Bilton Junction

[jessy1692]

11 minutes ago, cornelius said:

 

Yes this has been a long-stalled project, there was still a lot of detail to add. At the time it was also using Dundas bogies, although the later 1950s Hudson pattern with a strip added below the axleboxes.

 

 

I would still like to realise the plan I drew up for a layout based on the New Park end of the line but hard to say when this will happen!

From what i saw it had the bones of a nice little layout, would be good to see it come to fruition one day. My coal drop end bit of the layout days are numbered, my Dads moving house hopefully once all this is over so everythings got to come up....Starting again, ill be looking to incorporate more 009 so if you could reboot the hoppers that would be fantastic!

Cheers

James

[jessy1692]

22 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

Photo decided to upload at last!

 

Here’s the current state of play........hopefully a working chassis next.

 

Looks very neat and tidy Jon, reading the links Cornelius posted id forgotten what a pig the minitrix chassis was with the odd wheels and idler gears. Keep it coming!

James

[Jon4470]

8 hours ago, cornelius said:

 

Yes this has been a long-stalled project, there was still a lot of detail to add. At the time it was also using Dundas bogies, although the later 1950s Hudson pattern with a strip added below the axleboxes.

 

 

I would still like to realise the plan I drew up for a layout based on the New Park end of the line but hard to say when this will happen!

 

Hi Cornelius

 

The wagon looks good and New Park would make an interesting layout. It even has the benefit of a great scenic break with the trains emerging from the tunnel!

 

i’ve added A photo here of my version of the hopper wagon. In case you haven’t seen it ( it was poster several pages ago). It’s all in plastic and as I contemplate creating the next one I think I will create a brass chassis frame for weight and durability reasons. I used Dundas WW1 bogies and added coil springs.

 

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

OK - I think it is fair to say that, after a big struggle, the half time score is 1 -0 to the Minitrix chassis!

 

second half tomorrow - after I’ve had time to work on my tactics.

 

 

[jessy1692]

25 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

OK - I think it is fair to say that, after a big struggle, the half time score is 1 -0 to the Minitrix chassis!

 

second half tomorrow - after I’ve had time to work on my tactics.

 

 

Good luck for round 2 Jon! Youll get there, i think iv blocked out most of my minitrix memories!

[Jon4470]

James was correct - this is not a game of two halves, it is going to be a series of rounds!

 

Last night I had a good think and also re- read the link the Cornelius had provided.

 

First, I realised that if I was building a kit, I would never assemble the wheels and valve gear and then try to fit them. What I would do is to get the chassis rolling with no valve gear. Then fit the motor. Then fit the valve gear.

 

Second, I read in Michael Campbell’s notes that the centre driving wheels were smaller than the others. So I measured them and, sure enough, the centre wheels were 0.5 mm smaller diameter. So, if they are fitted on the front as per the instructions the loco will become a 4-2-4 and not a 4-6-0! Best case the (new) front wheels won’t pick up electricity, worse case the whole loco will rock.

 

This morning it was back to basics. Off came the valve gear, wheels swapped back to their original positions and re-fitted. Then adjusted to line up all the crank pin positions. Then re- fitted ...... rinse and repeat for over an hour until they all really lined up. There is a lot of slop in the gears so the wheel positions are deceptive and you only really know things are correct ( or not) when the keeper plate is back on and you turn all the wheels together.

 

Finally though....a rolling chassis

 

 

Next step is to re-fit the motor and check it will run under it’s own steam ( so to speak). Hopefully I haven’t damaged the pick ups along the way as well. They get caught in all sorts of ways when re- fitting the wheels.

 

Then I fancy reducing the number of spokes per the Michael Campbell notes.

 

The worry in the background is that the crank pin holes in the front wheels are about 1.1 mm diameter......where am I going to fins that sized rod?

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards!

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

1 hour ago, Jon4470 said:

James was correct - this is not a game of two halves, it is going to be a series of rounds!

 

Last night I had a good think and also re- read the link the Cornelius had provided.

 

First, I realised that if I was building a kit, I would never assemble the wheels and valve gear and then try to fit them. What I would do is to get the chassis rolling with no valve gear. Then fit the motor. Then fit the valve gear.

 

Second, I read in Michael Campbell’s notes that the centre driving wheels were smaller than the others. So I measured them and, sure enough, the centre wheels were 0.5 mm smaller diameter. So, if they are fitted on the front as per the instructions the loco will become a 4-2-4 and not a 4-6-0! Best case the (new) front wheels won’t pick up electricity, worse case the whole loco will rock.

 

This morning it was back to basics. Off came the valve gear, wheels swapped back to their original positions and re-fitted. Then adjusted to line up all the crank pin positions. Then re- fitted ...... rinse and repeat for over an hour until they all really lined up. There is a lot of slop in the gears so the wheel positions are deceptive and you only really know things are correct ( or not) when the keeper plate is back on and you turn all the wheels together.

 

Finally though....a rolling chassis

 

 

Next step is to re-fit the motor and check it will run under it’s own steam ( so to speak). Hopefully I haven’t damaged the pick ups along the way as well. They get caught in all sorts of ways when re- fitting the wheels.

 

Then I fancy reducing the number of spokes per the Michael Campbell notes.

 

The worry in the background is that the crank pin holes in the front wheels are about 1.1 mm diameter......where am I going to fins that sized rod?

 

Anyway, onwards and upwards!

 

Jon

The trials and tribulations of that chassis are coming back to me now, i really have blocked out how many times i had mine in bits and back together! As long as it rolls ok it should be fine i think, theres that much play in the valve gear it should be ok. (He says with working valve gear on only one side of his!) Top effort Jon, hope it all works as it should

James

Edited April 18, 2020 by jessy1692

[Jon4470]

Round 3

 

The motor and associated brackets went together ok. Thankfully I had found a website ( minitrix.org.uk) that had a stage by stage dismantling set of photos. This was complete with warnings about various pitfalls withe the brackets and contacts. Saved me a lot of head scratching and aggravation.

 

Put the loco on the track, switched on power.....nothing. Reversed the direction switch and the motor twitched. Reversed again and it turned about 20% of a revolution. Upside....at least the motor and electrics were working!

 

Moved the wheels by hand it was apparent that the rear wheels were sticking. So off with the coupling rods and out with the rear wheel set. Back on the track and - hey presto- it works

 

so so I now have a 4-4-0

 

 

I reckon that I just about won this round! Now to figure out what is wrong with the rear wheels.

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

Onwards I go. I figured out the problem with the rear wheels. The metal chassis has a plastic overlay with the pick ups attached. A part of the plastic overlay had not engaged properly and was pushing against the rear wheel. So with that sorted out I then had all six wheels working.

 

The chassis is working ok but I’m a bit concerned that the motor seems to be running hot. I’ve oiled all the moving parts so we’ll see if that helps.

 

Now, besides the problem of how to fix the crankpins to the wheels, the other main issue is the valve gear. The photo below should show the problem(s) quite well.

 I think that the connecting rod needs to be longer. At the full extremity of the wheel movement (as shown in the photo) it is really struggling to reach the cross head. It’s only a mm or so but I think it’s a problem. The return crank will have to have minimal divergence from the centre of the axle otherwise the eccentric rod will be over extended. Finally the combination lever is pivoted right next to the cylinder. This means that it, the union link and the drop link are nearly in a straight line at times.

Plenty to ponder...

 

 

 

On the other hand I have made some progress with the body. These are pretty good castings and fit together  well.

 

 

 

Jon

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by Jon4470
To correct spell checker!

[Jon4470]

I had an idea about the valve gear today. This was prompted by the fact that one of the cylinders fell off the chassis. I realised that, instead of lengthening the valve gear, I could move the cylinder back a mm or so. This evening I therefore removed a chunk of the retaining lug on the chassis and re- fitted the cylinder. So far it looks like it will work to me.

 

I also decided that I was going to plug the crank pin holes in the front wheels and then drill them out to accept the lace pin that I had used earlier. To get the correct diameter plastic rod I turned down a 2mm diameter piece to about 1.15mm using my Dremel and a file. First time i’ve Done this type of operation and the result seems ok

 

This has now been cut in two and a piece superglued to each front wheel.

 

Tomorrow I’ll drill the out and fit the valve gear as well. Then we’ll see if the plan works!

 

Jon

[Jon4470]

Silence usually means a problem!

 

Valve gear did not work.....so I ....... gave up!

 

Well actually, I decided to take break from Spencer.

 

I have nearly completed another coach. This one is a North Eastern Railway Open Third built using a Bill Bedford kit. The kit is a set of etchings but no castings.

 

 

A few more bits to fit, a good clean, sort out the roof and this will be basically there. Pleased with this as there are no instructions...so I ‘ve learned the intricacies of these kits the hard way! Good practice because I have a number of his kits to build.

 

As for Spencer........I will not be beaten

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

3 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Silence usually means a problem!

 

Valve gear did not work.....so I ....... gave up!

 

Well actually, I decided to take break from Spencer.

 

I have nearly completed another coach. This one is a North Eastern Railway Open Third built using a Bill Bedford kit. The kit is a set of etchings but no castings.

 

 

A few more bits to fit, a good clean, sort out the roof and this will be basically there. Pleased with this as there are no instructions...so I ‘ve learned the intricacies of these kits the hard way! Good practice because I have a number of his kits to build.

 

As for Spencer........I will not be beaten

 

Jon

Nice looking bit of brass there Jon, one day ill have a crack at brass... maybe.

 

As for Spencer, wish i could remember more of what i did with it to be of more help. Im sure youll get there in the end and many more rounds of trial and error. I do recall bending one of the rods slightly go give more clearance, ill ask my Dad to give me it tonight and ill take  some pics off how its set up. Hopefully it may give you some pointers.

Cheers

James

[Jon4470]

2 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Nice looking bit of brass there Jon, one day ill have a crack at brass... maybe.

 

As for Spencer, wish i could remember more of what i did with it to be of more help. Im sure youll get there in the end and many more rounds of trial and error. I do recall bending one of the rods slightly go give more clearance, ill ask my Dad to give me it tonight and ill take  some pics off how its set up. Hopefully it may give you some pointers.

Cheers

James

 

Any help gratefully received! 

 

The connecting rods rods do have a joggle in them as originally supplied with the Minitrix chassis. So when you follow the instructions to turn them around to hide the fluting you also turn the joggle the wrong way  ( if that makes sense)

 

i need to to spend a while looking at the relationship of cylinders, connecting rod and axles. This is both width wise, to see if the joggle is enough and side on to see if the cross head lines up with the axle and whether the connecting rod is long enough. 

 

I need to be in the right frame of mind for that.

 

 

As for the brass......I’m beginning to enjoy building coaches. I find that there is plenty of variety and the research to find the correct diagram numbers is part of the fun.

 

Jon

 

 

[jessy1692]

Dangerous waters once you get into looking at differences in diagram numbers etc, i fell down that rabbit hole looking at the freightliners and containers! Only just resurfaced haha! Agree with you though its definately worth the research to make something unique and accurate. 

 

Iv just asked him to leave Spencer in the front garden so ill get some snaps shortly on my walk home, will post some pics in next hour or so once im out the office

[jessy1692]

Hi Jon a few pics for you, iv not cropped them hopthully you can zoom in on bits that may be useful

Edited April 23, 2020 by jessy1692

[jessy1692]

Edited April 23, 2020 by jessy1692

[jessy1692]

[Jon4470]

Not much visible progress at the moment.

 

I’ve been busy with work ( from home) - which is good news! I’ve also been doing some projects on the house and in the garden. The closest any of that came to model railways are the off cuts of ply that might come in handy as part of layout baseboards

 

I did have a sort out of some of my paperwork and started to organise things a bit. I made a sketch of the layout, which helped me to identify all the smaller projects. I’ve created files for these so that I can collate photos, dimensions, good ideas etc.

 

 

And today I treated myself to a relaxing day that included some modelling.

I made some progress with the NER coach - including a trial fit of the roof.

 

 

 

It’s just resting there for the moment while I figure out where the ventilators go.

 

I also made a safety valve casing for the Raven A2. This was one of the jobs that I was least looking forward to. It took about 2 hours of filing to get to this! At least it’s done now. As long as I stay happy with it ( and don’t decide to have another go) then the rest of the detailing should be more enjoyable.... pipes, and grab rails etc.

 

 

 

As you can tell I’m doing anything that is not Spencer........at least for a few days

 

Hope everyone is keeping well.

 

 

Jon

 

 

 

[Jon4470]

Tonight I had to work late into the evening. But the first hour was basically watching ( a computer screen) and waiting. So I picked up Spencer and had a good look at the valve gear.

The loco runs with just coupling rods. And it Is pretty good when one of the connecting rods is hooked up. The problem comes when I attach the return crank. The forces on the crank turn it, so that it loses its position relative to the wheel. I considered fitting Romford crank pins - but the hole in the wheel that is required would be too big I think. I looked at Gibson crankpins next. They might work...but they are designed to go into the wheel from behind. I haven’t searched for 2mm scale crank pins yet - there must be something.

 

If necessary there is one bodge that I am contemplating. In this I would hook up the connecting rod and attach the return crank to the crank pin. I would not attach the return crank to the valve gear though. The valve gear that is normally attached to the return crank would be glued solid and not move. I don’t like this idea much but it is far more important for the  loco to work that it is to have a bit of valve gear moving.

 

the photo might explain

 

 

The joint that the red arrow is pointing to will be unsoldered. The valve gear that the blue arrow points to will be held in that position by gluing up the two joints just above the blue arrow.

 

It might look alright.

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

Ahh good old Spencer! Iv just look at one of my pics of the valve gear to see if i could see anything on mine that may help and i think its different to yours:

Definitely looks like i have one less link connected to the crank, iv not noticed this before. I dont recall altering it, perhaps my chassis is an older version/simpler version. How interesting!

Keep on fettling, im sure youll get it going without gluing it up, would it be possible to move the cylinders/gear forward slightly and fettle up the motion bracket so that the joints sit  nearly under it? On mine the end of slidebars look to end just behind the bracket?

Cheers

James

[Jon4470]

Hi James

interesting that the valve gear on yours is different, although I think that you used a 2-6-0 and not the 2-6-2? ( can’t quite remember)

 

I think the valve gear is actually at full stretch and then it acts like a screwdriver on the crank pin ( which is just a friction fit). I think the correct solution is a screw in crankpin and also to lengthen some of the valve gear. 

 

What I might do though, is to move the cylinder closer to the wheels. I already moved it 1 mm or so. Maybe another 1 mm would help.

 

as you say - good old Spencer!

 

Jon

[jessy1692]

6 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

Hi James

interesting that the valve gear on yours is different, although I think that you used a 2-6-0 and not the 2-6-2? ( can’t quite remember)

 

I think the valve gear is actually at full stretch and then it acts like a screwdriver on the crank pin ( which is just a friction fit). I think the correct solution is a screw in crankpin and also to lengthen some of the valve gear. 

 

What I might do though, is to move the cylinder closer to the wheels. I already moved it 1 mm or so. Maybe another 1 mm would help.

 

as you say - good old Spencer!

 

Jon

Ah yes i think it was a 2-6-0 as iv the tender knocking around. Wonder why they did different valve gear for the 2 models? Strange.

 

1mm might make all the difference so worth a try before chopping it all up!

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

On 25/01/2020 at 10:59, Jon4470 said:

On a modelling note this is what the coach now looks like after more fiddling with the teak and then another coat of varnish.

 

 

and in close up

 

 

 

As a comparison here is a photo of the Hornby equivalent 

 

 

and in close up

 

 

 

I bought this from EBay for about £10 because it’s the only standard 1st class sleeper that I can find.....I can’t even find side etches for these. For me the big problem is the slab sided look - they have very little curvature to the sides. I wonder whether adjusting the location of the horizontal beading (just below LNER) in the photo would help to disguise this. It should be lower on the coach side and it makes the lower panel too tall. At £10 I might have a go! All the others that I can find are £25+.

 

Jon

 

I have recently bought one of these Hornby Gresley 1st Class Sleepers. I'm not that bothered about the tumblehome.

 

But having consulted Harris, I can't find a diagram for a 1st class Sleeper that matches this. All the drawings show large windows on the corridor side.

 

And, I also need to find a second class sleeper to run with it (Edinburgh-St Pancras). What is available?

[Jon4470]

35 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I have recently bought one of these Hornby Gresley 1st Class Sleepers. I'm not that bothered about the tumblehome.

 

But having consulted Harris, I can't find a diagram for a 1st class Sleeper that matches this. All the drawings show large windows on the corridor side.

 

And, I also need to find a second class sleeper to run with it (Edinburgh-St Pancras). What is available?

 

Hello Joseph

 

The Hornby 1st class sleeper is a diagram 17. The corridor windows are pairs of windows (each one larger than the compartment side) that are separated by a narrow frame.

 

For 3rd class (2nd class from 1956 I think) choice for Gresley coaches is limited. Kirk did a kit of the diagram 95 convertibles. This is mine:

 

 

These could be run as sleepers or as seated carriages. In many ways they look like a standard compartment carriage. They come up on eBay from time to time.

 

The other 3 rd class Gresley Diagram is the 65ft Diagram 148. I’m not aware of any kits for these.

 

What period are you modelling? 

 

Jon

 

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

3 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

 

Hello Joseph

 

The Hornby 1st class sleeper is a diagram 17. The corridor windows are pairs of windows (each one larger than the compartment side) that are separated by a narrow frame.

 

For 3rd class (2nd class from 1956 I think) choice for Gresley coaches is limited. Kirk did a kit of the diagram 95 convertibles. This is mine:

 

 

These could be run as sleepers or as seated carriages. In many ways they look like a standard compartment carriage. They come up on eBay from time to time.

 

The other 3 rd class Gresley Diagram is the 65ft Diagram 148. I’m not aware of any kits for these.

 

What period are you modelling? 

 

Jon

 

 

 

Hi Jon,

 

Many thanks for confirmation that the Hornby coach is OK. Must be me not having looked at Harris properly. I have Campling somewhere in store.

 

The 65' Dg148 is shown in Harris but that is going to be difficult.

 

I am modelling circa 1960. I'm not sure if ex-LNER vehicles were still featuring then on Edinburgh to St Pancras trains as they had since North British days. But it makes an interesting change from BR Mk1 sleepers on the other trains. I will, in due course, try to make some of the ex-LMS sleepers to give some more variety.