Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[jjb1970]

Government incentives were always going to reduce with increased take up. The next phase will be shifting the burden for revenue collection and milking zero emission vehicles. 

[boxbrownie]

12 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

OK, I am that Luddite, perfectly happy with window winders. They work and rarely need expensive maintenance. KISS!

I can honestly say that I have NEVER had a vehicle with a failed electric window.....but had a few in the early days with stripped handle splines on the manual winders or where the glass became detached from the mechanism because too much effort could be put on the manual winder, a situation that the electric winding force limiter doesn’t allow.

 

Luddite  

[jjb1970]

The toy that I still can't see the point of unless you have an impairment that makes it useful is the powered tailgate. These days it seems to be a must have on car spec sheets but for an able bodied person it really does seem pointless.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Tesla putting everything onto the single touch screen is way OTT.

If I’ve got it right, you can’t open the glove box without operating it from the screen?

 

One of our cars is a current model (new shape) Volvo X60, with all the trimmings and gizmos.

The button to deselect the Stop-Start function is on a page on the central touch screen.

Stop-Start resets to active every time the engine is switched off and something easily forgotten about until you next take the car out and come to the first junction, where you need to be ready to pull out quickly ........and the engine cuts out.
Once on the way again, it’s a matter of taking your eyes off the road to swipe the main screen to another page, to find the Stop-Start activation/ deactivation button amongst a whole page of settings controls.

A right bloody nuisance. Just give me a frigging physical button to press!

 

 

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[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

It will be interesting to see see whether MB, Audi & BMW recover the market they are losing when they expand their EV ranges.

 

Although I suspect that as they do adjust Tesla will also be under pressure to improve cabin quality too. 

Very true, Tesla interior fit and finish (and exterior tbh) is still lagging well behind the best such as Volvo, Audi and Mercedes, and this is what will lure the top EV market segment buyers back.

[jjb1970]

Two examples where a conventional dial remain superior are temperature control and audio volume. Turn one way to make cool ( or quiet), turn the other way to make warm ( or loud). I also think a conventional instrument cluster (even if they use a flat panel screen) is highly desirable. 

 

Most car manufacturers seem to have back peddled slightly from the rush to eliminate buttons and dials of a few years ago and retain shortcut buttons and certain controls where a physical control makes more sense. And I like retaining a scroll wheel control too as it is a lot less distracting than a touchscreen. 

 

I really am amazed safety agencies have accepted putting everything on a single touchscreen.

[boxbrownie]

12 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The toy that I still can't see the point of unless you have an impairment that makes it useful is the powered tailgate. These days it seems to be a must have on car spec sheets but for an able bodied person it really does seem pointless.

An item we can hardly be without, well my wife with her rheumatoid arthritis it makes an almost impossible task to close a lot of the quite heavily spring loaded tailgates.

[jjb1970]

Just now, boxbrownie said:

An item we can hardly be without, well my wife with her rheumatoid arthritis it makes an almost impossible task to close a lot of the quite heavily spring loaded tailgates.

 

Indeed I can see why it is useful for some people. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

The toy that I still can't see the point of unless you have an impairment that makes it useful is the powered tailgate. These days it seems to be a must have on car spec sheets but for an able bodied person it really does seem pointless.

I disagree.

It was a novelty when we had our first car with a powered boot lid and a a year later a second car with a fully powered tailgate.

Just one of the nice convenience features that came with paying for a luxury brand.

However, it has proven to be a boon when having hands full of stuff.

Particularly as we now have a car with the foot gesture feature, under the rear valance.

I can walk up to the rear of the car with my hands holding large or awkward items, or a couple of heavy suitcases or shopping bags....wave my foot under the valance and hey presto, the tailgate opens. Magic !

When I first saw that some cars were getting this foot operated system, I thought it was silly and unnecessary, but like many other things it has proved to be a really useful and convenient feature.

OK we’re not going to die if this convenience is removed and god forbid, we have to open and close the tailgate with our own hands; but we’re not going to replace our washing machine with a scrubbing board and mangle, nor lobby the car manufacturers to reintroduce starting handles.

 

As the meerkat says....AUTOMATED!
 

 

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[jjb1970]

4 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Very true, Tesla interior fit and finish (and exterior tbh) is still lagging well behind the best such as Volvo, Audi and Mercedes, and this is what will lure the top EV market segment buyers back.

 

I wonder if they are feeling any heat in the pricier segment now there are a number of premium alternatives to the S and Y? Personally I find the Jaguar I Pace much nicer than the S or Y, if I was given a blank cheque to buy any car just now it would be an I Pace.

[boxbrownie]

5 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

 

I wonder if they are feeling any heat in the pricier segment now there are a number of premium alternatives to the S and Y? Personally I find the Jaguar I Pace much nicer than the S or Y, if I was given a blank cheque to buy any car just now it would be an I Pace.

We find the iPace just feels very cramped in the front cabin, it follows the trend of recent Jaguars to “wrap/cocoon” the driver......I hate that, oddly our i3 feels much more spacious in the front than our Daughters iPace, also the iPace for me is much more difficult to ingress/egress than the i3 due to the i3’s higher/bigger door area and higher H point.

 

edit: iPace is a cracking EV though 

Edited March 14, 2020 by boxbrownie

[black and decker boy]

In normal operation, having most controls on the touchscreen isnt an issue.

 

headlights are automatic. Windscreen wipers are automatic. HVAC is automatic. I don’t use the glove box whilst driving and in any case, with no gear train, the whole of the centre console is storage so I don’t have anything in the glovebox anyway.

 

music can be adjusted using the steering wheel left button. Cruise control aspects are adjusted using the right button.

 

windows operate by a door button

 

indicators & gears by standard levers Windscreen washer by normal push button on stalk

 

demister can be turned on by the app before you leave the house so I’ve never needed to switch it on whilst driving.

 

it takes a few days to adjust but I don’t find the controls an issue

[jjb1970]

We haven't used a public charger yet, one of the things Mrs JJB insisted on was being able to cover her regular trips without needing to recharge.

[boxbrownie]

38 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

Government incentives were always going to reduce with increased take up. The next phase will be shifting the burden for revenue collection and milking zero emission vehicles. 

But the luxury car tax (plus £40K premium charge) has been eliminated on EVs now.......that’s a surprise.

 

And yes soon there will be a EV fuel tax added to any power used to charge your EV, all arranged by your power supplier and through the smart meter that will be compulsory soon and for now are available for free (under the pretence of) just to save the consumer money.

 

Biggest insult is they (UK.Gov) still think we are thick as s**t and don’t realise what’s going on, maybe some don’t?

Edited March 14, 2020 by boxbrownie

[Ron Ron Ron]

Mercedes MBUX  system seems to be getting universal praise for balancing the way things are controlled by touch screens, voice activation and physical controls.

The impression I get with Tesla, is they do things that way, simply because they can....and that they are trying to be deliberately different, sometimes for the sake of it, or as a PR device to create the notion of “different”.
 

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[jjb1970]

Putting everything on a touchscreen also eases manufacturing and is cheaper. Ditto digital instruments. 

[black and decker boy]

16 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

But the luxury car tax (plus £40K premium charge) has been eliminated on EVs now.......that’s a surprise.

 

And yes soon there will be a EV fuel tax added to any power used to charge your EV, all arranged by your power supplier and through the smart meter that will be compulsory soon and for now are available for free (under the pretence of) just to save the consumer money.

 

Biggest insult is they (UK.Gov) still think we are thick as s**t and don’t realise what’s going on, maybe some don’t?

Smart meters are not free in any way.

 

all customers have been paying a nationwide levy that pays for them. I’ve been told my 10 yr old house is not compatible so whilst I paid the levy hidden in my energy bills, I don’t get the smart meter.

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

We find the iPace just feels very cramped in the front cabin, it follows the trend of recent Jaguars to “wrap/cocoon” the driver......I hate that, oddly our i3 feels much more spacious in the front than our Daughters iPace, also the iPace for me is much more difficult to ingress/egress than the i3 due to the i3’s higher/bigger door area and higher H point.

 

edit: iPace is a cracking EV though 

 

 

The I Pace defies normal categorisation. It looks like an SUV and is pretty practical but it is low slung and the driving dynamics are very much like a high performance saloon type car. Initially I disliked it as I am not really a fan of soft reader type cars but the I Pace seems to be one of those rare cars that does it's own thing and is very right. I love the coupe like cockpit feel but for sure that is personal preference. I just find it to be a staggeringly accomplished car. The local Audi dealer tried pushing their ETron and I have to say I didn't think the Audi was in the same class as the I Pace.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

Smart meters are not free in any way.

 

all customers have been paying a nationwide levy that pays for them. I’ve been told my 10 yr old house is not compatible so whilst I paid the levy hidden in my energy bills, I don’t get the smart meter.

OK then when you have a smart meter fitted you do not have to pay for it........everybody does....OK? 

[jjb1970]

I had a look at the MG ZS EV today, I wasn't aware there was an MG dealer in Milton Keynes but when I went to see the Leaf it turns out the local Nissan and Fiat dealer now also sells MG.

 

Maybe it is because my expectations were not so high but I was genuinely impressed.  Good rear seat space and a big boot and although the interior won't give Audi any sleepless nights it was very acceptable. And for the price it appears to be a practical and pleasant family car. Plenty of toys too. And a seven year warranty. 

 

 

[PatB]

17 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Putting everything on a touchscreen also eases manufacturing and is cheaper. Ditto digital instruments. 

I would imagine it's also an advantage when supplying to both RHD and LHD markets, in the same way as central speedos on many British cars of the 50s and 60s.

[jjb1970]

Indeed,  there are a number of manufacturing advantages. I suspect it is cheaper to also just configure software for those countries that still require speedometers to show mph. They have turned something for which the value to car manufacturers is lower production costs into a premium selling feature. Smart that. I don't mind digital instruments provided they are easily visible but I really don't think they are any better than conventional instruments. 

[black and decker boy]

23 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

Indeed,  there are a number of manufacturing advantages. I suspect it is cheaper to also just configure software for those countries that still require speedometers to show mph. They have turned something for which the value to car manufacturers is lower production costs into a premium selling feature. Smart that. I don't mind digital instruments provided they are easily visible but I really don't think they are any better than conventional instruments. 

Its certainly not better, just different. An EV doesn't need all of the same displays as an ICE - no temp gauge needed for example.

 

What the large screen & technology in the car does do well is the obstacle avoidance - the car has 360 degree radar & cameras so it displays other vehicles, kerbs \ hedges etc and cones in real time.

 

Its also great for the sat nav, much bigger display and the rear view camera when reversing is pretty useful as it fills the screen (so long as you keep the lens clean).

 

Tesla sales staff tell you the reason they fitted such a large screen is so you can watch TV whilst sat at a charging point. The car is fitted with 4G so you can use the web and watch live streaming when parked (its locked out whilst driving). my 5yr old thinks thats awesome!!

[30801]

3 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

Its certainly not better, just different. An EV doesn't need all of the same displays as an ICE - no temp gauge needed for example.

 

Battery temp is certainly a thing if your car doesn't have active thermal management.

[black and decker boy]

2 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

Battery temp is certainly a thing if your car doesn't have active thermal management.

Not information that the Tesla offers. Battery Range yes (symbol as you get on an iphone), but not temperature.