New Wales and Borders Franchise

[DIRTY DIESEL]

It would probably make sense to set up a mini-"depot" at Llandudno Junction, which would be capable of serving the Chester route with perhaps limited ECS or even in service running, the Blaenau branch and a bit further afield, reach Bidston via Chester.  Or set up a base actually at Chester.  Both locations have siding space and road access and it would avoid the trains becoming target practice for the local scrotes in Wrexham and Blaenau.  Not that I'm suggesting both places are as rough as - well you get my drift.

Unfortunately the yard at Junction is a jungle thanks to the up keep of EWS/DB, we can still get into the Quay sidings just but there’s no road access unless you come in from the overgrown yard. The only other place you could stable a unit would be the Tamper Sdg which you require a MOM to operate the GF, road access would be from station car park. We use the Bay platform to stable but how you’d fuel the unit would be a problem.

 

We are sick to death of telling every manager/ top brass about the farce of Junction yard over the last 20 years, as this out stabling would’ve been perfect if it hadn’t been left to the state it’s now I n.

 

Ironically the last train I put in there was an EWS class 90 as it had been left attached by mistake after Brum to Crewe drags back in 2003/4 when the HSTs went off lease with VT....

 

The last tamper we stabled in BF loop overnight needed security as it got vandalised...

[Edwin_m]

Not sure whether they will cope with the windy hilly route, and whether they will sit down and get stuck into the track twists without slipping to a stand and squealing badly.  I know an experienced footplateman whose steam engine was overpowered by the gradients and had to divide the train and run in two portions. Granted the 230 will have traction motors on the powered axles and no carrying wheels, but it is a nasty and unforgiving route.        

It was built for the curves and gradients of the District Line, which have got to be as bad as anything on the national network. 

[Zomboid]

Unfortunately the yard at Junction is a jungle thanks to the up keep of EWS/DB, we can still get into the Quay sidings just but there’s no road access unless you come in from the overgrown yard. The only other place you could stable a unit would be the Tamper Sdg which you require a MOM to operate the GF, road access would be from station car park. We use the Bay platform to stable but how you’d fuel the unit would be a problem.

 

We are sick to death of telling every manager/ top brass about the farce of Junction yard over the last 20 years, as this out stabling would’ve been perfect if it hadn’t been left to the state it’s now I n.

Vegetation clearance isn't exactly insurmountable. The track might need attention, but it's unlikely that it'll be impossible to provide the basic servicing that these things need at Llandudno junction if the TOC consider it worthwhile. Might be possible at Llandudno, too.

[TangerineWizards]

I think I've read the Class 230's will be serviced in a depot in Chester and the Junction. I can't remember which TfW press release said it though!!

 

Of course Wrexham has the old Wrexham and Shropshire stabling facilities in the bay sidings at the south of the station which might be capable of something slightly more intense than cleaning with some investment? Or with a joined up thinking railway, Birkenhead North TMD is 2 minutes up the line from Bidston...

[DIRTY DIESEL]

Vegetation clearance isn't exactly insurmountable. The track might need attention, but it's unlikely that it'll be impossible to provide the basic servicing that these things need at Llandudno junction if the TOC consider it worthwhile. Might be possible at Llandudno, too.

Think the problem is that they are now full blown trees and the trunks have come though the sleepers, the track in there is the original yard from steam days bar the Fly Ash Road laid in1983.

The whole lot would need relaying, if they could even relay just one road to gain access to Glan Conwy Freight Dept then they have a ready made servicing area with road access and hard standing, plus the bonus of getting rid of Lock Stock Storage off railway land....

[Mark_A]

Last run?

 

I believe it's going over to three times a day each way with Mk 4's replacing the Mk 3's.

Good. Will the new franchise retain the on board catering, does anyone know?

[phil-b259]

Vegetation clearance isn't exactly insurmountable. The track might need attention, but it's unlikely that it'll be impossible to provide the basic servicing that these things need at Llandudno junction if the TOC consider it worthwhile. Might be possible at Llandudno, too.

 

No vegetation clearance, or trackwork is not insurmountable. However it is rather misleading to assume that is all you need to do.

 

West Worthing sidings was recently cleared of vegetation and had the trackwork repaired, only for the first unit to be berthed there to end up like this

 

https://www.worthingherald.co.uk/news/police-investigate-graffiti-damage-to-17m-train-in-worthing-1-8524051

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-44411024

 

Unless the stabling area has decent security (which may well require a 24/7 security guards) then its far to risky for TOCs to leave stuff overnight.

Edited June 10, 2018 by phil-b259

[Coryton]

Good. Will the new franchise retain the on board catering, does anyone know?

 

I have read that this is the case....but I don't recall what the source of the information was.

[DavidB-AU]

Wales & Borders train and tram-train contract signed

 

 

https://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/wales-borders-train-and-tram-train-contract-signed.html

[Signaller69]

Wales & Borders train and tram-train contract signed

 

 

https://www.railjournal.com/index.php/rolling-stock/wales-borders-train-and-tram-train-contract-signed.html

Interesting read. Regarding the Vivarail class 230s, it says five 3-car units will be supplied for North Wales. If the Wrexham - Bidston service is to go to a half hourly timetable in the next couple of years as planned and if these units are indeed used for this service, then this would tie up four of them - presumably with the fifth as a spare to cover maintainence / failure, in which case a servicing facility in the Wrexham area would be logical.

[Merfyn Jones]

Interesting read. Regarding the Vivarail class 230s, it says five 3-car units will be supplied for North Wales. If the Wrexham - Bidston service is to go to a half hourly timetable in the next couple of years as planned and if these units are indeed used for this service, then this would tie up four of them - presumably with the fifth as a spare to cover maintainence / failure, in which case a servicing facility in the Wrexham area would be logical.

 

The way I interpret it is that the 5 x 230 units for Bidston will coincide with the new deliveries arriving for Blaenau and Crewe to replace 230s.

[matt-b]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are..

 

Every franchise seems to be promising new trains at the moment, so in say 7 or 8 years time what's going to happen to all the pacers, 150, 153, 156, 158, 159, 170, 175 units?

Will they save a few and be warmed stored or is it a full on scrap and buy new era what we look to be in?

 

Thanks, Matt

[jim.snowdon]

I may be wrong, but the whole franchise process seems to be designed to reward bidders who promise new rolling stock, with no consideration for what happens to the existing stock. That the stock is leased doesn't help as there is no ownership of the asset by the train operator.

 

Jim

[black and decker boy]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are..

 

Every franchise seems to be promising new trains at the moment, so in say 7 or 8 years time what's going to happen to all the pacers, 150, 153, 156, 158, 159, 170, 175 units?

Will they save a few and be warmed stored or is it a full on scrap and buy new era what we look to be in?

 

Thanks, Matt

Pacers are scrap. 1st withdrawals by end of 2018, the bulk by end of 2019. Few should bounce on into 2020 providing the cascades / conversions happen on time

 

As for the 15x, they are all (except 153) receiving refurbishment and PRM mods so are secure for the life of their current franchises. Who can predict what state UK finances, franchising or Politics will be at the end of those franchises, however, being products of the 1980s they will all have reached the end of their design life.

 

Scotrail are taking a number (5 I think) of class 153 to convert to passenger luggage vans for the West Highland with its walkers, rucksacks and bikes for use from 2019 attached to the normal class 156.

Edited August 27, 2018 by black and decker boy

[Great Western]

Good. Will the new franchise retain the on board catering, does anyone know?

The RMT have secured the integration of the catering crews from arm length At Seat Catering to full Wales & Borders employment so yes.

[Zomboid]

Just wondering what people's thoughts are..

 

Every franchise seems to be promising new trains at the moment, so in say 7 or 8 years time what's going to happen to all the pacers, 150, 153, 156, 158, 159, 170, 175 units?

Will they save a few and be warmed stored or is it a full on scrap and buy new era what we look to be in?

 

Thanks, Matt

Many of them will find work somewhere on the network, though the older sprinter types are over 30 years old and will be closer to 35 by the time they're finally replaced, so they probably don't owe anyone anything.

The real madness is the various relatively new fleets being replaced, such as the brand new 707s and some of the 379s.

[TangerineWizards]

Whilst passing my local station today on the Wrexham-Bidston line, I noticed some high-viz cladded workers changing the Arriva Trains Wales branding to Transport for Wales logos.

 

The end of turquoise is neigh. 

[Nick G]

Whilst passing my local station today on the Wrexham-Bidston line, I noticed some high-viz cladded workers changing the Arriva Trains Wales branding to Transport for Wales logos.

 

The end of turquoise is neigh. 

 

 

 

Same thing was happening on the North Wales coast line today.

[Coryton]

 

The end of turquoise is neigh. 

 

And, it seems, the end of using a different colour for Welsh and English on station signage.

 

With the old scheme it was reasonably obvious that it wasn't all part of one name, whereas a sign saying "Radur Radyr" all in the same colour is a bit less clear.

 

On the other hand it's not in the hideous font with weird "d"'s that they use on their web site.

[wombatofludham]

The new franchise hasn't even begun yet and already a train is running round in the new colours. (Photo from Flickr)

The new livery for Transport for Wales on 175107 on the 1V37 08.31 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven passing Grafton,Hereford on the 08-10-2018 by Robert, on Flickr

Edited October 9, 2018 by wombatofludham

[newbryford]

The new franchise hasn't even begun yet and already a train is running round in the new colours. (Photo from Flickr)

 

The new livery for Transport for Wales on 175107 on the 1V37 08.31 Manchester Piccadilly to Milford Haven passing Grafton,Hereford on the 08-10-2018 by Robert, on Flickr

 

Would it have been more patriotic relevant to use green for the window band?

[wombatofludham]

I did think the lack of green was noticeable, although I'm glad they've not copied the Traws Cymru bus livery of a very rancid industrial shade of green and white.  A green stripe under the black in the style of ReggieRail or Intercity would have lifted it but I have to say it does look rather nice with the dark window band.

[31A]

It seems you can have any colour as long as it's white for train liveries these days.

[Zomboid]

At least they have the window band.

 

It's near indistinguishable from what Virgin are having to use without it.

[Hesperus]

I spotted that the other day and had a minor WTF is that moment.

 

Oh yes it's the same as 90% of the other trains on the Marches line but a different colour

 

I don't know if there has been a recent change but I've seen 2 5 car 175 workings recently and I can't think when I've seen that before.  My yard at work gives a nice view of the line but is too far for worthwhile photos on a phone.