Jump to content
 

Model Rail announce GWR Class 1600 0-6-0PT via Rapido


sem34090
 Share

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi David,

 

I'll no doubt be discussing the conversion with John in due course. I'm also considering getting a second one for conversion to P4.

 

One thing to consider with the model 'as is', is that the way to get to the motor (eg. to install a DCC chip), is to unscrew the tank assembly, so in other words, the footplate (which is plastic) remains attached to the chassis.

 

No doubt the whole thing can be completely dismantled, but this seems (at first sight) to be different from the Bachmann approach, where a couple of screws allow you to remove the complete body, leaving the complete chassis and motor as a separate item.

 

So getting to the situation where you have a complete body, ready to accept a replacement chassis, might involve a bit more work that (say) a Bachmann 57XX, 64XX or 94XX.

 

That said, the body is really rather good and certainly worthy of conversion.

 

I'd have thought that the ideal chassis option would be to go for the NuCast Partners 16XX etched N/S chassis kit (designed by Justin Newitt). This is very good indeed and is the one now supplied with the old Cotswold (later NuCast) whitemetal body kit and is available as a separate item from NuCast Partners or Branchlines. This is how I would convert one of these locos to P4, resulting in the RTR chassis being sold on.

 

John's method has merit, however, and using 2mm axles and the existing final drive gear wheel, bushed up to 1/8" for the AG or Ultrascale driving wheels, should be feasible.

 

I suspect that some material may need to be removed from the inside of the splashers (plastic), in order to give a little bit more sideplay, depending on the kind of curves you are expecting to run the loco over. At least there seems to be a little more room in the 16XX splashers as compared with the new Bachmann 94XX, which will require metal being machined away, in order to fit EM or P4 wheels.

 

Thanks for that. I would be doing it for RC so I  wouldn't need the DCC gubbins. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I've just noticed that my chosen renumber 1608 has a white A power class displayed. Further info is given here

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html . Just wondering if there's a source for these as a transfer, I've never seen the A in white , just black on the HMRS sheet.

It seems that not all the '16XXs' carried the 'A' power class and the model is generally decorated according to photos. I have a random half dozen here - Nos. 1646/1655/1664 have the A. Nos. 1609/1661 don't have it. The power class was usually black on a coloured route availability circle. The 16XX was uncoloured (so unrestricted weight-wise) and consequently does not have a coloured circle, just the weight code. I have not been able to find a white transfer as such, but if you have a collection of part-used decal sheets you may find something that will do the job. I looked through my drawer of left-over decals and - For instance, Cambridge Custom Transfers sheet BL166C - Toad brake van markings - has lots of place names with the letter A in them that looks about the right size. (CJL)

  • Like 2
  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I've just noticed that my chosen renumber 1608 has a white A power class displayed. Further info is given here

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html . Just wondering if there's a source for these as a transfer, I've never seen the A in white , just black on the HMRS sheet.

Railtec do a complete ex-GWR loco transfer pack which includes the power classification circle. I'd message them first to be sure, and I've never bought anything from them, but given some of what they've written on this fourm they seem to do their research so would probably make sure the white A was provided. Might have to wait a while for a response though, as they seem to be really busy.

  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold
17 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Railtec do a complete ex-GWR loco transfer pack which includes the power classification circle. I'd message them first to be sure, and I've never bought anything from them, but given some of what they've written on this fourm they seem to do their research so would probably make sure the white A was provided. Might have to wait a while for a response though, as they seem to be really busy.

 

A further internet search finds this sheet already available from Fox, although you only get one pair.

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/power-classification-route-availability-codes-white

  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Hi Guys,

 

If anyone is still / now having problems with the performance of their 16XX can you drop me a note letting me know what DCC system you're using?

 

I'm still in communication with Rapido and I want to check something.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke 

If there is a problem with the model, you should really notify Model Rail initially, rather than dealing direct with the manufacturer. (CJL)

  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

If there is a problem with the model, you should really notify Model Rail initially, rather than dealing direct with the manufacturer. (CJL)

Hi Chris,

 

That was my first thought but the Contact page give e-mails for Subscriptions, Advertising and Editorial, and a Contact  Form for questions about orders.

 

There wasn't a option for technical problems / trouble shooting.

 

So far there have been 13 e-mail where I have been involved and at least 4 more that I know of including a couple to the factory in China.

 

Something is clearly up in at least a few cases and Andy and I are trying to work out what, why and how often.

 

I was just trying to see what the pattern is.

 

I'm going to get back to Andy this evening with an up-date to the questions he asked me.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

Hi Chris,

 

That was my first thought but the Contact page give e-mails for Subscriptions, Advertising and Editorial, and a Contact  Form for questions about orders.

 

There wasn't a option for technical problems / trouble shooting.

 

So far there have been 13 e-mail where I have been involved and at least 4 more that I know of including a couple to the factory in China.

 

Something is clearly up in at least a few cases and Andy and I are trying to work out what, why and how often.

 

I was just trying to see what the pattern is.

 

I'm going to get back to Andy this evening with an up-date to the questions he asked me.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

The problem with going direct to Rapido is that Model Rail is the commissioner of this product. Rapido UK was not involved at all. We at Model Rail need to know if there are faulty models, and to keep track of how many, and what the faults are. There may be significant cost implications for Model Rail and we also need to be able to assess the extent of the problem. There is no address for technical problems because the models are commissioned and progressed by the editorial team. At the present time, we are 'out of the loop' with regard to the particular problem with your model and when we are discussing future products that's not a good position to be in. I appreciate that Rapido staff are very approachable but this is a Model Rail product, made for us by Rapido, and it was bought from Model Rail. We may well need to seek technical advice from Rapido but we have channels for doing that. If a model is defective, it should be returned to Kernow MRC for replacement. (CJL)

Edited by dibber25
  • Agree 3
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While I understand/agree that Model Rail should be the first point of contact for problems, a blanket "return to Kernow" isn't very friendly/convenient - particularly for anyone who has had it shipped outside of the UK, or even for those inside the UK who don't want to / can't risk a trip to a post office to ship it under current conditions.

  • Like 2
  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, mdvle said:

While I understand/agree that Model Rail should be the first point of contact for problems, a blanket "return to Kernow" isn't very friendly/convenient - particularly for anyone who has had it shipped outside of the UK, or even for those inside the UK who don't want to / can't risk a trip to a post office to ship it under current conditions.

 

If you buy a kettle and it doesn't work it goes back to Argos/Tesco/John Lewis/etc.

 

You don't send it back to Morphy Richards. You deal with the retailer who sold it to you.

 

That's the way UK consumer law works I'm afraid.

 

 

Jason

  • Agree 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Today I started dis-assembling the loco to see if I can use the chassis for something else. Perhaps these photos are of use to someone.

 

As mentioned by CK above, the upper part comes off without the footplate:

 

IMG_20210223_150658297_HDR.jpg.d856369a8c637b718913788f2341edd6.jpg

 

 

IMG_20210223_150743355_HDR.jpg.fa402307afbd50302670917589de78c4.jpg

 

 

Top weight removed and hair flowing loose:

 

IMG_20210223_151503260_HDR.jpg.30e68c2bf979a58dc852e33265033103.jpg

 

 

The drive is embedded in a big chunky weight which fills out the panniers. According to the exploded diagram the weight is one single block, but it is not clear how it might be removed. It's quite integrated with the rest of the structure.

 

IMG_20210223_152110276_HDR.jpg.c68b063aa6dab614a5a5962402abb441.jpg

 

 

The weight block is a challenge for my hopes to use the chassis for a 2021 ST conversion. The 16xx tanks were positioned lower than the 2021s, and so there is weight block where there should be air. I haven't given up yet though!

 

IMG_20210223_195611784_HDR.jpg.2cd4de4d52f44b43470d2d397ee9b941.jpg

 

 

 A few shots from below.

 

IMG_20210223_151817754_HDR.jpg.36a342445f7c27337b37f98e2327423e.jpg

 

 

IMG_20210223_200256341_HDR.jpg.0d0624e313303e170d840b98874209d1.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 5
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 22/02/2021 at 15:35, gwrrob said:

 

A further internet search finds this sheet already available from Fox, although you only get one pair.

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/power-classification-route-availability-codes-white

 

The small letters are meant for the LNER style class codes for the bufferbeams.

 

A1, B1, J52, etc.

 

You make them up with the other numbers on the sheet. So if you want one for a J94 you have to nick the 9 from the 9F.

 

I think I've got that sheet somewhere. 

 

 

Jason

  • Informative/Useful 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

<snip>

 There is no address for technical problems because the models are commissioned and progressed by the editorial team.

</snip>

Then the website should have said so.

 

Also, the booklet says "For any other queries about your 16XX, you can contact either Model Rail or Rapido trains Inc at" and gives the contact details.

 

From what you have said the booklet incorrect, and the error should have been picked up by the Editorial team when the booklet was proof read...

 

I was faced on a Friday afternoon with a "disfunctional" model. I looked for "technical support" on the Model Rail website there was none nor any indication that the Editorial team should be contacted for any technical issues. I then looked in the booklet and the Rapido UK website and followed the instructions from then on.

 

I am surprised that no-one had told Rapido UK that they shouldn't talk to customers and they they should redirect customer directly to you...

 

As you do Chris, I also model Canadian and have been in occasional contact with Rapido since 2014.

 

To ensure you are not left out of the ongoing conversations I have forward the e-mail chain to modelrail@bauermedia.co.uk.

 

As a modeller I would always rather resolve a problem rather than just "send something back". In these more environmentally friendly days it is a more responsible attitude.

 

Please don't get me wrong. The 16XX is a lovely model and I'm incredibly pleased that it has been made.

 

I would not say at this point that there is a "fault" but that there is an "issue when running on DCC. I have, through a burnt finger, a better idea of what the issue is. And because of following the instruction in the booklet we (consumer, commissioner and manufacturer) are closer to identifying a solution.

 

I will ask Andy to keep you in the loop during our on going investigations.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Premium
1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

If you buy a kettle and it doesn't work it goes back to Argos/Tesco/John Lewis/etc.

 

You don't send it back to Morphy Richards. You deal with the retailer who sold it to you.

 

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

I think more and more retailers just don't want to deal with problems with "disposable" items". They can send a returned item back to the manufacturer but that is paperwork and cost. Better to get the Manufacture to deal with the problem at source and take on the legal responsibility...

 

Luke

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

Then the website should have said so.

 

Also, the booklet says "For any other queries about your 16XX, you can contact either Model Rail or Rapido trains Inc at" and gives the contact details.

 

From what you have said the booklet incorrect, and the error should have been picked up by the Editorial team when the booklet was proof read...

 

I was faced on a Friday afternoon with a "disfunctional" model. I looked for "technical support" on the Model Rail website there was none nor any indication that the Editorial team should be contacted for any technical issues. I then looked in the booklet and the Rapido UK website and followed the instructions from then on.

 

I am surprised that no-one had told Rapido UK that they shouldn't talk to customers and they they should redirect customer directly to you...

 

As you do Chris, I also model Canadian and have been in occasional contact with Rapido since 2014.

 

To ensure you are not left out of the ongoing conversations I have forward the e-mail chain to modelrail@bauermedia.co.uk.

 

As a modeller I would always rather resolve a problem rather than just "send something back". In these more environmentally friendly days it is a more responsible attitude.

 

Please don't get me wrong. The 16XX is a lovely model and I'm incredibly pleased that it has been made.

 

I would not say at this point that there is a "fault" but that there is an "issue when running on DCC. I have, through a burnt finger, a better idea of what the issue is. And because of following the instruction in the booklet we (consumer, commissioner and manufacturer) are closer to identifying a solution.

 

I will ask Andy to keep you in the loop during our on going investigations.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

The booklet was not proof-read by anyone who is on the current editorial team. It was probably prepared and proof-read by Rapido and I have no doubt that they are happy to deal with customers direct, as most of their products are sold direct. However, you must - surely - appreciate that if there are faulty 16XXs, Model Rail needs to be aware of that. As I said before, there are financial implications in the replacement of faulty models and if an issue is to be resolved effectively it is better for Model Rail to deal directly with the designer rather than introduce a third party who has not been involved in the preparation of the model. Anyway, you clearly have chosen your course of action. I would simply ask anyone else who has a faulty model to contact Model Rail or Kernow MRC in the first instance. (CJL)

  • Agree 1
  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

 

Of course they do - they want the profit on your purchase, but not the hassle of your dissatisfaction.

 

Legally, it is THEIR responsibility to deal with the manufacturer, not YOURS - but that costs them time and money.

 

John Isherwood.

  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentlemen,

 

I feel this is getting a little heated. As Luke has pointed out, he contacted us to ask for some advice. Its not a case of a non-functional model that would fall under warranty and head back to Kernow, but an "issue" as Luke puts it that he wished to seek clarification on. We are acting in a support capacity (much like any of the white goods manufacturers referenced above would offer).

 

In this instance we are happy to work with Luke to understand his enquiry. I have been in touch with Model Rail recently to discuss the matter.

 

The UK team are involved, the spares and items for the warranty repairs will shortly be with me and will be my responsibility to deal with here in the UK - its much quicker than sending models to Canada for repair :-).

 

All we would like is for our (Rapido's, Model Rail and Kernow respectively as a team) customers to be happy and enjoy their 16xx models!

 

Keep calm and carry on modelling!

 

Andy 

  • Like 4
  • Agree 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

The booklet was not proof-read by anyone who is on the current editorial team. It was probably prepared and proof-read by Rapido and I have no doubt that they are happy to deal with customers direct, as most of their products are sold direct. However, you must - surely - appreciate that if there are faulty 16XXs, Model Rail needs to be aware of that. As I said before, there are financial implications in the replacement of faulty models and if an issue is to be resolved effectively it is better for Model Rail to deal directly with the designer rather than introduce a third party who has not been involved in the preparation of the model. Anyway, you clearly have chosen your course of action. I would simply ask anyone else who has a faulty model to contact Model Rail or Kernow MRC in the first instance. (CJL)

 

If Model Rail wishes to deal with customers' problems, the leaflet should give the appropriate detals. If it doesn't do so, it is Model Rail's fault - no good using the 'he's no longer with us' line.

 

It is for Model Rail to decide, with its supplier, the correct procedure in the event of problems; to make sure that this is conveyed to the customer; and then to ensure with its supplier that the procedure is adhered to.

 

The worst thing from Model Rail's perspective is for the customer to follow the published procedure, and then to imply that it is the customer who is at fault.

 

This issue has arisen because the leaflet is ambiguous - Model Rail's problem; period!

 

John Isherwood.

  • Like 2
  • Agree 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, dibber25 said:

The booklet was not proof-read by anyone who is on the current editorial team. It was probably prepared and proof-read by Rapido and I have no doubt that they are happy to deal with customers direct, as most of their products are sold direct. However, you must - surely - appreciate that if there are faulty 16XXs, Model Rail needs to be aware of that. As I said before, there are financial implications in the replacement of faulty models and if an issue is to be resolved effectively it is better for Model Rail to deal directly with the designer rather than introduce a third party who has not been involved in the preparation of the model. Anyway, you clearly have chosen your course of action. I would simply ask anyone else who has a faulty model to contact Model Rail or Kernow MRC in the first instance. (CJL)

 I suppose it has been driven into to me " Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions"! I can hear me first boss's word ringing in my ears!

 

Wearing my engineering hat, I would always prefer that the person who has got the problem reports it back to me directly. Otherwise we end up with a Chinese's Whispers situation.

 

When one evening Andy e-mails makes a suggestion I can try and report back in within a few hours. It cannot be more efficient for me to e-mail Bauer, who then tell you, who then passes it on to Bill when Andy is the UK rep.

 

I don't want to leave Model Rail out of the loop. But I want my 16XX and all the others running as well as they look (which is brilliant!!

 

Luke

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

If you buy a kettle and it doesn't work it goes back to Argos/Tesco/John Lewis/etc.

 

You don't send it back to Morphy Richards. You deal with the retailer who sold it to you.

 

Model Rail sold it, Model Rail has failed to provide any obvious way to contact them to deal with it.

 

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

That's the way UK consumer law works I'm afraid.

 

Not disputing that, just pointing out that a blanket "return to Kernow" isn't a very helpful response from Model Rail for many problems that could be solved without a return, particularly for those who will be out a significant amount of money (and time from hassle dealing with customs paperwork) to return the item from outside the UK.

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Mikkel said:

IMG_20210223_152110276_HDR.jpg.c68b063aa6dab614a5a5962402abb441.jpg

 

Hmmm. Is that front axle gearbox 'floating' in the chassis? If it is not, is the cardan/UJ connection just there for expediency?  (I'm not criticising btw; on the contrary, just very curious at the design strategy.)

 

Looks like Mikkel has got some serious hacking to do if that pannier weight block is integral with the chassis.

 

  • Agree 1
  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...