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Ron Ron Ron

Greater Anglia's Stadler Flirt - Class 745 & 755

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I have seen a photo somewhere of the 'power car' standing alone; the diesel engines are relatively small, giving a gangway about the same as a normal one.

 

The Railway Gazette video that Ron Ron Ron posted shows the "power pack" from the ends, and then a walk through it at about 0:50. It looks pretty claustrophobic! 

 

It might be the fact that the corridor connectors expand out to be much wider than normal at the top, in a kind of "upside down pear" shape, that makes it look like they're quite narrow at the bottom. Or are they actually quite narrow at the bottom? With the articulation and the low floor, the corridor obviously has to fit in between the inside of the wheelsets etc. Perhaps its a trick of the eye, but it doesn't look like you'd get a wheelchair through there?

 

The 3 cars will have 3 passenger carriages and an engine module.

 

Looking at the video again, I see there is a diagram showing this at 1:03. I guess part of the point is there is a standard driving car with no panto, a standard panto car with no cab, and then additional "normal" passenger cars and diesel power pack to suit each type - a 2 car train would need the pantograph on a driving car (shades of class 309!).

 

Can't help thinking it will be "interesting" operating this on lines with very short platforms!

 

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The Power Pack is slightly wider than the rest of the unit, by about 10cm each side, so perhaps that’s how they ensure the access remains wide enough?

 

Tom.

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The Power Pack is slightly wider than the rest of the unit, by about 10cm each side, so perhaps that’s how they ensure the access remains wide enough?

 

Tom.

 

I'm not convinced that compliance with the TSI for accessibility means that every part of the train must be accessible from every other.  If the minimum customer access and service requirements (wheelchair space, toilet access, First Class and trolley point [where offered] ) can be guaranteed in one side of the train, then a wheelchair throughway in the power module is not essential.

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The Electrostars on the Fenline are much livelier than the 365s they replaced last year. It’s the violently lurching lateral movement that seems to be the big problem (it seems to be a particular problem on this line as it drifts between single and double track).

 

Without being too vulgar, gents will find it impossible to use the toilet with any degree of accuracy in some places. Which is pretty disgusting for all concerned.

 

Paul

An issue here is globalisation and the consequent reliance on ‘centres of excellence ‘. Bombardier for example moved bogie design from uk. Arguably the best bogie designer in Europe was based in Derby but lost out due to internal politics. So while the bogie designs work well on highly maintained track, they are not so good on standard BR track. BR worked out a long time ago that it was cheaper to put money into bogie design and let track have greater tolerances on alignment.

 

The BR spec for the mark 4 coach required it to ride as well at 140mph as a Mark 3 at 125mph. SIG were amazed that a mark 3 coach rode as well as it did. The mark 4 never met the ride comfort of a mark 3 at 125mph, but it might have been better at 140mph. Mark 3’s are not very good at 90mph which was problematic for the cross country HST sets when introduced.

 

There are also well reported issues with Siemens trains with bogie designs that are perfectly acceptable on German track.

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A prime example of how modern trains ride much worse than their predecessors is on the Lynn line those bombardier units with rock hard seats are awful across it banging and lurching all over while their spiritual ancestors the 365 s rode lovely over the same track

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These do look nice, and a cut above most of the other MU trains being built, nice to see an articulated train too. Hopefully Stadler will manage to get ride quality right and deliver a train that you can feel comfortable about leaving a drink on a table without holding the cup continuously, take a whiz in the bog while standing up and hitting the target and use a device to write documents without getting so hacked off at missing keys as the train jolts from side to side that you give up. Or in other words, something that rides better than a 350.

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Interesting comments on the Class 350 jjb1970; One of the worst journeys (in terms of riding) I have experienced recently was sitting at one end of a 350 vehicle on the WCML from Carlisle to Glasgow C. Yet on Monday this week I made the same journey, this time in the centre of a 350 vehicle, and the ride was perfectly fine. Can one's position in the coach have such a major influence, or was it just one unit in better condition than the other ? It certainly wasn't the track to blame, anyway !

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Interesting comments on the Class 350 jjb1970; One of the worst journeys (in terms of riding) I have experienced recently was sitting at one end of a 350 vehicle on the WCML from Carlisle to Glasgow C. Yet on Monday this week I made the same journey, this time in the centre of a 350 vehicle, and the ride was perfectly fine. Can one's position in the coach have such a major influence, or was it just one unit in better condition than the other ? It certainly wasn't the track to blame, anyway !

I have also found significant variability in their ride, and for some weird reason the 350/2 series seem worse than the 350/1 and 350/3 sets. I'm not sure whether that may be related to the more comfortable seating taking some of the edge off things in the 2+2 sets? It also seems to be speed related, I try and use the fast LNWR services which only stop once or twice between Bletchley and London (Leighton Buzzard and/or Watford) and although the 350's on express services can certainly shift and are very impressive in some respects the ride at speed can be appalling. Like I say I find the vertical damping and ride to be fine, it is the lateral and yaw motion which is dreadful. A shame as in some respects such as build quality they're superb trains.

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I have also found significant variability in their ride, and for some weird reason the 350/2 series seem worse than the 350/1 and 350/3 sets. I'm not sure whether that may be related to the more comfortable seating taking some of the edge off things in the 2+2 sets? It also seems to be speed related, I try and use the fast LNWR services which only stop once or twice between Bletchley and London (Leighton Buzzard and/or Watford) and although the 350's on express services can certainly shift and are very impressive in some respects the ride at speed can be appalling. Like I say I find the vertical damping and ride to be fine, it is the lateral and yaw motion which is dreadful. A shame as in some respects such as build quality they're superb trains.

The same dreadful lateral motion affects the Electrostars on the Fen line: and the seats are so thin and hard that there is no support at all.

 

I think it’s both a Siemens *and* a Bombardier problem (but aren’t their bogies both derived from the same family?).

 

Fingers crossed that the Stadlers are better.

 

Paul

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And an extract from the article on which it's pictured (my bold):

 

This unit is on its way from Switzerland to Romania for some first test runs. When completed, it will be transferred to Poland for interior fitting and other last-phase modifications. Stadler has announced this train type will be presented during InnoTrans in Berlin in September

That's quite a tour!

 

And also of interest from the same site, a story about similar Stadler bi-modes for the Val d'Aosta in Italy

http://railcolornews.com/2017/06/16/it-official-presentation-hybrid-flirt-for-valle-daosta/

Edited by eastwestdivide
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And an extract from the article on which it's pictured (my bold):

 

That's quite a tour!

 

A good contender for “train that has visited the most countries, but only operates in the U.K.” Edited by nightstar.train

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I don't think they're bad looking units, like the Northern 195s they're nicer than the blobby Nissan Micra clones that Derby are churning out. Hopefully we get some sort of CAF or Stadler units in dark green in the not too distant future, to backfill the ever increasing number of units heading away. Not enough turbos to backfill the 15x, not holding my breath though

 

Jo

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Now these have to get a nickname especially with the slightly fatter middle. How do the following stack up.

 

Pie Van's

Worm's

Push me pull me's 

Gammon :-)

Beer Bellies. 

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"Toblerones"  -  Built in Switzerland and with peak shaped graphics on the side...

 

(incidentally GA's driving staff better lay-off such treats if they want to get through that cab door. Looks tiny!) 

Edited by admiles
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"Toblerones"  -  Built in Switzerland and with peak shaped graphics on the side...

 

(incidentally GA's driving staff better lay-off such treats if they want to get through that cab door. Looks tiny!)

 

Toblerones works on a few levels, they also have a big gap in between the main sections now!

 

Tom.

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Comments by journalist on WNXX hinting that seats are better that the current fad for hard ironing boards.

 

Also concern about axle weights of the power bogies.

 

Look interesting units to me.

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I still prefer a Claud with some Gresley stock though.

 

Stewart

Edited by stewartingram

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Interesting . Certainly a different looking unit . Exciting times on the railways what with TPE stock, Northern, Azumas and Greater Anglia all coming on line.

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Looks nice on the outside, but will,the seats be comfy?

Darius

Not if they are required to use the DfT approved seating - which although very uncomfortable to sit on during usuall train travel, is apparently superb at protecting the user from injury in those *frequent crashes we have on the UKs Railways.

 

* methinks the DfT need to pay more attention to the headings at the top of the columns comparing road and rail accidents - they seem to have been getting them transposed.....

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Now these have to get a nickname especially with the slightly fatter middle. How do the following stack up.

 

Pie Van's

Worm's

Push me pull me's

Gammon :-)

Beer Bellies.

 

Well, when the 2 car DEMU units working the Ashford - Hastings line got given a ex 4CEP EMU trailer car added in the middle they got the nickname ‘Magot’ To reflect the slightly wider middle coach.

 

Similarly the preserved ex Hastings DEMU that now usually runs with a ex EMU buffet and open coach in the middle of the formation and has also been referred to by the Magot nickname.

 

Of course the Southern region also had ‘Tadpoles’ at one time (an EPB EMU driving vehicle coupled to two vehicles from a slab sided ‘Hastings’ DEMU)

Edited by phil-b259

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