Electric, Hybrid and Alternative fuelled vehicles - News and Discussion

[boxbrownie]

30 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Looks like piss poor rust prevention methods when built haven't helped?

 

Mike.

Unfortunately Japanese cars were (and obviously still can be) very poorly protected from corrosion, Japan does not use salt on the roads in Winter it uses a chemical de-icer.......back in the early days I am sure we can all remember the rusted through Cherrys and Corollas, thankfully since RoW has been such a major market the Japanese auto industry caught up with corrosion protection, they had to to shake off the bad rep, but it looks like the I-Miev was built very much down to a price point, as being EV that early battery was very expensive, something had to give.

 

But good to see the battery wasn’t in bad condition, and of course living on Alderney all its life hasn’t helped the corrosion situation at all.

[boxbrownie]

On 25/03/2020 at 20:25, black and decker boy said:

I trialled the auto pilot feature recently, On a quiet road (Pre lockdown btw) , a bit unnerving at first as the car steers round bends and slows for hazards all by itself. Clearly it’s the future for us all but needs more refinement I think.

Hasn’t come on much then......back in the (as I recall) mid eighties we were involved with the EU funded Prometheus Project one of the aspects was autonomous driving vehicles, we had a Jaguar XJ with radar (real mil spec) controlled cruise and steering, the steering was a disaster and even the cruise was unnerving to say the least, it would cruise along at 70mph and the traffic in front would be slowing and us in this 2.5 ton (there was a LOT of equipment) Jag would hurtle up to the car in front and suddenly brake so hard I swear the guy in front would have eyes wide in the RVM with horror.....let alone the look on our faces......it worked though, never hit anything......well it was tested before being shown off on the road to the knobs from the EU delegation.

 

Lots of other projects though worked really, even the “plastic engine” in the Fiesta we drove around Brussels, many of the components on that engine pioneered the plastics (inlet manifolds, pumps etc) you see on cars today, good times back then, proper “let’s do that and see if it works” engineering 

[30801]

25 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

 it looks like the I-Miev was built very much down to a price point, as being EV that early battery was very expensive, something had to give.

 

I think the launch price was something like £30k

Citroen were selling their version for £12k at one point.

 

The Citroen one was more basic and lacked the Mitsubishi's extra-regen B mode. It did this by physically restricting the gear lever's travel. You could take off the plastic moulding, file the slot a bit longer and gain an extra gear which must be the most Citroen thing ever.

[Ron Ron Ron]

The point we can take from the video, is that the longevity of the EV batteries is not an issue.

The i-MiEV used what is now, old school battery tech from a decade ago.

That battery tech and energy management have moved a long way on since then and is continuing to develop.

 

 

 

.

[Karhedron]

This study thoroughly debunks the myth that electric cars are more polluting than ICEs once you take manufacturing into account (not that I have seen anyone here claiming that). In most countries they are already green and will become even more so as more renewable capacity is installed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51977625

[mozzer models]

& this is why I do not want a EV

 

[jjb1970]

I have heard a few issues around Tesla repairability. The problem does not seem to be that they cannot be repaired but rather the cost of repairs as a result of Tesla deliberate policies to control after sales support. So I wouldn't let it stop me buying a Tesla but it'd certainly be something I'd keep in mind if comparing Tesla to a more established automotive manufacturer alternative. What troubled me was that some of the reports were not related to the cars power train or control systems where it might be understandable for Tesla to retain tight control (whether or not we agree with it) but basic repairs to address knocks and bumps. 

[jjb1970]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

This study thoroughly debunks the myth that electric cars are more polluting than ICEs once you take manufacturing into account (not that I have seen anyone here claiming that). In most countries they are already green and will become even more so as more renewable capacity is installed.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-51977625

 

This is quite a contentious topic and there are other papers with different findings. It largely depends on how you do the life cycle analysis and certain system boundaries. I think BEVs are probably less damaging than gasoline or diesel ICE for GHG emissions but I think less damaging is more accurate than eco-friendly. In the long term I still think hydrogen FCEV will be a better long term solution.

What is undeniable is the benefit for local air quality. And the nicer driving experience of a very quiet car and the power/torque characteristics of the motor.

[30801]

59 minutes ago, mozzer models said:

& this is why I do not want a EV

 

 

Because an idiot made a YouTube video of him being an idiot?

The I-Pace has a range of over 200 miles so quite how many chargers he must have driven past to get to a broken 7kW on 6% I don't know.

 

People do like to add some fake drama to things. 60,000 miles in a car with a range of 80 miles on a good day and I have never had any of that nonsense.

[jjb1970]

When it was launched the gasoline powered Mitsubishi I was a very cleverly packaged and interesting car. I always liked it. However the electric version always seemed way too expensive for what it offered (not unusual for early examples of any technology, I remember in the 90's seeing 43" plasma TVs at over £15k) and by the end it felt like it had passed its shelf life. 

[298]

3 hours ago, mozzer models said:

& this is why I do not want a EV

 

 

Do you regularly decide to drive 500 miles in a day on a whim and without my any prior planning, nor have the intention to break your journey en route...? 

[mozzer models]

18 minutes ago, 298 said:

 

Do you regularly decide to drive 500 miles in a day on a whim and without my any prior planning, nor have the intention to break your journey en route...? 

I do not drive a car 

I use a van/pick up for work 

most places i park up for work Do not have chargers so would need to waste time charging up on my way home as it is i get home after 11pm

[Enterprisingwestern]

22 minutes ago, 298 said:

 

Do you regularly decide to drive 500 miles in a day on a whim and without my any prior planning, nor have the intention to break your journey en route...? 

 

But you could do it you so wished in an ICE car.

There are arguments for and against modifying your expectations just because of new technology.

 

Mike.

[30801]

23 minutes ago, jjb1970 said:

When it was launched the gasoline powered Mitsubishi I was a very cleverly packaged and interesting car. I always liked it. However the electric version always seemed way too expensive for what it offered (not unusual for early examples of any technology

 

Maybe it was too expensive to produce because it filled a proper city car hole in the market. Range was always a bit tight being 60ish miles and must be the only EV to get a smaller battery than when it was introduced. The original 16kWh pack being replaced IIRC by a 14kWh one albeit with the same range.

If they'd increased the range it would have been a much more useable car.

[jjb1970]

I think EVs have followed the same trajectory as most new transportation technologies. The first generation essentially proves the concept for people that really want to move. The subsequent generations steadily improve performance and usability whilst also reducing in cost. And as the transition gathers pace infrastructure changes and support services change, which in some ways is as important as the advantages and disadvantages of the asset itself. There is a transition point at which point the new technology becomes compelling at almost every level. Things like the diesel locomotive and jet engine followed a similar process from expensive novelty to dominance. 

 

 

[MPR]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

 

This is quite a contentious topic and there are other papers with different findings....

...In the long term I still think hydrogen FCEV will be a better long term solution.

My view is that the market will adopt BEVs in the end for almost all users.
In many ways a FCEV is just another type of hybrid, as there still needs to be a battery present to support the slowly varying output of the fuel cell. That additional complexity will always cost. Most of the reports I have seen also show a difference in total life cycle efficiency between BEV and FCEV heavily in BEV’s favour.* I wonder if we are just too attached to speed of refuelling as a requirement?

As the saying goes: “your mileage may vary” - literally true in this case, as it is the edge case that is defining the overall vehicle design requirements.

Beyond a certain number of miles per day/year, a well-maintained modern diesel is still the answer (for now). It’s just better to hire one occasionally if it is sensible. For everything else, moderate range BEVs, powered from renewals and as soon as possible please.

 

* taken with a suitable pinch of salt.

Edited March 27, 2020 by MPR
Spelling

[jjb1970]

The attractiveness of FCEVs isn't about an attachment to re-fuelling but more about long term sustainability. FC technology has also been advancing with much longer stack life and greater load responsiveness. The big issues for FCEVs are hydrogen infrastructure and hydrogen production. Previously fossil derived hydrogen had such a high emissions footprint that it was of no real benefit but the steady transition to zero emissions electricity generation and increasing efficiency of electrolysers is changing that. I know a few people in the European government and inter-governmental agencies who are increasingly worried that Asia may have guessed right by continuing to invest in hydrogen and seeing hydrogen as the better long term solution. Asia never bought into diesel engines as a good automotive idea (they developed diesels primarily for the European market) and I think they see BEVs as a transitional and not a long term technology. 

[Nick C]

Apparently the government have just released a paper suggesting that we should use our cars less and public transport more. That'd be the same government that's spent the last decade slashing public transport so that more and more people are forced to use cars...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52064509

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Apparently the government have just released a paper suggesting that we should use our cars less and public transport more. That'd be the same government that's spent the last decade slashing public transport so that more and more people are forced to use cars...

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-52064509

 

Not the same Govt. Just one formed from members of the same political party. And political parties do evolve.

[30801]

Looks like the Citigo has sold out. They only had four hundred though.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/skoda-citigo-e-iv-withdrawn-sale-due-high-demand

[boxbrownie]

55 minutes ago, 30801 said:

Looks like the Citigo has sold out. They only had four hundred though.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/skoda-citigo-e-iv-withdrawn-sale-due-high-demand

Well they weren’t going to sell many more in the next months.....for who knows how long.

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

Well they weren’t going to sell many more in the next months.....for who knows how long.

They probably can't get any more batteries. Waiting for the next production slot in China.

[boxbrownie]

9 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

They probably can't get any more batteries. Waiting for the next production slot in China.

Possibly, but even if they did their not selling any.....nobody is......showrooms shut online sales only, well that’ll keep Tesla happy 

 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

.....the're not selling any.....nobody is......showrooms shut online sales only, well that’ll keep Tesla happy 

 

 

Except that Tesla are halting production and scaling back for when production recommences at a later date.

So they won't have any cars to sell either.

 

 

.

[boxbrownie]

14 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

Except that Tesla are halting production and scaling back for when production recommences at a later date.

So they won't have any cars to sell either.

 

 

.

Well at least their all in the same boat then.......