Jump to content
 

Model Rail announce GWR Class 1600 0-6-0PT via Rapido


sem34090
 Share

Recommended Posts

The video has been taken down from MR's Facebook page as it is not a satisfactory running sample and was intended purely for static photography. I will mail a different sample to the photographer ASAP as I have two that are now well run-in. Indeed, today I have been running one with a 30-wagon train. (CJL)

  • Like 8
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

Is there a release date yet for these please Chris ?

No, we don't give release dates as it is impossible to know when models will be delivered in the current situation. We are currently reviewing livery samples and once these are revised where necessary and passed, we can Ok production but that doesn't necessarily mean it will start right away. Rapido currently has a formidable programme of its own which was delayed by the virus crisis in the early part of the year but which is now catching up. (CJL)

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a bit of my (very much amateur) video taken during some test running of two livery samples. I have since run both locos successfully with a 30-wagon train and the black one has gone in the mail so that Chris Nevard can re-shoot his video. (CJL)

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
19 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Here's a bit of my (very much amateur) video taken during some test running of two livery samples. I have since run both locos successfully with a 30-wagon train and the black one has gone in the mail so that Chris Nevard can re-shoot his video. (CJL)

 

Nice! No doubt the model railway police will be visiting shortly......

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
20 hours ago, dibber25 said:

Here's a bit of my (very much amateur) video taken during some test running of two livery samples. I have since run both locos successfully with a 30-wagon train and the black one has gone in the mail so that Chris Nevard can re-shoot his video. (CJL)

Nice layout Chris - tell us more please.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The green looks a little bit garish if it's based on the livery 7754 carried.

 

Looks closer to the Dapol N Gauge version than the Bachmann one. The real 7754 was nearer to the latter.

 

https://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-zznSsxC/A

 

https://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-VPmC8pV/A

 

Yes. I know it's fictional.   :)

 

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

The green looks a little bit garish if it's based on the livery 7754 carried.

 

Looks closer to the Dapol N Gauge version than the Bachmann one. The real 7754 was nearer to the latter.

 

https://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-zznSsxC/A

 

https://plumbloco.smugmug.com/Trains/British-Industrial-Systems/i-VPmC8pV/A

 

Yes. I know it's fictional.   :)

 

 

 

Jason

It's going to be toned down and revised, I believe. It's illegal to send paint to America and if you're sending swatches you're reliant on other people matching them. In fact, I have photos of 7754 and, bearing in mind that the real thing was very faded and discoloured, the green on the model is  a lot closer than it seems. However, the livery is fictitious, because a pannier in the condition that most of the NCB ones were, would not be very saleable. (Photographic evidence suggests that most remained in BR black with BR logos but in poor condition and with missing numberplates). The one black & white photo of 1607 that I've seen, currently being widely circulated on the internet, shows the loco apparently in green but very dilapidated, with missing handrails etc, and that would not be an acceptable way to present the model. (CJL)

Edited by dibber25
  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Nice layout Chris - tell us more please.

It's my layout at home, always in a state of flux and incomplete. The (Bolventor) station seen in the clips is the most recent revamp, using the Oxford Structures Moreton-in-Marsh building with a better roof and chimneys. The area at the end with the buses all parked up, was an airfield but has been stripped ready for some fresh scenic work. The other station (St. Petrock) has the SR station at Bishopstone as its main feature and needs renovating and completing. Round the outside of the whole thing is an 'HO' layout based on Canadian practice, of which the main feature is a model of the Kinsol trestle (the largest surviving wooden bridge in the Commonwealth) - it took 7 years on and off to build it and may contain as many as 7,000 individual pieces of balsa wood. It could possibly be one of the largest HO scale timber trestles in the World. (CJL)

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
8 hours ago, dibber25 said:

It's my layout at home, always in a state of flux and incomplete. The (Bolventor) station seen in the clips is the most recent revamp, using the Oxford Structures Moreton-in-Marsh building with a better roof and chimneys. The area at the end with the buses all parked up, was an airfield but has been stripped ready for some fresh scenic work. The other station (St. Petrock) has the SR station at Bishopstone as its main feature and needs renovating and completing. Round the outside of the whole thing is an 'HO' layout based on Canadian practice, of which the main feature is a model of the Kinsol trestle (the largest surviving wooden bridge in the Commonwealth) - it took 7 years on and off to build it and may contain as many as 7,000 individual pieces of balsa wood. It could possibly be one of the largest HO scale timber trestles in the World. (CJL)

Thanks Chris. I've seen your mentions of it (them) in the magazine but not in so much detail. Always happy to read and see more!

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pictures of painted models in the latest Model Rail (fell through letter box today) - what is noticeable is how far the front tension lock projects and then the fact than the NEM pocket is protruding forward of the buffer beam. Looks like the rarely used No,17 will be needed by Kadee users and is an obvious model where a NEM 363 mount would be more appropriate (as used via ViTrains) although obviously in terms of Kadees it would be matter of trimming of plastic to fit, or using a third party adaptor.

Edited by Butler Henderson
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Pictures of painted models in the latest Model Rail (fell through letter box today) - what is noticeable is how far the front tension lock projects and then the fact than the NEM pocket is protruding forward of the buffer beam. Looks like the rarely used No,17 will be needed by Kadee users and is an obvious model where a NEM 363 mount would be more appropriate (as used via ViTrains) although obviously in terms of Kadees it would be matter of trimming of plastic to fit, or using a third party adaptor.

 

I think its already been covered that the NEM pocket was being fixed but featured on the decoration samples as they use the original EP model. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

 

I think its already been covered that the NEM pocket was being fixed but featured on the decoration samples as they use the original EP model. 

Might have been useful if they had specifically stated that in the magazine. It does refer to work to correct minor issues .

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Butler Henderson said:

Might have been useful if they had specifically stated that in the magazine. It does refer to work to correct minor issues .

That was an assumption made by someone posting on RMweb. The livery samples are not EPs, they are pre-production models and the minor issues relate to livery.  (CJL)

Link to post
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

At the end of the day we all want the best possible model for the price.

That's what we're aiming for. Moving the coupler mount would have involved major redesign of the cast chassis block and the cost would have scuppered the project. My personal view - and I stress that it is just my view -  is that anyone with major concerns about the front end appearance of any loco will be using a scale screw coupling anyway. I've sent one of the two samples I had (and had given a thorough running-in) to the photographer and he has prepared a new video clip which will hopefully be on the Model Rail FB page before too long. (CJL)

  • Like 4
  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 08/07/2020 at 06:14, dibber25 said:

That's what we're aiming for. Moving the coupler mount would have involved major redesign of the cast chassis block and the cost would have scuppered the project. My personal view - and I stress that it is just my view -  is that anyone with major concerns about the front end appearance of any loco will be using a scale screw coupling anyway. I've sent one of the two samples I had (and had given a thorough running-in) to the photographer and he has prepared a new video clip which will hopefully be on the Model Rail FB page before too long. (CJL)

Considering that was about a week ago, there is still no new video up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 08/07/2020 at 11:14, dibber25 said:

 My personal view - and I stress that it is just my view -  is that anyone with major concerns about the front end appearance of any loco will be using a scale screw coupling anyway.

 

Now that is a straight cop-out! I don't use scale screw couplings as I prefer the Peco / Hornby Dublo type - which I nowadays mount in the NEM pocket so that a future owner can revert to a tension-lock if desired.

 

The incorrect location of the NEM pocket on this forthcoming model means that anyone fitting ANY type of coupling into the pocket will have a gaping gap between the loco and the first vehicle. It's NOT just about the front end appearance of the loco - which will look odd - it's about a sensible relationship between loco and train.

 

I'm sorry, but this is another example of "It's too difficult / expensive to do it properly - we'll let the customer sort it out".

 

My solution will be to cut the excess off the NEM pocket, and devise a means of fitting a coupler into the remainder - but I shouldn't have to do so!

 

John Isherwood.

Edited by cctransuk
  • Agree 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
39 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Now that is a straight cop-out! I don't use scale screw couplings as I prefer the Peco / Hornby Dublo type - which I nowadays mount in the NEM pocket so that a future owner can revert to a tension-lock if desired.

 

The incorrect location of the NEM pocket on this forthcoming model means that anyone fitting ANY type ofcoupling into the pocket will have a gaping gap between the loco and the first vehicle. It's NOT just about the front end appearance of the loco - which will look odd - it's about a sensible relationship between loco and train.

 

I'm sorry, but this is another example of "It's too difficult / expensive to do it properly - we'll let the customer sort it out".

 

My solution will be to cut the excess off the NEM pocket, and devise a means of fitting a coupler into the remainder - but I shouldn't have to do so!

 

John Isherwood.

 

I can't agree more. By the time it's chipped and weathered this is going to be a £200 pannier. That's too much for something that needs hacking about as soon as it comes out of the box... Before anyone say's I can do that but I'll choose not to as I have far too many half finished jobs already. 

 

On this basis I have reluctantly cancelled my pre order. If I buy wisely I can have two Bachmann 8750's for that money. Not in the same class but just as much use. 

  • Agree 1
  • Friendly/supportive 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

It would be interesting to know the price for this small panier had it been produced by Hornby or Bachmann. At £150.00 I am able to afford it but unwilling to pay. This company undoubtedly produces high quality/high spec locos but their prices are always eye watering -see their RDC in HO scale. Had the 16xx  been closer to  £100 i would have bought two!

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Pricing is an area which - on the face of it - we know relatively little about  The most directly comparatively loco, i.e GWR pannier tank newly tooled for 2020 release, is the Bachmann 94XX with a Bachmann retail price tag of £129.95.  But just how valid a comparison is it?  Judging by all the previous Bachmann pannier variants the 94XX will move in and out of the catalogue for several years to come and in any event coming from a major r-t-r manufacturer it will be tapping a potentially larger market than a 'Model Rail' special which means a potentially larger initial run plus future runs over which cost can be recovered (although Kader start to amortise their tooling cost in the year a model is released - which is not the same as repaying the total investment cost in that year).

 

In contrast 'MR' probably has to make a clear profit plus a contribution to overheads in the financial year the model is released  - in part because it lies outside the core business of magazine sales but no doubt far more importantly because it can't afford to  carry the development and tooling cost forward as a debit on its books.   Secondly the 16XX is a commission which is not exactly the same thing in cost terms as a model being produced for the subsidiary of a business - Bachmann being a subsidiary of Kader, who sell the models to Bachmann.  A commissioned model involves charges raised by the concern handling the commission, it is not just a simple relationship with a factory because there is an intermediary, in the shape of Rapido, between MR and the factory and obviously Rapido incur costs and wish to do the job at a profit to themselves.

 

But undoubtedly the biggest factor isl probably be volume.   For the sake of illustration and some simple maths let's assume the total cost to 'MR' is £200,000 for its 16XXs - covering development, tooling, commission;  but not production, packaging, and distribution etc.   So if 'MR' buy 1,000 locos the cost to them will be £200 per loco plus the manufacturing etc costs.  And that is before any of their costs are covered let alone a margin for profit   So let's say they order 5,000 - then the cost to them, without manufacturing etc costs, would be £40 per loco.   Without allowing for actually making the locos and getting them to us you can immediately see how the number made will have a significant impact on the price.

 

We obviously don't know how many they will buy but there appear to be 22 versions catering for detail, running number, and livery differences (that immediately equals more development costs).  Let's again for the sake of argument assume they order 250 of each variant (which is likely to be the lowest number per variant which the factory will accept) so that means a total order of 5,500 locos which means the cost of covering development etc will come in at just under £37 (if my £200,000 number is anywhere near accurate, if that number is, say, £250,000 then it will come at £45 per loco.  

 

Doesn't sound much does it but now we need to add the cost of producing the model, with quite a number of hand fitted small parts so I'll pluck a figure out of the air to save doing some research and estimate £70 per loco - on top of the original £37 we are now looking at £107 per loco as it sits waiting to be packed in its box with instructions etc - say a fiver (although it will probably be less so I'll allow the fiver for packaging plus getting it to quayside in China ). total £112.  Now it has to be shipped to England - shipping is relatively cheap on a per loco basis so it will probably add a couple of quid - let's say £3 to be on the safe side.  Right so coming off the ship at a UK port the cost per loco is £115.

 

Now it has to be Customs cleared (no duty to pay) and transported to Cornwall for distribution, adminisitration of orders, and then packed, and posted to us - and note we are not paying for the postage to most UK addresses - and the firm which does that for 'MR' needs not only the material to do the job but has to be paid for doing it.   I don't really know but including the postage cost we are probably looking a getting on for at least £ 6 -7 per loco - which brings the cost on the back of my fag packet to £122 per loco to which we add VAT at 20% - so a total of £146.40 leaving a gross profit of £2.60 per loco.  That might sound a lot but don't forget out of that £2,60 has to come 'MR's development and research costs plus the overheads incurred on those costs including no doubt an allowance for currency fluctuation..

 

Some of my numbers will inevitably be adrift but some of them based on past information won't be far off the mark.  similarly I suspect that 'MR' will probably be ordering 500 of some variants so the total manufactured will probably be higher but even so 5,500 is a pretty big number for first run commissioned model.  But the point of it all is to show that there is an awful lot of cost involved at most stages of development and manufacture plus the cost of then getting the model to us.  And of course if some variants move slowly there will be a cost to carry on them.  All in all I don't reckon that £149 is very far off the mark for a commissioned 0-6-0T model to the best of current r-t-r standard especially when looking at the present price of the $US against the £.

 

Regrettably the simple fact will always remain that if you can't afford the retail price then you will not buy the model - that has been the case since model railways first appeared in the market place

  • Like 6
  • Informative/Useful 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...