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Greater Anglia's Stadler Flirt - Class 745 & 755


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34 minutes ago, Bad79 said:

Maybe there should have been a slower change over from old to new there was too much hast to change with the old stock going and costs mounting up. When the Class 170 came into Eastanglia there was back up in the 150/153. However here there was nothing most had gone and the 37's when they had finished the RHTT were not re-hired on a spot basis  again i would suspect down to cost

 

i was going on what a previous poster had put to me, i also think GA had said this a couple of times

Is it not the case that most if not all the trains mentioned were built by companys who had experience with the uk market. Maybe with the Stadler the trust was too much and not fully understanding the uk market and systems

 

Yes, in an ideal world GA would have had the 153, 156 and 170 fleets longer for back up but I believe they didn't have any choice as to when those fleets departed. Not to mention the small issue of having the real estate to actually put new and old fleets while operating side by side. The 37's and MK2s couldn't have been used as they now don't meet the PRM requirements.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Bad79 said:

Maybe there should have been a slower change over from old to new there was too much hast to change with the old stock going and costs mounting up. When the Class 170 came into Eastanglia there was back up in the 150/153. However here there was nothing most had gone and the 37's when they had finished the RHTT were not re-hired on a spot basis  again i would suspect down to cost

 

i was going on what a previous poster had put to me, i also think GA had said this a couple of times

Is it not the case that most if not all the trains mentioned were built by companys who had experience with the uk market. Maybe with the Stadler the trust was too much and not fully understanding the uk market and systems

 

Bottom line is that GA were guilty of hyperbole about their fleet replacement.   It's not the first complete replacement and I thought they were keeping some Renatus 321s anyway.

 

It doesn't matter where the fleet comes from because new designs always have teething problems. 

Edited by DY444
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3 hours ago, stewartingram said:

When GN replaced the trains to Kings Lynn with 387s, it was a swift overnight replacement of all trains north of Ely (and possibly intended to include Cambridge as well, though there were a few nb trains that teminated at Ely that had some 365 use). There have been odd single workings of 365s, which are used elsewhere, but the changeover basically was overnight. But the units had previously been in use on Bedford services for a short while

 

That was just a diagramming decision at a timetable change.  387s appeared in dribs and drabs on GN services before that as drivers went through practical handling etc.

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The diesel loco operations around the delivery and rescue of the Flirts is something I'm curious about, if Skip will allow me to indulge...

 

So DBS supply traction and staff to get them dit to East Anglia Land, fine, and then Euro Phoenix supply Tractors to facilitate "re-aquisition of the asset" (rescue). With Rail Operations Group? Or are the EP 37s just hired in using DRS route and traction carded staff?

Without knowledge of the ins and outs, I find it hard to believe DRS wouldn't have been better suited to supply an off the shelf solution to fetching recalcitrant Stadlers, or are the EP Tractors fitted with the necessary coupling gubbins? As are DBS 66s?

 

My head hurts, C6T. 

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6 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

The diesel loco operations around the delivery and rescue of the Flirts is something I'm curious about, if Skip will allow me to indulge...

 

So DBS supply traction and staff to get them dit to East Anglia Land, fine, and then Euro Phoenix supply Tractors to facilitate "re-aquisition of the asset" (rescue). With Rail Operations Group? Or are the EP 37s just hired in using DRS route and traction carded staff?

Without knowledge of the ins and outs, I find it hard to believe DRS wouldn't have been better suited to supply an off the shelf solution to fetching recalcitrant Stadlers, or are the EP Tractors fitted with the necessary coupling gubbins? As are DBS 66s?

 

My head hurts, C6T. 

No need to worry about - cross-hire happens all the time and we don't know if GA a happen to have a recovery contract with a single operator or more than one.  Nor do we know which operators have locos and crews sitting around  ready to grab a chance on being first in the queue to make a few quid on a 'clear the line' job (where NR is entitled to take any resource it can in order to clear the line as quickly as possible).

 

The way I did for the company I worked for was to pick a suitable operator to provide power and a crew for recovery jobs where they were more likely to have locos and men available than we were.  That way I got a price which I negotiated in advance for a call-off contract rather than, in effect, going out on a spot hire job which would inevitably have cost more.  I negotiated a similar sort of arrangement for supplying recovery moves to another operator although I had a particular advantage in that I was the only other operator within a reasonable distance who could actually move one of their trains - and (without being greedy) my price reflected that.

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4 hours ago, Fenman said:


Hmm... if companies with experience in the U.K. market are so much better, why is GA’s brand-new Bombardier fleet so far behind schedule? At least the Stadlers are on the tracks (even if so many are stationary when they shouldn’t be).

 

I don’t think nationalism is the issue in this sorry saga. 

 

Paul

To be fair dont think Bombardier can been seen now as a uk wise company it is just i global company making money now. i dont belive we have any true companys left in th euk

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4 hours ago, admiles said:

 

Yes, in an ideal world GA would have had the 153, 156 and 170 fleets longer for back up but I believe they didn't have any choice as to when those fleets departed. Not to mention the small issue of having the real estate to actually put new and old fleets while operating side by side. The 37's and MK2s couldn't have been used as they now don't meet the PRM requirements.

 

 

i dont belive in the rail a number of tocs have met full PRM and is there any reason MKIII cars going off lease could not have been used ?  oh hold on COST

 

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The Europhoenix 37's are fitted with deliner (sp) couplings, so that they can couple directly with the Basils.

Now I'm guessing that the 37's are staffed by someone else (DRS?) but it may be that GA have actually trained some of their own staff to drive the 37's and so cut down the hire fee. This staffing arrangement will be one that I'm guessing we will never know. (If I was GA I'd want to use my own staff as much as possible).

 

Andy G

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2 minutes ago, Bad79 said:

i dont belive in the rail a number of tocs have met full PRM and is there any reason MKIII cars going off lease could not have been used ?  oh hold on COST

 

Yes I'd say cost. AFAIU the GA mk3's are not PRM fitted. I'm not sure if you could use them without derogation in a temporary capacity, and of course not all routes will be MK3 gauge cleared. Not as easy in the real world to run stuff like it is in our toy world....

 

Andy G

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38 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

No need to worry about - cross-hire happens all the time and we don't know if GA a happen to have a recovery contract with a single operator or more than one.  Nor do we know which operators have locos and crews sitting around  ready to grab a chance on being first in the queue to make a few quid on a 'clear the line' job (where NR is entitled to take any resource it can in order to clear the line as quickly as possible).

 

The way I did for the company I worked for was to pick a suitable operator to provide power and a crew for recovery jobs where they were more likely to have locos and men available than we were.  That way I got a price which I negotiated in advance for a call-off contract rather than, in effect, going out on a spot hire job which would inevitably have cost more.  I negotiated a similar sort of arrangement for supplying recovery moves to another operator although I had a particular advantage in that I was the only other operator within a reasonable distance who could actually move one of their trains - and (without being greedy) my price reflected that.

I'm less than worried Mike, just curious. 

 

By the way, when's that book coming out on how you tried to run a railway Chief? It'd save me asking inane questions... 

 

C6T. 

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1 minute ago, russ p said:

ROG are hiring Drivers when they cant cover the turns. Not done one yet dreading sitting at colchester for nearly 11 hours on the standby loco 

So they do have route carded staff in-house then Russ?

 

C6T. 

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38 minutes ago, Classsix T said:

I'm less than worried Mike, just curious. 

 

By the way, when's that book coming out on how you tried to run a railway Chief? It'd save me asking inane questions... 

 

C6T. 

I was speaking to a forner boss of mine a couple of weeks back and he said I could always leave out the bad ones.  Trouble is that would spoil one or too good stories where there were those who didn't know how to laugh at themselves.

Edited by The Stationmaster
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51 minutes ago, Bad79 said:

To be fair dont think Bombardier can been seen now as a uk wise company it is just i global company making money now. i dont belive we have any true companys left in th euk


To be fair to whom? I was just quoting your words about “companies with experience of the U.K. market”, not claiming that any of GA’s fleet manufacturers were “British”. Bombardier is of course Canadian-owned.

 

But it seems the Swiss-owned company with no experience of the U.K. market was much faster to delivery than the Canadian-owned company that’s probably supplied more trains to the U.K. market than anyone else. 
 

Paul

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12 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I was speaking to a forner boss of mine a couple of weeks back and he said I could always leave out the bad ones.  Trouble is that would spoil one or too good stories where there were those who didn't know how to laugh at themselves.

So you are putting out feelers to the possibility of maybe perhaps...?

 

Please do Mike!

 

C6T. Sorry Dave, I've been bugging Mike for a book for ages, much to his chagrin undoubtedly... 

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47 minutes ago, Fenman said:


To be fair to whom? I was just quoting your words about “companies with experience of the U.K. market”, not claiming that any of GA’s fleet manufacturers were “British”. Bombardier is of course Canadian-owned.

 

But it seems the Swiss-owned company with no experience of the U.K. market was much faster to delivery than the Canadian-owned company that’s probably supplied more trains to the U.K. market than anyone else. 
 

Paul

 

It may be Canadian owned but its products were evolutions of BR designs 

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On 26/01/2020 at 20:19, great central said:

 

At least that one almost looks like it's been cleaned unlike, I think, 156909 pictured here at Nottingham on the 20th. 156912 has had the vinyls scraped off in places showing previous paint colours, Central trains green and possibly RR pale grey as well

IMG_20200120_124922723.jpg.17e6887901a0ec868d28262297695d8d.jpg

Saw that pass through Peterborough today 

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4 hours ago, russ p said:

ROG are hiring Drivers when they cant cover the turns. Not done one yet dreading sitting at colchester for nearly 11 hours on the standby loco 

You can always come over to the PSB Russ and have a tour and a brew to pass the time, beats sitting in the sudbury dock counting sheep.....or watching Netflix ;)

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Its 06:22, as I type, and already 2R00 and 2D66 have failed requiring full reboots of the on board software. 2E70 failed but was then reinstated and is now running 26late and the same for 2j61 which is 17 late.

Not looking good again today.

Apparently the units all needed new updates but they failed to download and it's now causing all kinds of issues. 

 

Thanks

Edited by Siggie in the east
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10 hours ago, russ p said:

 

It may be Canadian owned but its products were evolutions of BR designs 


That makes it worse, doesn’t it? If Bombardier’s products are just developments of ancient designs (BR disappeared a quarter-century ago), *and* it knows the UK market better than any other company, why are its trains so very late compared to the delivery schedule?

Still, we can hope that they’ll be faster to settle in than the admittedly more complex Flirts (though the reliability tables in Modern Railways don’t look hopeful).

 

Paul

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More cancellations due to failure.

2J63 has limped back to Norwich. His outgoing service 1K65 has been cancelled. And the knock on effect from shuffling units around means that 2P12 is cancelled and running as 1K65 instead.

That means we've had a 2Rxx,2Dxx,2Exx,2Jxx and a 2Pxx all cancelled and/or failed.....do I shout full house or Bingo :)

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1 hour ago, Fenman said:


That makes it worse, doesn’t it? If Bombardier’s products are just developments of ancient designs (BR disappeared a quarter-century ago), *and* it knows the UK market better than any other company, why are its trains so very late compared to the delivery schedule?

Still, we can hope that they’ll be faster to settle in than the admittedly more complex Flirts (though the reliability tables in Modern Railways don’t look hopeful).

 

Paul

 

Bombardier have "form" currently when it comes to delivering new stock on time. The new low-floor trams for Toronto being a case in point.

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