The Kelsby Light Railway; or, Red's Hopeful Layout

[RedGemAlchemist]

The original KLR opened in 1903 to a rather lukewarm reception and was really the brainchild/personal plaything and folly of the local peer, Baronet David Bradleigh (Hewe Hall, the Bradleigh family's home, is clearly visible from the line) and being the community minded sort decided to build a line to serve the local villages. He'd planned to extend it further than where the line currently ends but died in 1913 before he got the chance. By this time though his son took over and the locals all had grown to regard the railway with affection. The nicknames for the locomotives even became their official names (one of these - the original opening day locomotive, No.1 "Bulldog" - still exists and still is regularly used on the line despite being over 110 years old).
The railway kept running through the Great War, but when the Grouping happened all hell broke loose as the Bradleighs did not want to give it up. Eventually a deal was made and it became an odd joint ownership between the Bradleighs (who had more than enough money to make it work) and the LNER, who would occasionally dump excess locomotives, usually barely working ones that it was not practical to repair, onto their hands. The KLR would then repair these using whatever they had, not really being in a position to turn down the extra motive power, or dismantle them and cobble them together into something else for the same reasons, and soldier along as always.
In the BR days however, the railway began to suffer and eventually the Beeching Axe fell and hit the line. However, protests led by the Bradleigh family and the locals managed to save the line - just. However, they were now totally on their own, and powered by a fleet of cobbled together and failing locomotives. 
Somehow, the line survived, even struggling past the official death of steam, and continues powered by its little fleet of largely unique, often bizarre modified locomotives, a clumped together collection of stock consisting of whatever the Bradleighs could get their hands on, and a never-say-die, can do attitude that has allowed it to survive - although now assisted in part by English Heritage. Far from being purely tourist, this is still a working railway thanks to the very isolated nature of the villages it serves, often moving around livestock between markets, aggregates to the small quarry on the line, or odds and ends from all over the place. It remains truly a curiosity amongst the many railways of Great Britain.

 

This is the formal page for the construction of the KLR layout itself, and the history above is a slight edit of the history I came up with on my original workbench thread. Finally getting around to making this thread as I'm hopefully finally getting somewhere and need somewhere to put all the discussion about the KLR layout itself. I now have my measurements of the interior of the shed that I'm building it in. 
 

If you are one of my friends amongst RMWeb's Pre-Grouping modellers and freelances, welcome to the real meat of my RMWeb career.
And if you're new to reading my threads... Welcome to the Kelsby Light Railway! I hope you enjoy your stay. 

As always, any assistance is fully appreciated.

Now the hard part. This really is the logical spinoff of this conversation with James Harrison. And it's about time I started this. 
I intend to model the KLR in its entirety, but my plans may have run into a tiny snag. At the moment I have six stations and two other minor stops in my mind. Problem: I'm working in 00 gauge and I'm working in an old shed that is half of a former stable (can't use the other half as it's boarded off and full of freezers.)
I have 2.55m x 2.40m (about 8' 4" x 7' 10") to work with in terms of floor area. I also need to keep the door (opening outwards and in the bottom-right corner of the room as one enters) clear. This should be interesting.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Nearholmer]

Spiral, giving perhaps 100mm elevation per turn, and of expanding radius?

 

Use view-blocks to disguise what’s happening a bit.

 

With extreme cunning you might get c50ft of run in that space, if you have a pretty tight inner radius and a small ‘pop hole’ in the middle, from which to operate.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Spiral, giving perhaps 100mm elevation per turn, and of expanding radius?

 

Use view-blocks to disguise what’s happening a bit.

 

With extreme cunning you might get c50ft of run in that space, if you have a pretty tight inner radius and a small ‘pop hole’ in the middle, from which to operate.

Tight radii may be a bit difficult, considering the size of some of the locomotives I have (looking at YOU, Eastern Rambler and Edward Bradleigh I...)

 

Also on the suggestion of James Harrison I've been reading this helpful guide of layout plans by C. J. Freezer. Very interesting, definitely gets the old grey matter ticking...

Edited May 19, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[RedGemAlchemist]

Concerning the possible (probable) rework of the KLR's layout and station list, here are the essentials:

Kelsby (mid-sized station in small town with small goods yard, carriage shed and 4-road loco shed)
Hewe (tiny station in village)

Alnerwick with small Inglenook-style quarry.

The KLR workshops
 

What else remains will be decided by what I can fit into the space effectively. As always I'm totally open to suggestions.

Edited May 19, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Nearholmer]

You’ve chosen an excellent book to guide you. I’ve been playing toy trains for more years than is healthy, and I’ve used that book on and off since it was published.

 

Your chosen/allotted area is very small for an ‘empire’, so I suggest you need to cut your suit to fit the cloth, and my gut feel is that that means one station, or very short trains, with very small locos.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Nearholmer

[RedGemAlchemist]

You’ve chosen an excellent book to guide you. I’ve been playing toy trains for more years than is healthy, and I’ve used that book on and off since it was published.

 

Your chosen/allotted area is very small for an ‘empire’, so I suggest you need to cut your suit to fit the cloth, and my gut feel is that that means one station, or very short trains, with very small locos.

Oh. Well, that would be a shame. Means that the fleet of locomotives I've been building will mostly be sitting in the wings, especially my larger locomotives like Eastern Rambler and Edward Bradleigh I. I'm just looking to get the most I can out of the space without making all my effort in planning feel like it wasn't worth anything. It doesn't need to be massive, just a happy balance between space and content. It looks like I might have to erase a good chunk of the railway anyway to get it to fit even in the largest possible layout which really kind of depresses me.

 

And believe me, I'd have had the whole shed given half the chance. That'd allow me to expand to about 5.10m x 2.40m. But then I'd have to smash out the wall into the other half of a shed that I don't even totally own and remove all of my freezers. Being able to eat is more important, however much I try and say otherwise, as is not getting myself and my mum evicted by our landlord.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[RedGemAlchemist]

Judging from the book though, you can do quite a lot with a 2.55m x 2.40m rectangle of space. Just need to work out an effective method of getting in as much of my ideas as possible.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[RedGemAlchemist]

Here's my original (very rough) KLR layout plan. 

Given your input Nearholmer... yeah, might have been overestimating what I can do with the space. Admittedly doing it like this would give me about 8.90m (about 29' 2") in running length at a rough estimate from the combined length of the walls minus the needed gap for the door, which is... actually not bad. But if I wanted to do it like that it'd need some serious adjustments. So I'd need to do some reworking now I'm actually starting on the planning phase proper.

 

With these thoughts in mind I've been doing some research. I've found several layouts here that are actually around the size I'm working with (as noted, 2.55m x 2.40m, or approximately 8' 4" x 7' 10".)  This one, by Joe Roberts, in particular caught my attention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRsb0vpL7DU
(If you are a member of RMWeb Mr. Roberts, apologies for using your video. Just it really got me thinking about the sort of stuff I'll be able to do with the space I have, and I needed to use it to illustrate my thought process.)

 

Also the available room is a bit more complex, as a roughly 40cm x 60cm square will have to be left by the door so I can still get in. This means that I can't use a small part of the right-hand wall. I also want to leave the shelves up for storage reasons as it's convenient. That's not an issue with space, it's just saying there is a silver lining. Not that I'd have a real choice of where to build as there's nowhere else on the entire property I can work in. 

Sorry for getting overly serious, I'm just really wracking my brain here trying to work out how to get the most of the space I have to work with. Now that I've had my overeagerness knocked down a peg I can start on actually thinking about this like the adult I really should be acting like rather than the kid finally getting to achieve his long-term goal.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Nearholmer]

The layout in the film is excellent, isn’t it?

 

He seems to have used two levels to get lots of track into the space, although not is a spiral.

 

I dont think your space is ludicrously small, plenty big enough for a viable layout, it’s more that you have great aspirations as to what it might contain.

 

Do you really need an ‘entry area’ by the door? If the door opens outwards, and you set the layout reasonably high, can’t you just limbo under it? Or, install a lifting flap?

 

I sometimes can’t be bothered to open the lifting flap when in mid-play, so duck underneath to get out of the door, and that’s with the layout set at about 800mm from the floor.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Nearholmer

[RedGemAlchemist]

The layout in the film is excellent, isn’t it?

He seems to have used two levels to get lots of track into the space, although not is a spiral.

I might do something like that to get more "bang for my buck", to coin an Americanism. Two levels would make it easier to get more into the layout, maybe even get in a third station (Kelsby is essential and Hewe is so tiny it won't require much room at all).

 

I don't think your space is ludicrously small, plenty big enough for a viable layout, it’s more that you have great aspirations as to what it might contain.

Yeah. I'll have to tone down my ambitions a little. The space is fine. My plans... were unrealistic. The KLR will have to get downsized a little.

 

Do you really need an ‘entry area’ by the door? If the door opens outwards, and you set the layout reasonably high, can’t you just limbo under it? Or, install a lifting flap?

I sometimes can’t be bothered to open the lifting flap when in mid-play, so duck underneath to get out of the door, and that’s with the layout set at about 800mm from the floor.

Mum keeps telling me I have to. I'm trying to strike a happy medium between creating the layout I want and not p*ssing her off too much (really I think it's more so she can still get in if she needs to rather than any sort of convenience, but that's just me .) Remember we do share a house.

Also, the fact that the side of the door is literally totally flush with the wall and the fact I'm playing this by ear as I'm learning how to do this as I'm going along might make the flap approach a bit awkward.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Nearholmer]

Plan 9 in that PSL book is a seriously good one, well-tried, tested, and popular in different iterations. (It’s the Dean FY BLT,as per Ffarquhar, but with central operating well, for the benefit of those who don’t want to check the book)

 

It does have a lift-out bit over the doorway, but such a small one that it would be very easy to make.

 

Given that it fits into a slightly smaller space than you have, it would be possible to elaborate the smaller station a bit, which would make it even better.

 

That’s the one I’d go for, if complicated carpentry was off the agenda,

[RedGemAlchemist]

Plan 9 in that PSL book is a seriously good one, well-tried, tested, and popular in different iterations. (It’s the Dean FY BLT,as per Ffarquhar, but with central operating well, for the benefit of those who don’t want to check the book)

 

It does have a lift-out bit over the doorway, but such a small one that it would be very easy to make.

 

Given that it fits into a slightly smaller space than you have, it would be possible to elaborate the smaller station a bit, which would make it even better.

 

That’s the one I’d go for, if complicated carpentry was off the agenda,

Hmm. Definitely a thought. With that extra space there's a lot you could do with it. I'll keep thinking, but some adaptation of that is a possibility.

And I never said the lifting flap or any complex carpentry was totally off-limits, just that it would be awkward. I can live with awkward, assuming it's doable. And as stated I'm definitely considering doing at least one other layer to allow for more usage of space and possibly even get a third station in there.

[James Harrison]

Have you considered making Kelsby a junction terminus style station?  I think you could get a lot more of your wishlist in if you approached it as a series of short branches that coalesce at the terminus, rather than one long line that goes to all of them en-route. 

 

For instance; put Kelsby on a diagonal going across the shed.  Double track out through the station throat and across the shorter wall, then the inner line comes back in toward Kelsby and then terminates at Alnerwick and a quarry. In effect, you've got a running line that forms a horseshoe sort of a shape.  It also means you can operate those two stations effectively on your own (I'm assuming you're planning to run the layout alone?) without having to run back and forth between the two. 

 

Now the second, outer line from Kelsby runs down the back of Alnerwick, along the other side of the shed and then up the back.  You could put Hewe station anywhere along those two walls (saying it's a tiny station kind of suggests something along the lines of a Colonel Stephens or even ex-GWR pagoda style country halt, so not going to require much in the way of hands-on operator guidance).  If you were to put it on the other end wall of the shed you could put a siding or two there without having to worry about shuffling past or ducking under baseboards to get to operate it.  That still leaves the long back wall of the shed for another length of plain running line (your workshops could go here too) and then ducking under the double track out of Kelsby to terminate in a fiddle yard.  Or links back in to the uter circuit to form a continuous run.

 

That way you have a long running line around the walls of the shed that your larger locos can still run on.  The short Alnerwick- Kelsby section is probably better suited to smaller locos but that gives you an excuse (you don't need one of those!) to build more locos- and because you've then got two routes with two different motive power requirements means you can start running it like a real railway with specific locos for specific duties, if that sort of thing appeals to you.   

[RedGemAlchemist]

Have you considered making Kelsby a junction terminus style station?  I think you could get a lot more of your wishlist in if you approached it as a series of short branches that coalesce at the terminus, rather than one long line that goes to all of them en-route. 

 

For instance; put Kelsby on a diagonal going across the shed.  Double track out through the station throat and across the shorter wall, then the inner line comes back in toward Kelsby and then terminates at Alnerwick and a quarry. In effect, you've got a running line that forms a horseshoe sort of a shape.  It also means you can operate those two stations effectively on your own (I'm assuming you're planning to run the layout alone?) without having to run back and forth between the two. 

 

Now the second, outer line from Kelsby runs down the back of Alnerwick, along the other side of the shed and then up the back.  You could put Hewe station anywhere along those two walls (saying it's a tiny station kind of suggests something along the lines of a Colonel Stephens or even ex-GWR pagoda style country halt, so not going to require much in the way of hands-on operator guidance).  If you were to put it on the other end wall of the shed you could put a siding or two there without having to worry about shuffling past or ducking under baseboards to get to operate it.  That still leaves the long back wall of the shed for another length of plain running line (your workshops could go here too) and then ducking under the double track out of Kelsby to terminate in a fiddle yard.  Or links back in to the uter circuit to form a continuous run.

 

That way you have a long running line around the walls of the shed that your larger locos can still run on.  The short Alnerwick- Kelsby section is probably better suited to smaller locos but that gives you an excuse (you don't need one of those!) to build more locos- and because you've then got two routes with two different motive power requirements means you can start running it like a real railway with specific locos for specific duties, if that sort of thing appeals to you.   

That is a very good idea, especially that last note as I already have several locomotives for specific jobs. Plus by the sounds of it it'd still give me space to maybe expand a little if I wanted to. Kelsby was meant to be a terminus anyway, though not as a junction. Might even put Hewe near the quarry as having the main trains going to a station that small doesn't make a huge amount of sense. The length of plain running I could even add a third mid-sized station on to go with the workshops (using one of the unused names).

And yes, a small Colonel Stephens style halt is EXACTLY what I intend Hewe to be, serving a miniscule hamlet sitting on the River Thet. Might need a diagram though as it's a bit hard to visualise that all.

 

Current locos in my roster and their jobs, in case you're interested, or even if you've seen them already on my workbench thread (probable) so you have them here for quick reference: 

 

1. Bulldog (Triang "Nellie" refurbishment) - light mixed traffic rota; also specials
2. Wild Rover (Triang LNER B12 rebuilt into 0-6-0) - express rota
3. Peter (Dapol L&Y Pug bashed into Beyer Peacock saddle tank) - Kelsby station pilot
4. Mastodon (Hornby Dublo 0-4-0 starter tank heavily bashed into Hudswell Clarke style heavy industrial 0-6-0) - resident loco for the quarry
5. Geoffrey Lake (Hornby Thomas bashed into freelance 0-6-0) - light mixed traffic rota
6. Wanderer (Airfix GWR 14xx) - light local rota
7. Gremlin (freelance bash of about four Triang and Hornby starter locos into tiny 0-4-0) - Alnerwick station pilot
8. Eastern Rambler (Slightly modified Hornby LMS Fowler 4P) - express rota
9. Edward Bradleigh I (Slightly modified Bachmann LNER K3, actually No.16 - at least at the moment, considering the size of the layout probably not now) - express rota

And that's the KLR fleet so far. Eastern Region steam freelance, Route Availability Rating 5.

Edited May 20, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[mervyn]

Really liking your thread my layout (in the throes of rebuilding ) is freelance so I run different stuff together there are American Alcos pulling K Bay stats old german coaches  some UK Locos with a mixture of goods wagons ,most of my locos I buy because I just like them so there is a mixture of all sorts on my railway, I tried the prototype thing but it became to limiting and boring so now on the Festiniog and Damascus Jct its anything goes......enjoy it ,its what the hobby is all about I do admire those people who model specific locations etc but it's not for me freelance rules!......

[RedGemAlchemist]

Really liking your thread my layout (in the throes of rebuilding ) is freelance so I run different stuff together there are American Alcos pulling K Bay stats old german coaches  some UK Locos with a mixture of goods wagons ,most of my locos I buy because I just like them so there is a mixture of all sorts on my railway, I tried the prototype thing but it became to limiting and boring so now on the Festiniog and Damascus Jct its anything goes......enjoy it ,its what the hobby is all about I do admire those people who model specific locations etc but it's not for me freelance rules!......

Wow, someone's excitable! 

Yeah, I just prefer being able to do my own thing. Though I do have a specific region in mind to model aesthetics-wise - my home area of East Anglia namely. 

[Edwardian]

Really liking your thread my layout (in the throes of rebuilding ) is freelance so I run different stuff together there are American Alcos pulling K Bay stats old german coaches  some UK Locos with a mixture of goods wagons ,most of my locos I buy because I just like them so there is a mixture of all sorts on my railway, I tried the prototype thing but it became to limiting and boring so now on the Festiniog and Damascus Jct its anything goes......enjoy it ,its what the hobby is all about I do admire those people who model specific locations etc but it's not for me freelance rules!......

 

Well, there's "freelance" as you apply the term, and "freelance" as I do.

 

They mean entirely different things!

 

One is not better than the other, but they are different.

 

What you evidently mean by the term "freelance" is, in fact, "anything goes", or, more precisely, "un-prototypical".  That last definition is bound to sound judgmental, because, after all, generation after generation, we have had the desirability of ever greater prototype fidelity drummed into us, reflecting the fact that, in the early days of the hobby, it took a lot of work to avoid the toy-like proprietary look.

 

Not that you need my, or anyone's, approval, but I see nothing wrong with the "anything goes" approach. I think of it, fondly, as the "for the joy of it" approach, after an old Railway Modeller feature concerning just such a layout. Moreover, I think many, probably most of us have at least a foot in the "anything goes" camp.  We might have a layout that represents a specific place (actual or fictional) based on a certain company or region at a certain period in time, but Rule No.1 exists to reflect the fact that people often run models that they like, but which do not fit their layout's scheme.  I know that I will run all manner of things in addition to my layout's 'official' stock.

 

What I mean by "freelance", however, is a prototypical layout, but one not based upon an historic railway company, but based instead upon a fictitious one.  I can confidently say that, to produce a prototypical freelance railway, as much research and understanding of the prototype is required as it takes to produce a prototypical layout of a real railway. It has been huge fun learning all that is necessary to plan a convincing make-believe world.

 

I think that the word "freelance" better describes what I do than what you do, and I do find it misleading to represent two very different ideas with a single term. My reservations concern the terminology, however, not the approach, and I have a great deal of time for the "for the joy of it " approach, as, in some ways, it represents the lure of the hobby in its purest form; one wants to see the trains running, and to see running any train that inspires, without closing off whole areas of the railway universe from view.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Edwardian

[Northroader]

Have you picked up on the Tweedale blog?http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1827/entry-20847-tweedale-a-day-trip-to-the-woods/

I was thinking it might be useful, in that it compartmentalises each situation, so you can build up a chain of places like you’re hoping for, with each one in a box, visually separated from its neighbour. I tried something like this in American HO a while ago. Each box had half a passing loop in it, so they paired up, but the front fascia blocked the view of the join. Corners were just made up from quarter turns with half loops on a plain board. Doing it like this you can save a lot of space on the length of run.

[RedGemAlchemist]

Have you picked up on the Tweedale blog?http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1827/entry-20847-tweedale-a-day-trip-to-the-woods/

I was thinking it might be useful, in that it compartmentalises each situation, so you can build up a chain of places like you’re hoping for, with each one in a box, visually separated from its neighbour. I tried something like this in American HO a while ago. Each box had half a passing loop in it, so they paired up, but the front fascia blocked the view of the join. Corners were just made up from quarter turns with half loops on a plain board. Doing it like this you can save a lot of space on the length of run.

An excellent suggestion Northroader, but I really like Mr. Harrison's idea. I'm probably going with that once he gives me more specifics.

I'll definitely read that blog though. Every little helps.

Edited May 21, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[sem34090]

Hurrah! A layout topic to follow!

[Nearholmer]

Red

 

Having now seen your loco list, and what these engines are intended to do, and donning, for the moment, a Light Railway Commissioner's titfah, I'm going to express slight concerns.

 

You talk of an 'express' service, which is something that will struggle to fit within the envelope of a Light Railway Order. LR's were conceived as a way of making railways cheaper, largely by removing the cost and time burden associated with the need to obtain an Act of Parliament to authorise each one, but also by loosening the safety requirements, usually in return for a quite tight speed limit.

 

As preserved railways have proved, it is quite possible for a LR to operate monster locomotives, and intense train services, but I think that the LRC will 'smell a rat' if you seek an LRO to run an express railway. And, the BoT Inspectors will be muttering into the ears of the LRC that it will be necessary for any LRO to disapply most of the safety-system reliefs that they have devised specifically for LROs.

 

If you get away with it, and obtain an LRO, you will probably have to build something that looks a bit like the current SVR, rather than something that looks typically 'Colonel'.

 

Layout-wise, I was trying to remember the name of the layout that Northroader mentions, so that I could recommend it ...... but he has beaten me to it, by having a better memory.

 

K

[Northroader]

Durrhh, wot did you just say?

[Edwardian]

Durrhh, wot did you just say?

 

He's having a "Sir Humphrey moment" ...

[RedGemAlchemist]

Red

 

Having now seen your loco list, and what these engines are intended to do, and donning, for the moment, a Light Railway Commissioner's titfah, I'm going to express slight concerns.

 

You talk of an 'express' service, which is something that will struggle to fit within the envelope of a Light Railway Order. LR's were conceived as a way of making railways cheaper, largely by removing the cost and time burden associated with the need to obtain an Act of Parliament to authorise each one, but also by loosening the safety requirements, usually in return for a quite tight speed limit.

 

As preserved railways have proved, it is quite possible for a LR to operate monster locomotives, and intense train services, but I think that the LRC will 'smell a rat' if you seek an LRO to run an express railway. And, the BoT Inspectors will be muttering into the ears of the LRC that it will be necessary for any LRO to disapply most of the safety-system reliefs that they have devised specifically for LROs.

 

If you get away with it, and obtain an LRO, you will probably have to build something that looks a bit like the current SVR, rather than something that looks typically 'Colonel'.

 

Layout-wise, I was trying to remember the name of the layout that Northroader mentions, so that I could recommend it ...... but he has beaten me to it, by having a better memory.

 

K

I'm aware of that, and sorry. I just couldn't think of the term I meant. I mean the larger stuff will do the main line and the smaller locos run the little branch to the quarry. I just used the term express because I couldn't think of a better one.

[Edwardian]

I'll tell you a great layout to inspire you. well, I would if I could recall its name.

 

It's a 4mm finescale layout, EM IIRC, and it's based on a privately owned industrial system, so mainly goods, but also some passenger.

 

IIRC it's set in the East Midlands.

 

It has featured in magazines a couple of time in recent years, including one shot showing how it fits into the room.

 

I wish I could remember the name!!!