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Greater Anglia's Stadler Flirt - Class 745 & 755


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We didn't really "notice" much of the train on the outward journey because we spent the time in animated conversation with a representative of Stadler. He seemed pleased we liked the train so much, and invited us to tell Greater Anglia.

 

I would say, leg and shoulder room is good. The seating is good, certainly better than the first class on a 360. The seats line up with the windows. The sliding doors at the ends of the power pack were open, but the noise levels from the (two) engines were subdued. Sound levels would be quieter still if the doors were closed. The steps below the doors slide out towards the edges of the platforms and adjust themselves automatically to suit the gap. So the train is wheelchair-accessible without a ramp. If you sit on one of the seats above the wheels you get a better view, reminiscent of a 312 or indeed a Mk3. Some of the windows are opening emergency exits and there are no "break glass" hammers. The passageway through the power pack is always accessible to passengers, but you are not allowed to remain in it to travel.

 

The only difficulty for passengers I can perceive is, if a person with a double-width buggy joins one of the end coaches and finds themselves unable to alight at a short platform and unable to pass through the power pack. The Stadler rep agreed, and said the train staff would always direct such passengers towards the "disabled entrance", this is in the inner coach or 'coach B'.

 

I don't know what happened to unit number 333 but we had a different one for the return trip. This one wearing a nosebag and its temporary coupler.

 

- Richard.

 

1281929959_2021-04-2714_48_17.jpg.55c57e56337f683d5656dffc14ccc0cd.jpg

 

1317706422_2021-04-2714_47_43.jpg.48353076aaf28195c16f2f387f018412.jpg

 

 

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8 minutes ago, corneliuslundie said:

I am a bit worried about your assessment of comfort, being just over 6 ft 2! But unless they turn up on the services north of Norwich that is unlikely to be an issue, and then only about once a year.

Jonathan

I wouldn't worry. The leg room and shoulder room is good. I mentioned my height and the height of my partner simply to give some numbers. The seating is better than anything which calls at my local station (usually a 321 or 360) and indeed those high-density Anglia Mk3s.

 

- Richard.

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I'm currently on a new Anglia Stansted express unit providing a supposed inter city service to Norwich from Liverpool Street. 

The only positive I can come up with is it's quick off the mark.

No tables, woefully inadequate seats with an upright stance and very short bases. Ride is very harsh with lots of bumping and banging at speed, expecting to leave the train with bruises and back pain! The heater ducting is tight up to my leg using a window seat, fortunately it doesn't seem to be over hot otherwise I'd be very uncomfortable.

I came this way to have, probably, a last ride on an HST from Langley Mill into London.

The last time I travelled this way it was a 90 and mk3 set, if this is what is deemed satisfactory I won't be doing it again.

As a railway employee I don't have to pay, if I were a paying passenger I would be complaining and most likely, vowing not to use the service in future.

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7 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

I am a bit worried about your assessment of comfort, being just over 6 ft 2! But unless they turn up on the services north of Norwich that is unlikely to be an issue, and then only about once a year.

Jonathan

 

I've been on a couple, I'm 6ft and had plenty of legroom.

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Must say the ride comfort is not only limited to these, most new trains have the same problem. I wonder if it is due to either differences between the track GB Vs EU or is it due to making the suspension stiffer to make them move less so easier to pass the kenetic envelope ?

 

I have not found any train that rides as well as any fitted with the old BREL designed bogies.

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Today was the first time I have been on a train for 16 months. Came back from Liverpool Street on a Stansted Express to Manningtree rather than a "proper" Norwich 745. I had no problems with space but the seat is too upright and I rapidly developed discomfort in the lumbar region. The two things that I noticed were the jittery ride (but I had no difficulty in sending an email) and, walking through the train, how the floor height varies.

 

As an aside, on the way down to London, on a 321, was the time spent waiting at each station.

 

MR Trainwatch has the performance of both Stadler variations do not seem to have a rapidly improving performance.

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To add to my comments of yesterday, there was a the back of the train was reserved for catering and Stadler. There appeared to be a Stadler rep there.

 

TIN watch figures from the latest Modern Railways. A TIN is a technical incident and the figures I quote are for a moving annual average. Figures from June last year in brackets.

 

745/0   5529  (5395)

745/1   4625. (4080)

755/3   5635  (3254)

755/4   4625  (4080)

 

The pure electrics should be more reliable shouldn't they.

 

and for 720/5  2273.

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49 minutes ago, SBB Crocodile said:

 

The pure electrics should be more reliable shouldn't they.

It depends on what the actual "faults" are. For example, if it is a "door interlocking" problem it wouldn't necessarily matter if the unit is electric or diesel. 

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On 01/05/2021 at 09:36, cheesysmith said:

Must say the ride comfort is not only limited to these, most new trains have the same problem. I wonder if it is due to either differences between the track GB Vs EU or is it due to making the suspension stiffer to make them move less so easier to pass the kenetic envelope ?

 

I have not found any train that rides as well as any fitted with the old BREL designed bogies.

 

This has been discussed before on another thread.

 

Basically in Europe the attitude was to make sure the track was in good order as the way of providing a good ride.

 

In the UK, with HM Treasury constantly demanding BR do more with less there simply wasn't the money to invest in the wholesale rebuilding of trackbeds in that manor  - so BR put a lot of effort into bogie design instead as a way of compensating.

 

Its noteworthy that the bogies used under the Mk4s were excellent in their home nation (Switzerland) but when used in the UK were worse than the BR designed ones fitted to the Mk3s

 

What happened next of course can be summed up in one word 'privatisation'.

 

The collective knowledge in BR was scattered to the winds and rolling stock procurement left in the hands of bankers and accountants. With the hiatus that followed when new trains did start to be ordered again they were based on EU designs and using EU designers. As a result bogie designs based on European attitudes were used which gave a worse ride than BR designed stuff despite being newer. 

 

 

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I think the difference comes down to stiffness of the suspension. The UK bogies had more give in the travel with dampers tunes to specifically keep them stiff enough to prevent hunting. The EU bogies are a lot stiffer with less travel to meet the same effect at the wheel rail interface. Just look at the deseros that had to have special bushes inserted into the primary suspension to allow the wheelset to have a better curving angle and reduce track and wheel wear. Or the MK4 that needed dampers adding to the gangways to increase stiffness between coaches. The only train I would expect to approach UK ride would be these 745/755, as the articulated platform makes a very stiff body so would allow softer suspension.

 

A better way to compare would be between a Jag (before they followed everyone else with the ring lap times) and a BMW. One has a better ride but still allows you to do 150+, the other is stiffer, to make sure the wheel has maximum contact with the road.

Edited by cheesysmith
Stupid tablet spell checker
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I had a day trip to Norwich last Thursday (13th May 2021), my first trips on a class 745 so here are some photos and thoughts. I haven’t read the previous 98 pages but maybe there is something of interest here.

 

My outward journey was the 11:38 from Ipswich, formed by set number 001. I sat in coach B, on the raised seats in front of the door:

1767942383_2021-05-1312_18_37a.jpg.136ea4c056242921e2c38e97d18353fe.jpg

 

I had the coach to myself except for two members of the train crew who had no customers at their buffet bar. One of them sat while the other stood throughout the journey. I used the ‘facilities’ and this was simple enough, I will spare the detail but the task was on-target. So no great problems with the ride for me. I missed all of the rework done when the trains came into service.

 

1996941950_2021-05-1312_28_42a.jpg.eebcb2f2f146e995d41844580524e872.jpg

 

My return journey was the 16:00 from Norwich, formed by set number 008. I sat in coach A, with the connection to coach B immediately behind me:

728400415_2021-05-1315_48_18a.jpg.9ec6011aedc9213e140acc12d5ef45ce.jpg

 

I think most folk will either like or loath this sort of seating arrangement. I like it, the train feels spacious and airy. The seats do not recline but I never travelled in the first class on an Anglia Mk3 to compare.

 

It seems to me, all of these modern trains since the Mk3 stock have some sort of Achilles heel. The Pendolino has its terribly claustrophobic feel and the structural beam sticking into your upper arm, the class 800 is downright uncomfortable, and the Flirt (in its main line version) has its sloping floors.

 

The ride was a bit rough between Needham Market and Stowmarket, and curiously on the same stretch on the way back, but surely this is a track problem not a fault with the train? The ride is truly not at all "bad".

 

I paid £24 for my return trip from Hatfield Peverel, this was an £8 premium over standard class travel. My connecting services were a refurbished 321 outbound to Ipswich (10:34 from Hat Pev), quite decent in the first class now although the ride is far to rough to make written notes, and a very unrefurbished 321 to get me back from Chelmsford. I accidentally on purpose forgot to leave 008 at Colchester on the way home, but then fell asleep and missed Marks Tey and Kelvedon. I woke up in time for a very smooth run through Witham and Hatfield Peverel and on to Chelmsford.

 

It was raining in Chelmsford and I lost my footing getting into the 321. I think, a combination of my driving ‘distance’ spectacles, some slippery yellow paint, and possibly the wine. And maybe unfamiliarity as I’ve barely travelled by train for ages! My trailing leg nearly went down between the platform and train, and what could have been a bit nasty ended up with a bruise on my shin. Probably serves me right for trying to get a bit extra free from the trip, but I will already happily forgive the Flirt for its sloping floors.

 

My main feelings are, the 745 is a good train but what passes nowadays for first class travel is a shadow of what we used to have, which was of course in the days when I couldn’t afford to use it. There is no chance of a cup of coffee in a proper cup, let alone a meal with a knife and fork. I enjoyed the trip, the ride is still good to me even though it doesn’t reach the finesse of the Mk3; but savouring JP Chenet from the cap of my flask of outbound coffee does rather suggest a country in terminal decline.

 

- Richard.

2021-05-13 15.49.22a.jpg

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Last week saw a Basil breaking new ground.

 

Unfortunately the Eccles stone was 3 and a bit hours late meaning I wasn't paying attention to much else and managed to fail to notice the path for the 755 until it appeared at Norwich on signal maps and I checked it out. I rushed over to Wymondham and captured it as it stopped at the buffers of the up siding, and a then some of it reversing and eventually heading back to Norwich. The siding was being tested as it's planned to use it for a couple of weekends while Norwich is blocked, GA services are to start and finish at Wymondham, the blockade also takes out the GEML so if a unit was required at Wymondham it would have to leave Norwich, go to Lowestoft, then down the East Suffolk to Ipswich and around the Bacon (mmm bacon) Factory

 curve, through Bury-St-Edmunds to Ely and reverse, a somewhat circuitous route - hence GA looking at using the siding.

 

Wymondham
21/05/2021 (Friday)


755401 on 1K70, 11:48, Stansted Airport - Norwich (13:39) - stopper and 755325 on 5Q89, 13:04, Norwich - Wymondham Sidings (13:59)

DAS882747.jpg.1c0a623495970bea7786f583ff31a802.jpg

 

755325 on 5Q90, 14:20, Wymondham Sidings - Norwich C.PT. T.&R.S.M.D (14:48)

DAS882754.jpg.ecd307be34cc092e4a2f9d6b258e8495.jpg

 

755407 on 1K79, 13:27, Norwich - Stansted Airport (15:21) - stopper and 755325 on 5Q90, 14:20, Wymondham Sidings - Norwich C.PT. T.&R.S.M.D (14:48)

DAS882773.jpg.f31da64d63f989939d224699334afe86.jpg

 

DAS882777.jpg.2f80c9879d20ddd79ce201fecf499ad3.jpg

 

158774 on 1L08, 11:40, Nottingham - Norwich (14:09) passes as 755325 awaits a road

DAS882790.jpg.7a5856ccdb34e6e52552b42e385e2768.jpg

 

755325, having run out of the Up Siding, waits to use the crossover to return to Norwich, 755402 on 1K72, 12:48, Stansted Airport - Norwich (14:42) passes

DAS882829.jpg.f44cea59c270171fcf711fd0f4758083.jpg

 

And off we go

DAS882846.jpg.ded55c1358095a5ceaeafcb43cf032d8.jpg

 

DAS882859.jpg.35fda01c1127651287c2f6248f93448e.jpg

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25 minutes ago, Zomboid said:

The Dereham line junction appears to have been plain-lined. Presumably a temporary fix until a new crossing can be installed?

 

Correct

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When did the point and single slip get removed from the up siding (when it was a loop)? 

 

Have they checked clearance in the down sidings too? (Can recall seeing pictures of those in use the last time the route was blocked during the building of the new swing bridge in the 80s)

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17 minutes ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

When did the point and single slip get removed from the up siding (when it was a loop)? 

 

Have they checked clearance in the down sidings too? (Can recall seeing pictures of those in use the last time the route was blocked during the building of the new swing bridge in the 80s)

 

Always been a single road since I've been down here - so over 10 years. The down sidings are signed out of use nowadays, don't think they've been used during "my" time either so again, over 10 years

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2 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

Always been a single road since I've been down here - so over 10 years. The down sidings are signed out of use nowadays, don't think they've been used during "my" time either so again, over 10 years

 

The way things change when we're not looking.

 

Going OT: Interestingly, I've just checked Google maps (as I can remember the 'satellite' picture showing the old formation when I last looked), the photo is the siding arrangement, but the map is still a loop.

 

Screenshot_20210524-214559_Maps.jpg.828a8900fcddd2091f873715592d900b.jpg

 

Screenshot_20210524-214208_Maps.jpg.f8c22e01c720fada396c73bcce0581ef.jpg

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10 hours ago, Satan's Goldfish said:

 

The way things change when we're not looking.

 

Going OT: Interestingly, I've just checked Google maps (as I can remember the 'satellite' picture showing the old formation when I last looked), the photo is the siding arrangement, but the map is still a loop.

 

 

 

The connection at the Norwich end was controlled by a ground frame after abolition of the North box, Owen Stratford - on Flickr - has a "late 2000's" diagram showing it in place but it had gone by 201x's when I arrived on the scene.

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I made my first journeys on Class 755 over the last few days and found them to be excellent trains. The lack of underfloor noise and vibration as per a conventional DMU, and the excellent level boarding provided by the low floor and extending steps, were particularly noticeable. Linking the Norwich/Cambridge and Cambridge/Stansted Airport service into one through route is also a great idea, and of course the units can run on electric power between Ely and Stansted Airport. 

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Another bit of unusual track for Basil

 

image.png.6cf359bd1973af5541e20f52af67402f.png

 

A points track circuit (over the swing bridge) failure at Norwich is causing major issues, 1P24 terminated at Diss and has run forward has 5P43, it will now use the crossover to run into the up platform (up to CO430 signal) and form 1P43 from there.

Edited by beast66606
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On 31/05/2021 at 13:34, caradoc said:

I made my first journeys on Class 755 over the last few days and found them to be excellent trains. The lack of underfloor noise and vibration as per a conventional DMU, and the excellent level boarding provided by the low floor and extending steps, were particularly noticeable. Linking the Norwich/Cambridge and Cambridge/Stansted Airport service into one through route is also a great idea, and of course the units can run on electric power between Ely and Stansted Airport. 

I think they are a good-looking train too. This one was approaching Woodbridge on 14th April 2021, this was the first time I saw one.

 

(The pedestrian gate is forward of the vehicle gate here).

 

- Richard.

 

925195573_2021-04-1414_30.jpg.a4cf56949527f5a69511bf3b08681be8.jpg

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On 31/05/2021 at 13:34, caradoc said:

I made my first journeys on Class 755 over the last few days and found them to be excellent trains. The lack of underfloor noise and vibration as per a conventional DMU, and the excellent level boarding provided by the low floor and extending steps, were particularly noticeable. Linking the Norwich/Cambridge and Cambridge/Stansted Airport service into one through route is also a great idea, and of course the units can run on electric power between Ely and Stansted Airport. 

Same here last week, Peterboro to Ely on a 4xcar 755. Seats were just fine, level boarding impressive, good multi-use space for bikes etc, quiet inside and not too noisy from the outside, and fast to accelerate even on diesel. Mind the drop from the seating bays on the ‘plinths’ at the ends of the coaches though!

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Been a few fallen heroes this last week, I managed to miss two drags but caught the third

 

Great Moulton
23/06/2021 (Wednesday)
37601, Perseus, and 745108 on 5P68, 05:50, London Liverpool Street - Norwich C.PT. T.&R.S.M.D (08:15) - unit failed at London Liverpool Street on 22/06/2021

DAS885370.jpg.d19ef3cee38f328dfe009c04bb604978.jpg

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I am in no position to comment on any aspect of these new units except .......

 

......the horrendous horns / warning klaxons !!!

 

Innocently sitting alongside the river just outside Norwich, enjoying the sunshine and tranquility, when - a blast akin to the siren on the QE2 nearly precipitated me into the water!

 

This was repeated every time a Flirt approached the nearby level crossing.

 

Since when did we need a heart attack to warn us of an approaching train? What's wrong with Dee-daw?

 

Not impressed!

 

CJI.

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