Greater Anglia's Stadler Flirt - Class 745 & 755

[LNERGE]

Arriving at the Sidings. 

[298]

11 hours ago, beast66606 said:

First pair of 755s moved onto the Mid Norfolk Railway for warm storage today

 

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell does this sign mean? No Vultures?

 

 

 

 

[Covkid]

1 hour ago, 298 said:

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell does this sign mean? No Vultures?

 

 

 

 

 

Has this railway been used for leaf fall skidpan training ?

Looks like a sign denoting the end of leaf fall something or other.

[Pete 75C]

7 hours ago, 298 said:

 

Pardon my ignorance, but what the hell does this sign mean? No Vultures?

 

 

6 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

Has this railway been used for leaf fall skidpan training ?

Looks like a sign denoting the end of leaf fall something or other.

 

"Low Rail Adhesion Termination"

The vertical centre hinge allows the sign to be closed when not applicable.

 

Although, tbh, I prefer the "no vultures" theory...

 

Edit: See here, about midway down the page: http://www.railsigns.uk/sect23page1/sect23page1.html

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Pete 75C

[russ p]

It never gets closed though, probably seized up by now!

[beast66606]

Gissing

30 May 2019

66002 and 745002 on 5Q99, 03:43, Ripple Lane Exch Sdgs - Norwich C.PT. T.&R.S.M.D (08:23) - first intercity set

 

[uax6]

I noticed that the 'bunny' has now started to be used on local telly here in the East as an advert theme.

 

Andy G

[beast66606]

Another unit for warm storage

 

Wymondham

05 June 2019

37800, Cassiopeia, and 745002 on 5Q61, 09:15, Norwich C.PT. T.&R.S.M.D - Mid-norfolk Railway Siding (10:17) - for warm storage

 

[ess1uk]

On 22/05/2019 at 02:31, david.hill64 said:

Why? It is going to be years before the wayside ETCS infrastructure is in place everywhere. Onboard ETCS hardware will change (even if the interfaces don't). If you fit the kit now it will likely be obsolete by the time you need to turn it on. Unless you are sure that your new trains are going to be working over ETCS routes in the next 5 years I would save the money until it's needed.

For go anywhere locos (freight) it makes sense to be doing the fitments now, which is why it is happening, but for passenger trains confined to rural backwaters no sense at all.

I agree to a certain point but reading this

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2018/06/28/what-is-digital-ready/

it seems it’s a requirement 

[St. Simon]

On ‎22‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 02:31, david.hill64 said:

Why? It is going to be years before the wayside ETCS infrastructure is in place everywhere. Onboard ETCS hardware will change (even if the interfaces don't). If you fit the kit now it will likely be obsolete by the time you need to turn it on. Unless you are sure that your new trains are going to be working over ETCS routes in the next 5 years I would save the money until it's needed.

For go anywhere locos (freight) it makes sense to be doing the fitments now, which is why it is happening, but for passenger trains confined to rural backwaters no sense at all.

 

Hi,

 

Going way off topic, but, actually the major problem in the UK that is 'preventing' ETCS is the fitting of the trains, once you have the fitted trains, it's not all that a massive leap to ETCS.

 

So if you can totally replace the fleet with one that has ETCS, much like Anglia are doing, then you can speed up the installation immensely and it makes it worth while. 

 

Simon

[david.hill64]

18 hours ago, ess1uk said:

I agree to a certain point but reading this

https://www.railengineer.co.uk/2018/06/28/what-is-digital-ready/

it seems it’s a requirement 

Actually the article doesn't state that having the equipment fitted is a requirement but that the trains and infrastructure must be ready to accept it. My understanding is that trains are fitted with the rack space and essential interface equipment but not necessarily the ETCS racks themselves.

But I am not currently engaged in UK train acceptance so really don't know what is being done.

[david.hill64]

16 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Hi,

 

Going way off topic, but, actually the major problem in the UK that is 'preventing' ETCS is the fitting of the trains, once you have the fitted trains, it's not all that a massive leap to ETCS.

 

So if you can totally replace the fleet with one that has ETCS, much like Anglia are doing, then you can speed up the installation immensely and it makes it worth while. 

 

Simon

As someone who has been working on signalling upgrade schemes for the last ten years, I have to admire your optimism!

[Classsix T]

Another delivery this morning, I should think 66002 knows the way by itself!

C6T. 

[Baby Deltic]

More uncomfortable plastic junk. They should do a modern 309 with the same level of comfort.

[St. Simon]

2 hours ago, david.hill64 said:

As someone who has been working on signalling upgrade schemes for the last ten years, I have to admire your optimism!

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not easy, the ETCS on the Western is testament to that, but the first hurdle is getting all the trains fitted!

 

Simon

[Fenman]

2 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

More uncomfortable plastic junk. They should do a modern 309 with the same level of comfort.

 

Intriguing. The review I read in Modern Railways (where a GA Stadler was sitting alongside the same type of unit ordered for (was it?) Austrian railways) was that the GA unit was very Spartan, appearing cheap and cold, whereas the Austrian unit was very comfortable with all sorts of passenger amenities (including vending machines). The nice man from Stadler explained that the fit out was entirely the customer's choice - which I take to mean that if the GA units are "plastic junk", well, that is what GA and DfT think is all you as a passenger are worth.

 

Then again, I haven't had the opportunity to ride on them, so I can't really pass comment. I take it from your definitive-sounding statement that you have?

 

Paul 

[caradoc]

2 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

More uncomfortable plastic junk. They should do a modern 309 with the same level of comfort.

 

Have you been on one then ? In that case perhaps you can give us a full description of what you believe is wrong with these trains.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, Fenman said:

 

Intriguing. The review I read in Modern Railways (where a GA Stadler was sitting alongside the same type of unit ordered for (was it?) Austrian railways) was that the GA unit was very Spartan, appearing cheap and cold, whereas the Austrian unit was very comfortable with all sorts of passenger amenities (including vending machines). The nice man from Stadler explained that the fit out was entirely the customer's choice - which I take to mean that if the GA units are "plastic junk", well, that is what GA and DfT think is all you as a passenger are worth.

 

Then again, I haven't had the opportunity to ride on them, so I can't really pass comment. I take it from your definitive-sounding statement that you have?

 

Paul 

Simple really isn't - the customer will get from Stadler what they specify and pay for. (provided DafT will let them).

[rodent279]

56 minutes ago, Fenman said:

 

Intriguing. The review I read in Modern Railways (where a GA Stadler was sitting alongside the same type of unit ordered for (was it?) Austrian railways) was that the GA unit was very Spartan, appearing cheap and cold, whereas the Austrian unit was very comfortable with all sorts of passenger amenities (including vending machines). The nice man from Stadler explained that the fit out was entirely the customer's choice - which I take to mean that if the GA units are "plastic junk", well, that is what GA and DfT think is all you as a passenger are worth.

 

Then again, I haven't had the opportunity to ride on them, so I can't really pass comment. I take it from your definitive-sounding statement that you have?

 

Paul 

Certainly my experience of similar modern stock in Germany was that they are smooth, quiet and comfortable. Mk1's are noisy and full of charisma, but that's all. Not really something we want to be building 50yrs on.

 

Every now and then, someone will come up to me when I'm working on my Morris Minor and waffle on about how they "don't make them like that anymore" and other meaningless bollox. I usually shut them up by saying no, they wouldn't dare build them like this anymore, and good thing too, because

A) no one would want them, and

B) I'd like to think we've learnt a thing or two about building things in general, cars in particular, over the last half century.

 

Building trains like 309's would be like building a new Morris Minor and pretending it's as good as a modern supermini. 

[Titan]

3 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

More uncomfortable plastic junk. They should do a modern 309 with the same level of comfort.

 

Bet a 309 could do Norwich in 90 too, especially in 10 car form with Griddle. Progress eh?!  

 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Titan

[Shed]

3 hours ago, St. Simon said:

 

Don't get me wrong, it's not easy, the ETCS on the Western is testament to that, but the first hurdle is getting all the trains fitted!

 

Simon

but hasnt Western got shiney new IETs that are fitted?

i guess its all the other stuff still running around?

 

[St. Simon]

4 minutes ago, Shed said:

but hasnt Western got shiney new IETs that are fitted?

i guess its all the other stuff still running around?

 

 

Yep, the IETs have ETCS fitted as do the Class 345s, but the 165s, 332s, 360s and 387s don't.

 

The other problem on the Western is the transitions between systems (CBTC - ETCS - TPWS in some cases), but from what I understand this is a train thing again, the lineside infrastructure is installed and is working as expected.

 

Simon

[admiles]

3 hours ago, Fenman said:

 

 

Then again, I haven't had the opportunity to ride on them, so I can't really pass comment. I take it from your definitive-sounding statement that you have?

 

Paul 

 

It's been noticeable that some people have greeted the arrival of these Swiss-built units with a.....how shall I word this?......a slightly bigoted and uninformed view. I suspect just because they're not built in the UK. 

 

All I can say to that is each to their own. I tend to give things a chance before slating them. After-all none of these units are in service yet so with the exception of a few GA staff possibly, no one has any idea how comfortable (or not) they are. To claim otherwise just seems a bit stupid to me.

 

I'm sure as enthusiasts we'd all like the 90's and Mk3s to continue but times change and things move on. Nowt we can do about that.

[Fenman]

3 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

It's been noticeable that some people have greeted the arrival of these Swiss-built units with a.....how shall I word this?......a slightly bigoted and uninformed view. I suspect just because they're not built in the UK. 

 

All I can say to that is each to their own. I tend to give things a chance before slating them. After-all none of these units are in service yet so with the exception of a few GA staff possibly, no one has any idea how comfortable (or not) they are. To claim otherwise just seems a bit stupid to me.

 

I'm sure as enthusiasts we'd all like the 90's and Mk3s to continue but times change and things move on. Nowt we can do about that.

 

I’m with you. The Mk3s were very, very tired when I last used them a couple of months ago. The Stadlers will have to be very grim indeed not to be - at least in some respects - an improvement. I’m looking forward to trying them. 

 

Paul

[wombatofludham]

5 hours ago, Baby Deltic said:

More uncomfortable plastic junk. They should do a modern 309 with the same level of comfort.

Exactly what enthusiasts were saying back in 1975 when the HSTs were introduced.  "Uncomfortable seats that don't lone up with windows", "Smelly brakes" "Not enough seats" "No compartments" were all the complaints raised by the Gricerati upset by their replacing their beloved Westerns, Hoovers and later Deltics (all of which of course were hated in turn by the Kettleistas back in the 60s when they replaced their beloved mobile tea urns).  Of course the public flocked to them seemingly oblivious to the hard IC70 seats, brakes that smelt of burning when applied or the fact they may be sat next to a solid piece of metal or subjected to the noisy conversations of their neighbours and their obnoxious brats.  The speed, and the appeal and cachet of new racy go faster-striped trains trumped their perceived shortcomings from dewy eyed nostalgists.

 

Fast forward 40 years and the HSTs attract crowds to farewell railtours of dewy eyed nostalgists convinced that they were never hated by enthusiasts and deriding their replacements as plastic rubbish with hard seats, a lack of accommodation, etc.  Plus ca change.

 

I bet in 40 years time current younger enthusiasts will be moaning about the next generation of trains, complaining that their bionic duckweed warp motors don't growl like the old diesels, that the magnetic levitation seats are too hard, that they don't like the weight saving video projection windows and prefer real glass, and the 3d printed meals from the buffet cupboard aren't a match on real microwave ping meals, whilst paying to ride the last Class 802 out of Plymouth as the last of the real trains on the Great Western.

 

At the same time, the normal who are the real market for the Anglia bionic bunnies will love them, being the first truly modern brand new fleet in Anglia for decades.  Given the real competition for the new Bunnies is the like of First's X1 which routinely gets upgraded with new vehicles every couple of years, all equipped with leather seats and increasingly wi-fi, or the family car which often gets upgraded on a two to three year cycle, and now are fully connected, both of which have inferior legroom to most trains, for once the regional Anglia services will have not only the advantage of speed and avoiding traffic problems, but also a brand new 21st century product to more than match the road based competition.