RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted May 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 12, 2019 6 hours ago, justin1985 said: What on earth has the place it was designed got to do with it? The whole point of the diesel "shorty" module, rather than under floor engines, and of the articulation, is to allow a low floor and maximum accessibility. The fact is that this is the first design for the UK network that has caught up with things like accessibility that have been standard on units in other parts of Europe for 10 or 20 years. The more I've seen of these units leading up to their introduction, the more I'm looking forward to travelling in them regularly! Beg to differ, the Metrolink trams of the early 1990’s had maximum accessibility and close to platform edge access. How does a low floor help, unlike Europe almost all the UKs platforms are of a similar raised height level. The point was raised earlier, these look like sleepy branch line stock, not commuter stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, adb968008 said: The point was raised earlier, these look like sleepy branch line stock, not commuter stock. That's exactly what they are. GA placed a large order with Bombardier for new commuter stock. They look like they'll be very well suited to that kind of traffic, too. The lack of underfloor engines will make them a much more pleasant place to sit than the various DMUs that they're replacing. (Though if they've gone for modern cheap seats that'll undo some of the benefit). 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stivesnick Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 On 11/05/2019 at 08:44, Zomboid said: Is the seating capacity published anywhere? Must be, but I haven't seen it. I would expect the 3/4 car versions to be pretty rare in London once the fleet replacement is complete, given that they were bought for the various branches around East Anglia. The 12 car EMU versions for inter city style services to Stansted and Norwich, and the Bombardier order is for the London-centric commuter runs. There is a requirement in the franchise for some through services from London to Lowestoft - likely to be 2 x 4 car units from London with one unit splitting at Ipswich to run to Lowestoft - what happens to the other unit is not clear - could run to Norwich as the third London-Norwich service each hour. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, adb968008 said: How does a low floor help, unlike Europe almost all the UKs platforms are of a similar raised height level. Have you seen families, tourists, etc. trying to heave suitcases, prams, pushchairs (and combinations thereof) on and off a MK3? Or indeed, a 156. Not a pretty sight. I travel London-Colchester about 3 times a week and I can certainly say that improved accessibility will be a boon for a lot more people than just those with reduced mobility. People seem to be forgetting about the different fleets being discussed here. The 745s - 12 car EMUs, and 755s the DEMUs of 3 or 4 cars. Yes, the 755s are for sleepy-ish branchlines, and the 745s are for intercity services with limited stops - not really commuter services. Very very similar trains are used very successfully for open access intercity services that compete on quality in e.g. Sweden (MTR Express) and Czechia (LEO Express). The part missing from this thread is that Greater Anglia have a large parallel order for class 720 EMUs from Bombardier, which are directly derived from the (delayed) Overground 710s and similar to the Crossrail 345s. These are the true suburban units, for the actual suburban routes, and have 1/3 2/3 doors etc. I'm guessing it's these that will form the handful of GA King's Lynn services, rather than the Stansted 745s? Is there another thread about the 720s? 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, justin1985 said: ... The part missing from this thread is that Greater Anglia have a large parallel order for class 720 EMUs from Bombardier, which are directly derived from the (delayed) Overground 710s and similar to the Crossrail 345s. These are the true suburban units, for the actual suburban routes, and have 1/3 2/3 doors etc. I'm guessing it's these that will form the handful of GA King's Lynn services, rather than the Stansted 745s? ... What a miserable prospect for the 2+ hour journey between Liverpool Street and King's Lynn. It's going to be an utterly depressing journey. In the 21st century, is this really the best we can do? Paul 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Just remember, it's not about the journey, it's about the number of seats that can be squeezed in to tick the boxes on the DaFT spreadsheets. It doesn't matter if they are only able to be used by a stick insect dwarf, it's the numbers they can publicly pronounce to everyone their journey into London will be better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin1985 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Fenman said: What a miserable prospect for the 2+ hour journey between Liverpool Street and King's Lynn. It's going to be an utterly depressing journey. In the 21st century, is this really the best we can do? Paul Doesn't look much different to the existing 379s to me, and certainly better than a Thameslink 700 : There are plenty of other odd-ball not quite suburban, but certainly not intercity, routes like King's Lynn that have much worse units than these - plenty of two hour plus journeys on 156 and even 150 Sprinters still out there. Kings' Lynn is always going to be just an extension of a suburban service - there is no way near the demand to justify a dedicated Intercity service for the handful of passengers travelling the whole way. Perhaps if Stansted was a through station rather than a spur, it could be different, as per GatEx extended to Brighton, but any operator just has to balance service to the demand across the network they actually have. In terms of best we can do in the 21st century though, the Intercity FLIRT can be up there with the best - if the GA ones are any less comfortable than the Swedish MTR ones, then its a result of penny-pinching in the franchise process, not any problem with the concept or design of the units themselves Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 14 hours ago, mdvle said: Appears to be branding/marketing. If you go to their website you will see several images of the rabbit visiting places they serve, and there is a video showing the same thing with the rabbit leaping into place above the name at the end. I can see them now I've been to the website. And with those ears it could be a hare come to think of it. Perhaps we should dub the units "Hartleys" after the hare in the 1970s children's TV series "Pipkins" (younger viewers might have to sak their grandparents about that, or Wikipedia it) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) It's a Hare and forms part of AGAs new marketing. Puzzled me too, Hares are all over my local station station. Cannot say I have ever seen much line side....another PR-over-sense exercise it appears! I imagine the issue is, as the brand has effectively been called Greater Anglia since 2012 - to relaunch the brand without changing the name (as its a DfT brand) you have to think of a gimmick aka the hare. Quote The brown hare, with its characteristic long, black tipped ears, is a very familiar sight in East Anglia, often seen swiftly leaping over ploughed fields on its long hind legs. Indeed, the region is one of the hare’s last strongholds as its UK population has been declining since the 1960s. https://www.greateranglia.co.uk/about-us/news-desk/blog-post/greater-anglia-chooses-hare-icon-new-era-rail-travel-in-east-anglia Edited May 12, 2019 by 159220 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) 59 minutes ago, 159220 said: “It's a Hare ... Cannot say I have ever seen much line side....” Maybe you’re not looking? Here was one nosy chap in East Anglia earlier today. Edited May 12, 2019 by Fenman My failure to understand the new image uploading system 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Thanks for the gen, I like it. When I lived in Norfolk I lived next to a field and hares were often seen running around it. Very distinctive compared to the rabbits I usually see here in Fairbourne. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Obviously someone in Abellio has a connection to March 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 8 hours ago, justin1985 said: Doesn't look much different to the existing 379s to me, and certainly better than a Thameslink 700 : There are plenty of other odd-ball not quite suburban, but certainly not intercity, routes like King's Lynn that have much worse units than these - plenty of two hour plus journeys on 156 and even 150 Sprinters still out there. Kings' Lynn is always going to be just an extension of a suburban service - there is no way near the demand to justify a dedicated Intercity service for the handful of passengers travelling the whole way. Perhaps if Stansted was a through station rather than a spur, it could be different, as per GatEx extended to Brighton, but any operator just has to balance service to the demand across the network they actually have. On the much lauded Japanese railway system it doesn't take too much effort to find worse. You can spend nearly 2 hours on a train with transverse seating and no toilets - I know, because I did (This was a private railway rather than JR, but I certainly saw similar longish distance offerings from JR that I wasn't travelling on in the area around Tokyo). Kings Lynn to Liverpool Street really does fall between two stools, being a matter of a few trains per day, via a bunch of places that don't justify intercity services (except Cambridge, which has regular non stop trains to kings cross), and via the West Anglia route which isn't really that quick. The only real answer is to use the same trains that run the regular outer suburban trains to Cambridge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted May 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 12, 2019 (edited) Seen on Saturday just approaching Norwich station: from my seat on this earlier generation DEMU: Wonder if there will be any of the Stadler units around in 50 years time: Keith Edited May 12, 2019 by tetsudofan added comment 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 16 hours ago, wombatofludham said: Perhaps we should dub the units "Hartleys" after the hare in the 1970s children's TV series "Pipkins" (younger viewers might have to sak their grandparents about that, or Wikipedia it) If I ever find myself 'jammed' in on one, I shall be thinking of a less complimentary name for them! C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted May 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2019 One unit has now made it to King's Lynn. It was under the cover of darkness mind..... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 1 hour ago, uax6 said: One unit has now made it to King's Lynn. It was under the cover of darkness mind..... Intriguing. I thought KL was only going to have service by the crush-loading Bombardiers, not these nice-looking Flirts? Incidentally, I'm not sure why KL has such a poor reputation (although, in fairness, it does have one of the lowest levels of adult educational attainment of anywhere in the entire country. Er...). Anyway, where else so close to London can you buy an entire Queen Ann townhouse for £250k? Maybe there's a reason for that. Paul 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 It will be interesting to read the comments once they are in service then we will know just what they are actually like in service,like the hare logo but not the rest of livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 My totally uninformed opinion would be that KL-LLS will normally be served by 720s, but GA are covering their bases by getting the flirts cleared for the route. Just in case - much like how SWT had Salisbury to Plymouth cleared for 170s, even though they didn't intend using them that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
159220 Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 12 hours ago, Zomboid said: (This was a private railway rather than JR, but I certainly saw similar longish distance offerings from JR that I wasn't travelling on in the area around Tokyo). A common misconception there, the main companies (by size and profit) of the Japanese Railways Group (branded JR) are privatised and listed on the stock exchange (JR West, Central & East). The Japanese Government has been selling its shares in JR Kyushu but retains the JR Hokkaido, Shinkoku & Freight through a holding company, 100% owned by the government. The JR Hokkaido has recently announced a 50% closure of lines/services to reduce costs! Thus, it could be concluded that the private railways of Japan are flourishing and the state, not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted May 13, 2019 Share Posted May 13, 2019 Yeah, I knew that JR was privatised, but the other companies (odakyu railway, keihan railway and the like) seem to be referred to as "private railways" in guide books, I guess as a way to distinguish from the JR group. Running trains in a place like Hokkaido doesn't look like it'd be profitable, no matter who owns them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Still from video of 66001 headed delivery of three units thru Stow at 07:40 this morning. C6T. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 16, 2019 66001 + 755417/326/418 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siggie in the east Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 755326 is the first 3 car to arrive. I missed it coming past colchester psb as the col workstation siggie didnt tell us it was coming until it had gone past the window Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 Good to see the new arrivals when are they in service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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