Class 71 Sounds - authentic or generic?

[leopardml2341]

Hello folks,

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a DCC sound decoder available which features authentic class 71 sounds (i.e. including the sounds from the booster unit fitted to these locos)?

 

I've searched the web, but can't seem to find an answer. I think some Class 71 chips are really just the 'electric bit' of a class 73; these were not fitted with boosters.

Edited May 22, 2018 by leopardml2341

[Judge Dread]

Hello folks,

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a DCC sound decoder available which features authentic class 71 sounds (i.e. including the sounds from the booster unit fitted to these locos)?

 

I've searched the web, but can't seem to find an answer. I think some Class 71 chips are really just the 'electric bit' of a class 73; these were not fitted with boosters.

Try Charlie Petty at DC models. 

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/

 

You can judge if the sound is accurate here, 

 

I like it!

Edited May 23, 2018 by Judge Dread

[leopardml2341]

Try Charlie Petty at DC models.

http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/

Thanks, but I believe,that one is not recorded from a (the) class 71 but is the 'electric bit' of a 73. Edited May 22, 2018 by leopardml2341

[charliepetty]

Thanks, but I believe,that one is not recorded from a (the) class 71 but is the 'electric bit' of a 73.

The Class 71 Project we have is not from a Class 71 (As the preserved on does'nt work) but the Blowers are EE Class 83 Ones (Similar to the 71) The SR Air Whistle in from the Hastings Unit, The Compressor is a Standard SR one, Traction Motors are from SR EMUs, the preserved loco has one axle, with EMU disc wheels and a EMU Traction motor fitted. The Air system is Standard SR Electro Pneumatic and the control desk is standard SR English Electric as fitted to 73s.  The Pantograph noise & Pump is standard English Electric as the 83.

 

Hope this helps.     Charlie

[Mike Storey]

Hello folks,

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a DCC sound decoder available which features authentic class 71 sounds (i.e. including the sounds from the booster unit fitted to these locos)?

 

I've searched the web, but can't seem to find an answer. I think some Class 71 chips are really just the 'electric bit' of a class 73; these were not fitted with boosters.

 

No. Hope that helps.

[leopardml2341]

The Class 71 Project we have is not from a Class 71 (As the preserved on does'nt work) but the Blowers are EE Class 83 Ones (Similar to the 71) The SR Air Whistle in from the Hastings Unit, The Compressor is a Standard SR one, Traction Motors are from SR EMUs, the preserved loco has one axle, with EMU disc wheels and a EMU Traction motor fitted. The Air system is Standard SR Electro Pneumatic and the control desk is standard SR English Electric as fitted to 73s.  The Pantograph noise & Pump is standard English Electric as the 83.

 

Hope this helps.     Charlie

Thanks Charlie

 

I had discussed this with Biff sometime ago, and that's the clue (sometime) - i'd forgotten.

Rgds,

[leopardml2341]

No. Hope that helps.

Mike,

 

If you're saying "No there isn't one" then yes it does help.

 

But if you're saying "No I can't tell you" then some things are best left unsaid

Rgds 

[Tony Burgess]

Hello folks,

 

Can anyone tell me if there is a DCC sound decoder available which features authentic class 71 sounds (i.e. including the sounds from the booster unit fitted to these locos)?

 

I've searched the web, but can't seem to find an answer. I think some Class 71 chips are really just the 'electric bit' of a class 73; these were not fitted with boosters.

Just a thought - do you think any Continental locos had boosters like those used by the SR and BR(S) on them?  If so and you could consider fitting a Loksound decoder, there might be a file on their website from which you could copy that sound element.  Then that might be added to the assembly of suitable sound elements already mentioned.

I'm fairly well advanced on a 00gauge SR CoCo at the moment - old TOPS class 70, and modelling 20003 - but although having fitted a LS plate and 8-pin DCC-ready pcb, squeezing in a sound chip looks as if it would be challenging space wise.  But I had thought sometime to look for a booster sound file amongst the ESU offerings after I'd completed the body.  So I'd be pleased to hear if someone meets your need.

[leopardml2341]

Just a thought - do you think any Continental locos had boosters like those used by the SR and BR(S) on them?  If so and you could consider fitting a Loksound decoder, there might be a file on their website from which you could copy that sound element.  Then that might be added to the assembly of suitable sound elements already mentioned.

I'm fairly well advanced on a 00gauge SR CoCo at the moment - old TOPS class 70, and modelling 20003 - but although having fitted a LS plate and 8-pin DCC-ready pcb, squeezing in a sound chip looks as if it would be challenging space wise.  But I had thought sometime to look for a booster sound file amongst the ESU offerings after I'd completed the body.  So I'd be pleased to hear if someone meets your need.

Good idea, but afaik it's not possible to just add part of a sound file even with a Loksound programmer. The complete file needs to be written to the chip and I'm not in possession of the other elements. Writing any new file to the chip erases it's pre-decessor - unless you know otherwise?

 

Rgds,

[Mike Storey]

Mike,

 

If you're saying "No there isn't one" then yes it does help.

 

But if you're saying "No I can't tell you" then some things are best left unsaid

Rgds 

 

Andy

 

No, there isn't one. It was discussed at great length in the DJM thread when his 71 model was being developed, when I was thinking of buying one, but then decided to wait for the 74 instead. Silly me. The conclusion drawn was that no usable recordings exist, and that a sound chip would have to be synthesised from other sources, much as Charles has now described.

 

Hope you find a solution to your boosters.....

[E3109]

Surely there's a recording out there, from when 71001 was mainline certified up to 1993/1994?

 

Incidentally, one of my greatest railway regrets was not having a ride behind that lovely engine when I had the chance, sure I'm not alone in that either!

[charliepetty]

Surely there's a recording out there, from when 71001 was mainline certified up to 1993/1994?

 

Incidentally, one of my greatest railway regrets was not having a ride behind that lovely engine when I had the chance, sure I'm not alone in that either!

We have studied these for our 71 Poject from Legomanbiffo, as near as we can get it, booster apart.   Charlie

[Tony Burgess]

Good idea, but afaik it's not possible to just add part of a sound file even with a Loksound programmer. The complete file needs to be written to the chip and I'm not in possession of the other elements. Writing any new file to the chip erases it's pre-decessor - unless you know otherwise?

 

Rgds,

It can be done and is not difficult, and there must be a thousand or so WAV files available from ESU.  One of my projects was wanting a ver3.5 sound file for a Spamcan, and I used sound files from one of the very few UK-outline projects on the ESU website.  Unfortuneately, it is only for the later ver4 decoder.  I copied the files I wanted (and modified some in Audacity), and then imported them into a new ver3.5 project.  I got very well advanced with it, actually, before other things intervened (the story of my life - unfinished projects!).  And subsequently prioritised the 20003 scratchbuild.

 

I used the Lokprogrammer programme, and suspect that without it the WAV files could not be unpacked from the ESU file.

 

If anyone wants to explore you can freely download the Lokprogrammer software from here -

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/

and find the UK-outline files amongst the hundreds for US & Continental locos here -

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/1?type=all&order=date&country=gb

 

As an aside, my layout is analogue DC, and I use "DC Master" sound controllers which allow access to four DCC Functions on Broadway Limited and Loksound ver3.5 chipped locos - in addition to the motor or chuff etc sounds available.  (See http://www.broadway-limited.com/support/manuals/DCMaster%20Instruction%20Manual.pdf if inquisitive about the product, which also allows reading and writing CVs.  Brilliant).  Sadly when ESU developed their ver4 decoders, their ability to receive instructions from DC Master was no more.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Tony Burgess

[RAF96]

Be aware there are two versions of the ESU software, one for v3.x and one for v4.0 decoders.

The user interface for each is much different and refuses to recognise decoders other than those listed as supported (Hornby TTS can be read (very limited) in v3.x but not v4.0.

Rob

[leopardml2341]

It can be done and is not difficult.....

OK, thanks.

 

Have you actually added an additional sound clip 'in isolation' to others already loaded in the decoder?

 

That's the part I may be misunderstanding, I didn't think that you could do a partial 'write'? Moreover, carrying out the write function would overwrite the whole memory; fine if you have all the original files, but disastrous if you don't because you couldn't reinstate them?

 

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, and I can't try it out myself because I don't have a loksound programmer. If you can confirm that it is possible to add just one clip to a third party,i.e. not ESU, sound project without losing the third party sounds I might well invest in a programmer.

 

Maybe I've missed it in the manual?

 

Rgds,

Edited May 28, 2018 by leopardml2341

[Tony Burgess]

OK, thanks.

 

Have you actually added an additional sound clip 'in isolation' to others already loaded in the decoder?

 

That's the part I may be misunderstanding, I didn't think that you could do a partial 'write'? Moreover, carrying out the write function would overwrite the whole memory; fine if you have all the original files, but disastrous if you don't because you couldn't reinstate them?

 

Maybe I'm missing something fundamental, and I can't try it out myself because I don't have a loksound programmer. If you can confirm that it is possible to add just one clip to a third party,i.e. not ESU, sound project without losing the third party sounds I might well invest in a programmer.

 

Maybe I've missed it in the manual?

 

Rgds,

I see the point you are making.  I think you're right that if you don't have the data file of the project loaded into your decoder by your supplier, then you would not be able to add a further sound element to it, even if the decoder still had enough free memory to allow it.  So don't go out and buy the Lokprogrammer hardware just yet!

 

However, if you had a WAV file of the sound element which would really enhance the project, the company who sold you the decoder might be willing to incorporate it for you and re-blow your decoder.

 

The Lokprogrammer software is a free download.  It would take time listening to the demo sounds of all ESU's Continental & N American Electric locos, but if you heard anything sounding like a Class 71 booster you could then download the project file for the loco concerned and after loading it into the Lokprogrammer s/w copy out the WAV file(s) of the element you found.

 

If you go here, for example, you can play ESU's demonstration for the famous Swiss Krokodil loco:

http://projects.esu.eu/projectoverviews/1?page=4&count=10&order=date&type=all&country=ch&cat=1

 

We could start another topic running again by asking why N American & Continental markets have so many free Loksound files available, whereas we in UK are beholden to buying non-accessible files from the decoder suppliers..

[Tony Burgess]

I've been looking at some of the ESU Fan & Ventilator files, and it is really interesting to check them out.

 

To do so you need to download both the earlier version of Lokprogrammer s/w - ver 2.7.9 - (found here : http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/software/lokprogrammer/) and one of the sound files, say, 6184 (http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/generation-3/loksound-sound-library/).

 

1)  Open Lokprogrammer 2.7.9

2)  Choose "Open an existing project file" and click "Next"

3)  Use "Browse" to find sound file eg 6184 which carries the name 06184-LSV35-Single Sounds-Ventilators1.esu, then "Open" & "Next"

4)  Select "Sound" at the foot of the Left Hand Column options

5)  Now select "User Sounds".  At the top expect to see two rows of 8 boxes labelled Slots 1-16, 14 of which are blue.  At the right you should also see a list of individual WAV files, in groups of three eg 01 German Radiator VT11-5

6)  Click on one of the Blue boxes (expect to see the one chosen with a red outline) and a pop-up box appears showing the three related files.

7)  There are two symbols near the RH top corner of the pop-up box - the one coloured green plays the three files in turn - "init(ial)", "loop", and "exit".

8)  Check out these 14 options - I reckon one could use one or two of them to represent a Class 70 or 71 Booster.  ESU Files 6181 "Compressors" and 6205 "Ventilators2" would provide further possible options from which to choose.

 

With a knowledge of the situations when the Boosters "cut in" and the special skills it takes to create a sound project, as long as there is available memory on your decoder, the 3 chosen "Booster" WAV files could be incorporated.  One of the easiest ways of using the Booster would be to allocate it to a separate Function Key, the operator then deciding when to use it.

 

Be warned!  Building sound projects using Lokprogrammer has a steep learning curve, but is quite addictive.  Best place to start is by using a complete downloaded ESU sound project which you can then tinker with.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Tony Burgess

[Tony Burgess]

The Class 71 Project we have is not from a Class 71 (As the preserved on does'nt work) but the Blowers are EE Class 83 Ones (Similar to the 71) The SR Air Whistle in from the Hastings Unit, The Compressor is a Standard SR one, Traction Motors are from SR EMUs, the preserved loco has one axle, with EMU disc wheels and a EMU Traction motor fitted. The Air system is Standard SR Electro Pneumatic and the control desk is standard SR English Electric as fitted to 73s.  The Pantograph noise & Pump is standard English Electric as the 83.

 

Hope this helps.     Charlie

For anyone following this topic, I recently read the sentence below in the Mark Bowman paper "SR Co-Co Electric / BR Class 70 - The Southern Railway C-C Booster Electric Class 70 Locomotive".  I have also read somewhere that they were very noisy when eg passing through a station pulling a freight.

 

Even while stationary, Class 70 produced a noticeable droning noise due to the booster-set turning inside the body."

 

Re the Class 71s (early numbers E5000 on), Arthur Tayler in his "Lifetime in Traction" book says -

"The control gear for these locomotives was a logical development of the earlier Co-Co locomotives.  A single motor-generator booster set fed four fully suspended traction motors.."

 

As time allows I'll continue researching this; I feel a sound recording of either a Co-Co or Class 71 must exist somewhere.  And when time allows I will refresh my memory of what might be added to a sound project on a Loksound decoder when the original project file is not available.

[leopardml2341]

Certainly the 'booster' was continuously in operation and would form a distinctive and noticeable part of the whole 'soundscape' of the locomotive.

[clive s]

Certainly the 'booster' was continuously in operation and would form a distinctive and noticeable part of the whole 'soundscape' of the locomotive.

I remember seeing these in the 1970s on the Golden Arrow ( in it's last year ) /Night Ferry and other trains. One job they had was the Dover-Victoria TPO train  ...and the booster wasn't the noisiest thing...that was more of a gentle whine from what I remember  ...it was the traction motor blowers that were powerful and noisy.....when these pulled away from Tonbridge  all the loose news papers etc that was lying on the ground all rushed towards the loco and grilles. I used to wait at Tonbridge during 1974/1975 each evening  very frequently before catching my connection home to see the up TPO  arrive and depart.

 

Cheers

Clive