports out and add small support plates fixed to the helix plates

Possibly, but the helix plates are plywood and so a lot of new bracketry would be required to be fixed to the plates in a way that does not obstruct the track/trains whilst being strong enough to carry the dead weight, plus the baseboard “hard points” would need to be moved. This is not going to happen.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Mike Storey]

Are you thus announcing the imminent sale of a Rapido APT???

[Darius43]

Are you thus announcing the imminent sale of a Rapido APT???

Alas no.

[Darius43]

Track laying continues on the storage level.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Mike Storey]

Harry and Meghan Special!!??

 

I see you have opted for chipboard for your track base / baseboard, which I used all the time (cos it was cheap, thick and easy to work with, much like me), until loads of people (and on here) told me it was WRONG. Good to see. Are you going to seal it, or are you relying on extra bracing?

[7APT7]

Hi

 

Nice progress, the Helix will look good once its competed..., How many layers are you raising the Helix up by... and in mm...?

 

Regards

Jamie

[Darius43]

Harry and Meghan Special!!??

 

I see you have opted for chipboard for your track base / baseboard, which I used all the time (cos it was cheap, thick and easy to work with, much like me), until loads of people (and on here) told me it was WRONG. Good to see. Are you going to seal it, or are you relying on extra bracing?

Hi Mike,

 

We are relying on the frame bracing, which is fairly robust.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[Darius43]

Hi

 

Nice progress, the Helix will look good once its competed..., How many layers are you raising the Helix up by... and in mm...?

 

Regards

Jamie

Hi Jamie,

 

The helix has six complete revolutions and rises about 600mm.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

[7APT7]

Hi Darius

 

Wow that's a good rise to it, it will look good once its is all completed. look forward to seeing the day when you have full rake climbing it, whether coach or freight.

 

Regards to the Helix, what do you use as the spacers between the heights of each riser to hold the next level up (looks like some kind of tubing, is that a B&Q visit lol)...? and what is the clearance height, taking in to account when a Pantograph is up etc....?

 

I find the Helix fascinating to watch it being made... it look great so far...

 

Regards

Jamie

[7APT7]

Hi

 

Regarding the Helix, do the Rods that are up right and used to raise the Helix, is that a screw threaded rods...? with some kind of slightly wider tubing that you use to raise the track bed so to speak...?

 

Regards

Jamie

[Darius43]

Hi Darius

 

Wow that's a good rise to it, it will look good once its is all completed. look forward to seeing the day when you have full rake climbing it, whether coach or freight.

 

Regards to the Helix, what do you use as the spacers between the heights of each riser to hold the next level up (looks like some kind of tubing, is that a B&Q visit lol)...? and what is the clearance height, taking in to account when a Pantograph is up etc....?

 

I find the Helix fascinating to watch it being made... it look great so far...

 

Regards

Jamie

 

 

Hi

 

Regarding the Helix, do the Rods that are up right and used to raise the Helix, is that a screw threaded rods...? with some kind of slightly wider tubing that you use to raise the track bed so to speak...?

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Hi Jamie,

 

I obtained the helix second hand and fully assembled from a friend who has upscaled to O gauge.  As obtained it comprised plywood boards cut to shape, threaded nylon rod, nylon nuts and aluminium tube spacers with a 3mm wall thickness.  Dismantling the assembly was a nightmare as each board joint comprised two nylon nuts that had to be undone up 600mm of theaded nylon rod.  These nuts are not free spinning and there are nine joints per revolution.  By the time the lot was dismantled I and my aching fingers were not very enamoured of the nylon nuts and rods.  This is a proprietary helix assembly that my friend purchased and so was not home made.

 

The replacement for the nylon nuts and rods comprises 4mm diameter smooth (i.e. not threaded) steel rods (from Wickes) and Mecanno locking collars (from eBay).  Everything now drops into place and is locked in position using grub screws - much faster and easier on the fingers!!!

 

The thick-walled aluminium tube spacers are part of the original proprietary helix system and are sized to "launch" the helix form a flat base and then keep each revolution a fixed vertical distance apart.  I will measure what this is next time I am in the shed

 

Cheers

 

Darius

Edited May 30, 2018 by Darius43

[DCB]

I'm not sure this has been thought through sufficiently. 
 

The concept is flawed. STOP

 

 

You run trains to the top level. and then what?   There is no way back without an awkward crane shunt.   It doesn't work.    If like us you had a terminus on the highest level great but you don't  We would love a return loop at the hidden level but lack room (24X8 in 00)   Just stop work and work out where the trains go.

 

Either put a terminus on the top level or redesign for a spiral up and another back down so trains can run without reversing at the top level.  But ultimately STOP NOW. and rethink.

 

 

    30 X 10 is a big space.   I am used to 24 X 8.   Our operating well is too narrow at 3ft 3" appox, it was supposed to be 3ft 6".... and its difficult to get another operator without lot of "excuse me's"   

 

Can you get a worthwhile load up the spiral... Conventional wisdom puts the ascending track on the outside so the line climbs to the right, yours climbs to the left. I would suggest a lot of testing with short heavy trains and feeble locos.  The longer rakes are more forgiving of humps and dips.     There is no access to the spiral despite being hollow as you can't actually get into the hollow centre with the upper baseboards on.

 

I don't see any use for the dead end sidings. There is no headshunt or loco depot, you can't push RTR stock round those 2ft rad curves. You can run a train in.  But then what?  We have some dead ends but the pure storage sidings are arranged so the trains reverse down a gradient for access with 8ft length accessed by more than 8ft straight before the 3ft radius points, no real force needed to propel in.

The others are arranged with dead ends, a loco yard and a headshunt clear of running lines.   Train in, new loco on back, pause for a day or so, train out, loco to depot or train in, loco on back, shift brake van to another siding, then back train on to van in different siding, then loco to depot.  In our experience you do not want to handle locos, even the 1970 something Airfix  14XX and Castle shed bits when handled.  There doesn't appear to be much operating interest.  For instance Crewlisle gets more in a quarter of the space.

 

We have a junction Station,with MPD, Goods depot, Milk depot, marshalling sidings carriage sidings, and a terminus with goods depot and MPD also wayside station with single track branch so there isn't much we can't do operating wise, except detach / combine trains as our platforms are only 8 coaches and really need 12 ofr 15.

 

I would put down Laminate flooring, we have tongue and groove, an excellent investment. That coarse board tends to de laminate and its very painful if you slip and get a splinter from it. I  Put blinds over the windows as sunlight can play havoc with card models and even fade tinplate or melt plastic, see warped models in model shop windows. Dark is good!

[Darius43]

I'm not sure this has been thought through sufficiently. 

 

The concept is flawed. STOP

 

 

You run trains to the top level. and then what?   There is no way back without an awkward crane shunt.   It doesn't work.    If like us you had a terminus on the highest level great but you don't  We would love a return loop at the hidden level but lack room (24X8 in 00)   Just stop work and work out where the trains go.

 

Either put a terminus on the top level or redesign for a spiral up and another back down so trains can run without reversing at the top level.  But ultimately STOP NOW. and rethink.

 

 

    30 X 10 is a big space.   I am used to 24 X 8.   Our operating well is too narrow at 3ft 3" appox, it was supposed to be 3ft 6".... and its difficult to get another operator without lot of "excuse me's"   

 

Can you get a worthwhile load up the spiral... Conventional wisdom puts the ascending track on the outside so the line climbs to the right, yours climbs to the left. I would suggest a lot of testing with short heavy trains and feeble locos.  The longer rakes are more forgiving of humps and dips.     There is no access to the spiral despite being hollow as you can't actually get into the hollow centre with the upper baseboards on.

 

I don't see any use for the dead end sidings. There is no headshunt or loco depot, you can't push RTR stock round those 2ft rad curves. You can run a train in.  But then what?  We have some dead ends but the pure storage sidings are arranged so the trains reverse down a gradient for access with 8ft length accessed by more than 8ft straight before the 3ft radius points, no real force needed to propel in.

The others are arranged with dead ends, a loco yard and a headshunt clear of running lines.   Train in, new loco on back, pause for a day or so, train out, loco to depot or train in, loco on back, shift brake van to another siding, then back train on to van in different siding, then loco to depot.  In our experience you do not want to handle locos, even the 1970 something Airfix  14XX and Castle shed bits when handled.  There doesn't appear to be much operating interest.  For instance Crewlisle gets more in a quarter of the space.

 

We have a junction Station,with MPD, Goods depot, Milk depot, marshalling sidings carriage sidings, and a terminus with goods depot and MPD also wayside station with single track branch so there isn't much we can't do operating wise, except detach / combine trains as our platforms are only 8 coaches and really need 12 ofr 15.

 

I would put down Laminate flooring, we have tongue and groove, an excellent investment. That coarse board tends to de laminate and its very painful if you slip and get a splinter from it. I  Put blinds over the windows as sunlight can play havoc with card models and even fade tinplate or melt plastic, see warped models in model shop windows. Dark is good!

 

David,

 

Many thanks for taking the time to comment and for your succint advice.  Putting aside your somewhat terse prose you do make some valid comments, espcailly about the terminus on the upper level, which my frend and I have discussed and will continue to do so as it does add a lot of interest to the operation of the layout.  I must say that the current and excellent "Kings Cross Suburban" layout thread is very inspirational in this respect.

 

The upper layout plan is, as I have said, fluid so will most likely not be as per the sketchup illustrations posted at the start of the threat.

 

The lower storage level dead end sidings are for several HSTs and other assorted multiple units (of which we have quite a few of many nationalities) and are not intended for loco-hauled trains for the reasons that you have stated.  We have changed the access route to these sidings so as to remove the reverse loop connection at the base of the helix.  This will become apparent as construction progresses.

 

We are aware of the implications of the orientation of the helix but this is the best location for it with respect to how my friend wants to use his shed.  This is why we are experimenting with Powerbase on the inside ascending track and will be testing this before extending the helix further.   The helix core will be accessed from below not above although we are planning to have removable scenery above to facilitate access.

 

As to the shed floor thanks again for your guidance - what is there now is most likley not the finished solution.

 

Cheers

 

Darius

 

PS - to quote Del Boy: "I hope you got your money back from the charm school".