Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[jjb1970]

2 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

I read that VW are planning to launch an electric estate car next year. It is said to be capable of 300 miles on one charge, which will suit me down to the ground as the maximum distance I tend to travel in one day is just over 200. 

 

If the price is reasonable, I will certainly be interested. 

 

The KIA eNiro may already be a good option, depending on how big you want the boot to be. The power train is the same as our Kona which provides great performance and a genuine 250 mile range. And cabin trim quality, fit & finish etc is excellent in the KIA.

[APOLLO]

I'm retired and very much out of long distance driving these days. A BEV would suit me fine - perhaps one day. I can't justify a new one for the 3-4000 miles a year I currently do. Secondhand electric cars are unknown territory for me also,

 

My son bought a Hyundai  i30 diesel a couple of years ago. Stop start, averages 54 mpg, free road tax, plenty room, all the gizmos, 5 year guarantee  etc - a fine car, zero problems also. He works down in Poole and drives the 250+ miles up to Wigan every month or so. This car does it in it's stride - and economically also. A BEV wouldn't do for him though a Hybrid would probably be OK.  He's thinking of a BMW 3 series plug in hybrid (daft lad !!) - I'd go for another Hyundai with it's 5 year warranty.

 

Next year he will change his car and I might buy his car off him though short journeys I do and modern diesels don't mix.

 

I wonder how long I will be able to run this old girl (I do around 400 miles / year. (20 mpg on a good day !!)  She's depleted a few oilfields in her time !!

 

 

Brit15

[30801]

57 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

Going forward we all should be squeezing every mile out of every KWhour, gallon of diesel / petrol. Performance cars need to be phased out if we are at all serious if climate change is such a threat. 

 

It's not a question of performance cars. It's just how they work.

Sit in a Leaf and floor it away from a standing start. Then do the same in an ice car with the same power and weight. That's 107bhp and 1,600kg. The difference is significant.

 

You wouldn't call a 1.6 tonne car with 107bhp a performance car but there you go.

[black and decker boy]

5 hours ago, raymw said:

Some stuff that is not often mentioned wrt Tesla.

 

I’m not seeing any meaningful loss of battery overnight unless I leave it’s security setting (sentry mode) enabled

 

Range Loss in winter is an issue but as I’ve not had the car through a summer yet, I can’t say what the difference is.

 

my old car, A BMW 3 series diesel had compromises too. Long motorway journeys in cruise it would do 60mpg. Short hops round town it was 30 to 40mpg. To make my mileage payments break even, I needed it to do 55mpg plus.

[jjb1970]

At the moment the financial case for EVs is less convincing than the eco and niceness cases but that is changing. 

[boxbrownie]

5 hours ago, raymw said:

Some stuff that is not often mentioned wrt Tesla.

 

Well that’s ten minutes I’ll never get back.......what a load of drivel.

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

my old car, A BMW 3 series diesel had compromises too. Long motorway journeys in cruise it would do 60mpg. Short hops round town it was 30 to 40mpg. To make my mileage payments break even, I needed it to do 55mpg plus.

 

That's an example of having the right tool for the job - it was the right tool for the motorways, the wrong one for around town. No car is a good one size fits all tasks vehicle.

Edited March 10, 2020 by Reorte

[The Fatadder]

I’m practicing my range anxiety tomorrow, the Insignia is showing a range of 98 miles. The round trip to work is around 84 miles via the girls school. 
 

The i3s arrives on Thursday and I am determined to give the insignia back to the leaser  with an empty tank...  

 

Can’t wait for Thursday 

[jjb1970]

12 hours ago, APOLLO said:

I'm retired and very much out of long distance driving these days. A BEV would suit me fine - perhaps one day. I can't justify a new one for the 3-4000 miles a year I currently do. Secondhand electric cars are unknown territory for me also,

 

My son bought a Hyundai  i30 diesel a couple of years ago. Stop start, averages 54 mpg, free road tax, plenty room, all the gizmos, 5 year guarantee  etc - a fine car, zero problems also. He works down in Poole and drives the 250+ miles up to Wigan every month or so. This car does it in it's stride - and economically also. A BEV wouldn't do for him though a Hybrid would probably be OK.  He's thinking of a BMW 3 series plug in hybrid (daft lad !!) - I'd go for another Hyundai with it's 5 year warranty.

 

Next year he will change his car and I might buy his car off him though short journeys I do and modern diesels don't mix.

 

I wonder how long I will be able to run this old girl (I do around 400 miles / year. (20 mpg on a good day !!)  She's depleted a few oilfields in her time !!

 

 

Brit15

 

The BMW 330e is a superb car, people may not like the image of BMW drivers (although that isn't as bad as Audi these days) but they do know how to design great cars.

The funny thing about the three German prestige manufacturers is that they still seem to be seen as expensive yet because you can get such big discounts on them they are often very competitive with ostensibly much cheaper cars.

For example, on carwow the best price I have been offered for the Hyundai Ioniq phev is 27.5k, for the 330e 31.5k. At list price I would go for the Ioniq, but at the actual price to buy the 330e looks better. I have been offered biblical discounts on the 5 series and E class phev variants on the same site. Compared to Japanese and Korean brands the German brands offer huge discounts. 

[boxbrownie]

11 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

The round trip to work is around 84 miles via the girls school. 
 

 

 I’d suggest you avoid the girls school 

[Enterprisingwestern]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

Compared to Japanese and Korean brands the German brands offer huge discounts. 

 

Indicative of the excessive mark up of German cars to shaft the morons who think badge engineering is the be all and end all to motoring life?

 

Mike.

[jjb1970]

22 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Indicative of the excessive mark up of German cars to shaft the morons who think badge engineering is the be all and end all to motoring life?

 

Mike.

 

Certainly if dealers can offer 20%+ discounts and still operate at a profit the margins built into the SRP must be pretty high (admittedly a lot of the discounts include manufacturer contributions etc).

 

When I bought the A6 the list price was 40k, and the price I paid was 28.5k (if I remember right, it was thereabouts), and I didn't even have to haggle. I was very close to buying a Mazda 6 but the A6 worked out at almost the same price despite being a much more expensive car on paper. I have often regretted not buying the Mazda, the Audi had superior cabin touch point quality and some neat creature comforts but the Mazda was a nicer car to drive and I suspect mechanical/electrical quality would have been better (I have been rather disappointed by Audi build quality and reliability).

[APOLLO]

Mazda and build quality. Three years ago I was changing my runaround 1996 VW Polo saloon (good car). I looked at several Mazda 3's - ALL were very rusty underneath - one even had MOT advisories on rust !! Ford Focuses I looked at were similar, though not as bad. I plumped for a 2008 Seat Leon 1.6 Petrol (same engine as the POLO so a known quantity), 58K on the clock. Not a bit of rust anywhere, 32 mpg - a good car for just under three grand.  The dealer had a used Prius in, 120K, five grand - Bargain or risk ? - as I said earlier totally uncharted territory for me.

 

Brit15

[Ian Morgan]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

 I’d suggest you avoid the girls school 

 

When I was temping before starting university, I did a couple of days as driver's mate on a truck delivering cigarettes to corner shops. The driver seemed to know where all the girls schools were, and what times they kicked them out. Not sure if he was interested in the girls, or the yummy mummys waiting to collect them.

 

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, jjb1970 said:

 

 

When I bought the A6 the list price was 40k, and the price I paid was 28.5k (if I remember right, it was thereabouts), and I didn't even have to haggle. 

That’s interesting and almost the exact same situation we had when buying our A6 Hybrid, we bought it for £28.5K as well (must be an Audi thing ) but as I recall at the time the A6 Hybrid was one of the most expensive Audi’s at something like £57K........so buying it at effectively half price was to good to be true, I guess being an early Hybrid and an unusual A6 it was just stuck in the showroom, had been there for 4 months without a bite......until we came along, worked for us though because when we went to pick the A6 up we also ordered a new Q3 2L diesel auto, it took eight months to be delivered and the Audi dealer gave us £28.5K in part exchange, although I did make that price conditional on us ordering the Q3.....so the dealer gave us a top of the range A6 for eight months free 

 

‘’Oh yes and at the time we bought the A6 Hybrid there were only 28 registered, and 24 of them were dealer demos, now that’s a rare car 

[number6]

I had a new tyre fitted at the BMW dealer the other day and sat working in their showroom for an hour or so. 

 

While half listening to the service guys and salesmen, the constant mention of oil changes, service packages, clutch and drivetrain issues struck me as I don’t have to consider all that stuff anymore. Or consider the costs, which aren’t nothing. The fact that service or oil change finance packages are offered in order to spread the cost implies they cost a bit more than people expect or are prepared to pay. 

 

When I first went in there three years ago to look at the i3 it was way down the back - yesterday there weren’t any EVs to look at only a massive SUV thing looking all heavy and ugly. 

 

I’m still surprised how little the BMW people in there seem to know about EVs. The service guy didn’t know about regenerative braking (meaning I still don’t need him to sell me any new brake pads). He said the system was suggesting I change them not because of the wear but because of their age. I wonder if there is an algorithm in their service system that pushes early replacement of parts? 

 

I guess EVs didn’t give them much to do and make service departments semi obsolete... I also guess that is true of the dealer model which is mostly about making money from finance and from service contracts and nothing much to do with the type of fuel cars use. 

 

Happy motoring.

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, number6 said:

 

.....I guess EVs didn’t give them much to do and make service departments semi obsolete... I also guess that is true of the dealer model which is mostly about making money from finance and from service contracts and nothing much to do with the type of fuel cars use. 

 

 

That’s exactly the major issue the dealerships face.

Most of them are owned by large groups, so there’s a lot at stake.

Taking away their service income means a wholesale change to the financial model for running dealerships.

 

It both annoyed and amused me to see that Audi’s initial response is to offer a range of expensive service contracts for the e-tron.

Starting at £390 for an overall annual service inspection and a pollen filter and brake fluid change, ....

.....and going up to £1,355 for a 4 year plan that adds a change of wiper blades, an aircon service and MOT’s for year 3 and 4.

 

Basically charging double, for less than 10% of the work and parts required.

 

 

.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

That’s exactly the major issue the dealerships face.

Most of them are owned by large groups, so there’s a lot at stake.

Taking away their service income means a wholesale change to the financial model for running dealerships.

 

It both annoyed and amused me to see that Audi’s initial response is to offer a range of expensive service contracts for the e-tron.

Starting at £390 for an overall annual service inspection and a pollen filter and brake fluid change, ....

.....and going up to £1,355 for a 4 year plan that adds a change of wiper blades, an aircon service and MOT’s for year 3 and 4.

 

Basically charging double, for less than 10% of the work and parts required.

 

 

.

It is amusing they are now having to include items that would not normally be a regular “service item” but those that are usually advised to be changed.......I think I would take my own advice on those still!

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, Ian Morgan said:

When I was temping before starting university, I did a couple of days as driver's mate on a truck delivering cigarettes to corner shops. The driver seemed to know where all the girls schools were, and what times they kicked them out. Not sure if he was interested in the girls, or the yummy mummys waiting to collect them.

 

If I were a delivery driver, I would be interested in knowing the finishing times of schools so I could avoid all the extra congestion.

[jjb1970]

The Volvo XC40 hybrid looks interesting but the EV range looks to be just a bit short for me to avoid using the engine Mon - Friday, plus all models incur the £320 VED surcharge. Given the pricing I am surprised Volvo haven't included a model that dips below 40k, it's very noticeable that the BMW 330e just dips below. 

 

I have done dry runs replicating my daily use in the Ioniq phev and 330e and both do the necessary 30 miles, including in cold -ish weather. I like the Volvo (and the S60 T8) but the 330e is a better car than either other than in terms of cabin design and the Ioniq is by far the most economical and is extremely well equipped. 

[black and decker boy]

More EV infrastructure now being introduced

 

https://www.gridserve.com/post/uk-s-first-electric-forecourt-is-under-construction-opening-summer-2020
 

[Karhedron]

14 hours ago, black and decker boy said:

More EV infrastructure now being introduced

 

https://www.gridserve.com/post/uk-s-first-electric-forecourt-is-under-construction-opening-summer-2020

 

Can all cars support that charging rate? 350Kw is very fast indeed.

[boxbrownie]

23 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Can all cars support that charging rate? 350Kw is very fast indeed.

They will charge “up to” 350Kw.......

[30801]

29 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Can all cars support that charging rate? 350Kw is very fast indeed.

 

Mine's about 300kW shy of that.

 

The bigger the battery, the faster the charge rate especially with actively cooled ones. Couldn't tell you off hand any cars that might get anywhere near that rate though.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, 30801 said:

 

Mine's about 300kW shy of that.

 

The bigger the battery, the faster the charge rate especially with actively cooled ones. Couldn't tell you off hand any cars that might get anywhere near that rate though.

Well to be more accurate the higher rated the onboard charging controller the more Kw the vehicle can charge at.

 

A lot of new EVs can charge at least 100kw, and as mentioned above, maybe EVs like the iPace, Audi E-Tron etc etc will charge faster.