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Bilton Junction


Jon4470
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On 25/07/2020 at 08:17, jessy1692 said:

Youve beaten me to it Jon! Been distracted by footy and wallpapering this week, looks like youll be well sorted now for your dock, looking forward to seeing it progress.

All the best 

James

 

I had a feeling that the footy would be distracting you! Hope you had a good celebration!

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Armed with my new photos and some key measurements I decided to get it all down on paper. 

 

First of all a plan view.

 

7B61189B-33DC-4738-97D4-F8B8E4F7C057.jpeg.d35aa52e50f8eeb09f951d96912156ff.jpeg

 

This was drawn at 2mm to 1 foot so it would fit on A4 paper. Top is the standard gauge siding ( or cycle path now). Centre left is the bridge. I have assumed 20’ as the span for this. The other key dimensions are noted in feet.

The continuation drawing bottom centre is to show the retaining walls for the incline. Every 6’ the wall drops one course around the curve and then a more usual angle of descent is adopted. ( This is clearer on the elevation view)

 

Then I created the elevations

 

6E5DE475-6068-45D8-9701-CB858295D93B.jpeg.2875a7592b574e8901d62939a16fc0be.jpeg

 

This top elevation is looking at the side of the tar dock. You see the ground drops from right to left (road level to narrow gauge yard level). I make this about 1 in 11 incline which seems ok. The continuation elevation goes to the coal drops. All this is guesstimates- apart from the height of 12’. 

 

5D52BF3A-1928-4D45-AB7A-60D1F4BB1A26.jpeg.784f1d27b7b3c02a72aad8e7ccc2fcb8.jpeg

 

This is the incline elevation and shows the retaining gaining wall shape.

 

Finally som sketches......I’m no artist but I hope they make some of the features more clear.

 

C4419C13-0144-41CD-BD00-FA63CEF06556.jpeg.2f4aab1c0f14e5a8cfd264e3aedfe945.jpeg

 

The end end of the tar dock showing the bridge abutment.

 

 

 

BEAECB5F-A320-422B-A1F2-5ADB6A9D7254.jpeg.f1ee74aec6d4769eb0bb5f09db5dd78c.jpeg

 

 

The incline line bridge abutment.

 

 

EF105B73-5D9D-4663-963B-72DAD99B2113.jpeg.b53a11bab1845fb600ab962a3015325c.jpeg

 

The other ( road end) of the dock showing the standard gauge and narrow gauge tracks.

 

Hope these doodles are of interest.

 

The mock up is progressing slowly but steadily...as are experiments with stone colours.

 

Jon

 

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10 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

I had a feeling that the footy would be distracting you! Hope you had a good celebration!

Just a tad! Still hasnt really sunk in, unbelievable couple of seasons.

 

Nice sketches too, although the one showing the end of the dock with the abutment, i always thought the retaining wall was level all the way to the dock with standard gauge sidings finishing against the concrete wall of the dock, i think some of the wall has been taken out here.

20200727_081918.jpg.6b89d24a59dd8238ee283f8e5a5b2af4.jpg

Apologies for the crude red line but i think thats where the top of the wall should be with 2 sidings terminating against the wall. 

Im allowed back to my normal workbench again now so at somepoint this week will have a look over the books and pics again.

Cheers

James

Edited by jessy1692
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2 hours ago, AdeMoore said:

Does help Jon I think I’m getting it now.

Just need to work out in my head how those sketches sit as one.

cheers

Ade

 

Hi Ade

Hopefully the mock up will put all the bits into context. I’ve just a few bits to add  to complete it.

 

It has already achieved a lot for me though. I have confirmed most, if not all, of the dimensions. Crucially I have confirmed the relative heights from the narrow gauge yard at the lowest to the top of the tar dock at the highest. That should enable me to set out some track beds on a base board.

 

Jon

 

 

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13 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

Just a tad! Still hasnt really sunk in, unbelievable couple of seasons.

 

Nice sketches too, although the one showing the end of the dock with the abutment, i always thought the retaining wall was level all the way to the dock with standard gauge sidings finishing against the concrete wall of the dock, i think some of the wall has been taken out here.

20200727_081918.jpg.6b89d24a59dd8238ee283f8e5a5b2af4.jpg

Apologies for the crude red line but i think thats where the top of the wall should be with 2 sidings terminating against the wall. 

Im allowed back to my normal workbench again now so at somepoint this week will have a look over the books and pics again.

Cheers

James

 

 

Hi James

 

No need to apologise at all. 

My reasoning for the drop comes from two sources. First is that the wall currently slops down and looks to have proper coping stones on top - so hasn’t fallen down or been hurriedly reduced in height. The other source is the photo I grabbed off the NERA presentation. (Can’t reproduce it here without permission) That photo was taken close to abandonment time, but it is the only one that I’ve seen that shows the lower retaining wall section. It could have been higher at one time, I agree.

 

My take on the layout is shown ( not to scale yet) as below

 

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The green represents the embankment above a low retaining wall. The wall then steps up to the coal drop level.

 

Jon

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I think that the track layout around the dock looked something like this

 

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Apologies for the mess all around.....I promise I’ll take some better photos with a bit more base area complete!

 

The standard gauge siding fed into a double slip ( represented here by the diamond crossing). The green area next to the diamond crossing is where I think that there was an embankment. The two tracks leading from the diamond to the right are the two sidings, one of which was over the coal drops. Where that siding approaches the edge of the yard is about where the retaining wall goes back up to full height....I think.

 

I need to plot out the dimensions for the retaining wall and the coal drops to make sure that it all makes sense. 

 

James - if you do have any photos of the area between the drops and the dock that would be great. At the moment all this is based on one photo and some estimates!

 

On one, very popular, topic it is often said that modelling an actual location is easy because you just copy what is( or was) there. I’m beginning to wonder about this statement:D. Just as well that I enjoy the research aspect.

 

Jon

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2 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

I think that the track layout around the dock looked something like this

 

A5E46D0E-4192-4A48-9442-C01E3A8297F0.jpeg.5ae1d38205b0454c4094773c538a0c31.jpeg

 

Apologies for the mess all around.....I promise I’ll take some better photos with a bit more base area complete!

 

The standard gauge siding fed into a double slip ( represented here by the diamond crossing). The green area next to the diamond crossing is where I think that there was an embankment. The two tracks leading from the diamond to the right are the two sidings, one of which was over the coal drops. Where that siding approaches the edge of the yard is about where the retaining wall goes back up to full height....I think.

 

I need to plot out the dimensions for the retaining wall and the coal drops to make sure that it all makes sense. 

 

James - if you do have any photos of the area between the drops and the dock that would be great. At the moment all this is based on one photo and some estimates!

 

On one, very popular, topic it is often said that modelling an actual location is easy because you just copy what is( or was) there. I’m beginning to wonder about this statement:D. Just as well that I enjoy the research aspect.

 

Jon

Evening Jon, now that is interesting, i always thought the wall was level but now you mention the coping stones i just assumed they had slumped down or been replaced, but why would you replace them if you have taken some wall away !! More research required my end, i blame that pic on the back cover of the book which in my mind is 'correct'.

 

I think there is an aerial shot of the yard somewhere on the net, i think i may have sent it to you Jon, wonder if thst may shed some light on it but i feat its probably wont show what we want... edit it doesnt and also i think you are bang on with your estimates and track plan, dont know why i thought the sidings went up to the dock, i know they do on my model but i know that was just done to suit space.

 

This plan shows no tracks there so likely the full height wall not needed where the track curves away to the entrance by the SB

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Keep up the good work, its looking really good so far.

James

Edited by jessy1692
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7 hours ago, jessy1692 said:

 i blame that pic on the back cover of the book which in my mind is 'correct'.

 

 

I agree about that picture.....It’s a lovely painting but I don’t think it can be relied upon as a faithful representation. Shame really because it is clear unlike most photos!

 

Interesting plan by the way. I’d forgotten about it. If I remember correctly this is the plan before the narrow gauge was put in. The area marked A,B,C being the new land required to gain entry to the yard. B,C being where the incline to the tar dock started.

I think that is correct?

 

Jon

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2 hours ago, Jon4470 said:

 

I agree about that picture.....It’s a lovely painting but I don’t think it can be relied upon as a faithful representation. Shame really because it is clear unlike most photos!

 

Interesting plan by the way. I’d forgotten about it. If I remember correctly this is the plan before the narrow gauge was put in. The area marked A,B,C being the new land required to gain entry to the yard. B,C being where the incline to the tar dock started.

I think that is correct?

 

Jon

Morning Jon, yeah its definitely an artists interpretation, and its stuck in my head....

 

This must be referring to the land needed for the yard and incline, like you say. Interesting how the siding to the tar dock seems to be annotated as 'referred to in principle agreement' so i wonder when it was put in, or if it refers to the whole of the sidings being altered to suit the narrow gauge going in? I think the sidings were already there before the NG line for traction engines to collect the coal for road transport, not sure when the sidings were constructed.

Once again more questions!

 

Edit, i have just put an enquiry into to the national gas archives to see if they have anything, would be great to see proper builders plans.. lets see

 

Edited by jessy1692
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I’ve made progress with the mock up.....and added some (over bright!) colour to hopefully explain what is what. It is fair to say the the mock up has grown in scope...was intended as just the tar dock but now includes the start of the coal drop yard. The overall thing is now just under 1 metre long....what you see here will fill most of one board.

 

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This image is looking north ( basically).

Bottom of the picture the bare cardboard going left to right is Bilton Lane. 

At the same level as the Lane is the standard gauge siding. 

On the dock there was a narrow gauge track running along the right hand side. The access was via a turnout two thirds of the way along. The access track came in over the bridge top centre. 

Top right of the picture are the two other standard gauge sidings - one called the depot siding ( over the coal drops), the other called number one siding ( for reception of wagons).

 

 

0A21179E-4FB9-48C3-A7E5-CF93A1CFC268.jpeg.bf07bb1680686f20a857ba6c1e696488.jpeg

 

This image is looking South.......imagine that the photographer is hovering over the coal yard around about where the drops are!

There was access from Bilton Lane to the coal yard. This was why there was the bridge to the tar dock. Originally all the coal went by road using traction engines. I think that road haulage continued to be used throughout to supplement the railway traffic. This access dropped at approximately 1 in 10 to the coal yard.

The Narrow gauge line had to climb from the low level coal yard to the bridge. I think that this incline will be at 1 in 25 or so....steep for a steam loco.

 

Colour key

grey = stone

cream = concrete

brown= Rail tracks ( mainly)

green = “scenery”

 

Jon

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Just as an experiment here is a view from the current scene and compared to the mock up.

 

The current view along the north end of the tar dock looking towards the the incline and abutments

 

6872D4EF-D38F-4C05-8472-D6C81B333533.jpeg.645c1df154e595007cb1fe49d85a71b4.jpeg

 

 

The mock up view - I can’t get in as close to the wall as in reality

 

730D753B-D570-40BF-8818-9188B91AB2E5.jpeg.aa9ce84f2d668d7e0908804829716960.jpeg

 

Wider view to show where we are ( looking along the cream wall left to right)

 

 

E4ABBEB2-7876-4E7D-A79A-35A3FF1DE0DF.jpeg.b98f11bc44e651149a294ff5839e7dc0.jpeg

 

I think that the angle of the bridge bridge is about right based on this.

 

The combination of curves and inclines on the narrow gauge will be a good test of my track laying ability.......

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Had a play around with the mock up and the baseboard. 

 

5B321094-707A-44A9-838E-25D06B2642FC.jpeg.335cb00cc0ba692d9c738cc8c35e282b.jpeg

 

Main line ( double track) will be on the plywood base up the centre of the boards. 

At this end Bilton Lane crosses the main line via a level crossing. Signal Box will be on the far side of the main line about where the first board cross member is.

 

From the other end

B77F3846-92FB-4C77-857B-6412C66EEDAA.jpeg.87170d92ea673141b9a1c025417f4b98.jpeg

 

The first piece of track base board will be placed in the corner. It will form the base for the narrow gauge coal yard. It will have to extend about 8” out to the right of the baseboard to accommodate the incline.

From this lowest level all the other heights will be plotted. Thankfully the process of building the mock up means that I know what heights are required.....at least I think I do:D

 

Jon

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  • 3 weeks later...

Didn’t think it was three weeks since last posting on here. Hot weather and other “ stuff” to do has stopped modelling activity. This week I had a weeks holiday and the weather was ....changeable. So got on with some finishing off and tidying up.

 

A43DE49E-F5BF-4708-ACC5-A0B3CA76ACBA.jpeg.15dfa51742a6a33b9f489a302ede3dbe.jpeg

 

 

Paint on but needs some touching up in places. Had trouble with air brush splatter ( smokebox) but when weathered will be ok I think. This loco is still fighting me. It doesn’t like curves because the bogie is not swivelling freely. And today it went really slowly when tested. It will end up as unloved as the real thing was!

 

C00D6F23-8822-4F10-B7BB-76B2C50E5315.jpeg.90a9027b49e505b6a22f3d48d202b0f3.jpeg

 

First part of teaking underway!

 

 

Finally ventured into York and bought a whole one piece of plastikard

 

D30C757A-BB64-45AC-A259-894D534799AB.jpeg.bb3ac16fbb9f5c2dac968d895a6a9afa.jpeg

 

The relief on the 7mm stone is much more like what I want. Quite like either of the paint finishes as well.

 

Same colours on the 4mm don’t work so well

 

BEB44624-85E6-4AA9-BC99-8201DD2E5D67.jpeg.dda436ac172cc878d5696db8d3b2fd1e.jpeg

 

I will try with a base coat of white first to see if that helps. Roughening the sheet with sandpaper has helped the dry brushing of soot - but I still need to try some more distressing to get the look I want ( or else it is a case of carving the wall out of clay...)

 

I’ve tried quite a few finishes on the 4mm sheet so far....

 

5BE7FB51-A8DB-41AA-B728-4D3657D12AB1.jpeg.5265710ec05d2a7a483902b151f5e63f.jpeg

 

Jon

 

 

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Ooh its green! Nice shade, will look great with a bit of weathering. I recall having bother with front bogie too, i ended up re bending the arm that connects it to the chassis as i think it was pushing the bogie down so the front wheelset easily came off the rails. It was a pig to get running ok but it is worth persevering. If the motor starts playing up its and easy job to pop a newer one in.

 

Stonework looking good, i think i used 7mm stuff too but it was a sand stone coloured plastic i had which was then blathered in mucky colours and wiped off. It was a long while ago now so ill be watching with interest in case my need re doing.

 

Great update.

All the best 

James

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Ade, James

 

Thanks for the positive comments about the loco colour. It will be toned down by the weathering and the name plates (with red background) are on order.

 

It’s a real shame that there is only the 7mm stone with that relief. The 4mm is perfect for height of the courses. Problem is that without the relief the dry brushing of soot is not very effective. I’m going to carry on with experiments on the 4mm stuff to see if I can do anything.

 

Jon

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  • 3 weeks later...

Been slow with the modelling recently. 

 

I have now, finally, weathered and coaled Spencer

 

2F7B07C0-1709-430D-A22C-C83642168790.jpeg.4235af569651d817b3348c8fb20b165d.jpeg

 

3E1663AE-C22D-4C44-95E9-C3F8720F01C4.jpeg.1ee4b316f8c9ea39f277f278935a8075.jpeg

 

I need to to find a driver to cover up the motor in the cab (this side is the one that will be seen on the layout). Also just realised I need to put something on the coupling rod/ middle wheel to cover up that big hole!

 

When the nameplates arrive they’ll add a splash of colour.

 

Jon

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1 hour ago, jessy1692 said:

In my head Spencer is black

All the best

James

 

Hi James

 

Thanks for the compliment.

 

Well I know that Spencer was actually black......but in the book it says Spencer was possibly painted green in later life. Given an inch I take a mile:)

I wanted a care worn look for this loco, after all it wasn’t very popular by all accounts, and so may not have been cleaned much.

 

Jon

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40 minutes ago, AdeMoore said:

Like the green and the weathering looks spot on.

Running ok?

 Cheers 

Ade

 

Hi Ade

 

The last time I ran it, things were better. I think the model will imitate real life....it will get used when all other options are exhausted!

 

The real test will be to see if it will run through points slowly and then push wagons up the incline. For those tests I need a layout:)

 

The problem with the bogie seems to be with the pivot beam connection to the chassis. It can stick either left or right, which pushes the bogie off centre. As long as I make sure it is facing straight ahead things seem to work ok. I’ll get a picture to illustrate it. (See next post) The design of the kit means I can’t do much about this problem though....

 

Roll on a kit of Barber....

 

Jon

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