RMweb Gold Kaput Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2021 Technically it's not Rapido's place to offer exchanges or anything. You didn't buy it from them. If the model is a dud excerise your consumer rights and return it to the retailer for replacement or refund, its them you have a contract with. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 27, 2021 15 hours ago, mdvle said: In fairness to any of the manufacturers after leaving the factory models go through an awful lot of abuse - depending on the time of year they can either bake or freeze in the container (bot at sea and on land), get bounced around in the container, and then of course there is the handling by a local delivery service. But, as in my day job, you design the packaging to ensure the product reaches the end user without damage; not saying that's always easy mind you. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 I've probably lost the plot, but was the P4 conversion ever finished? Sorry if I've missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted August 27, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said: I've probably lost the plot, but was the P4 conversion ever finished? Sorry if I've missed it. Hi David, Yes, it was and it does run. I completed the work, once John F (Re6/6) had done the wheels and the difficult grinding away of bits of metal from the chassis block (to remove where the front tension lock coupling goes,for example). I had to fabricate a completely new set of brake gear, from spare brass etches that I had, as the original plastic brake gear for OO was not capable of being re-used (unlike on some Bachmann steam locos, for example), without major re-building and I personally found it easier to build new from brass. It was also very difficult to retain the original guard irons, so I made new ones up from brass scrap and glued them onto the chassis. 5 1 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 Oh my - I have missed out on a lot on my holiday. Firstly, let me start with a few apologies. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply - I’m currently on holiday in a remote-ish part of Scotland and have had to hike up a mountain to get some signal today to make today’s post. Like you, I’m not happy if a model is not right. This has been a complicated project as there are so many people involved, Model Rail, Kernow and us. Hellcat - I’m sorry you 2nd model is not right and I feel your pain. It always happens to models you want the most (I used to drove Stephensons Rocket at the NRM and am on my 4th model of it but that is another story) Lets see what we can do about it. By the sounds of it you have managed to sort most of the issues yourself (many of which I have reported back to factory to make sure we don’t see again on future models). Is there anything outstanding I can help with - feel free to drop me a message on here - when I’m back from my trip at the end of next week I will follow it up personally if we can help. Treggyman - I was sure I replied - my memory says the conversation was about suppression capacitors and hard wiring? If it didn’t get to you I apologise. I’m still working on a ‘perfect’ fix and hopefully the last version of the new circuit board should be with me when I return. Simply the capacitors do provide some protection to the motor and removing them completely may not be the best option long term. I’m still working on it. A few things are slower than I’d like at the moment. With the bus models arriving in September I have had to get our warehouse sorted and kitted out and the services etc installed whilst also trying to run the website, sort order issues, do the warranty stuff and other odds and ends. I don’t like unhappy customers and I will do my best to sort anything I can. Please do drop me a PM and I will do what I can. Thanks Andy 8 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said: Hi David, Yes, it was and it does run. I completed the work, once John F (Re6/6) had done the wheels and the difficult grinding away of bits of metal from the chassis block (to remove where the front tension lock coupling goes,for example). I had to fabricate a completely new set of brake gear, from spare brass etches that I had, as the original plastic brake gear for OO was not capable of being re-used (unlike on some Bachmann steam locos, for example), without major re-building and I personally found it easier to build new from brass. It was also very difficult to retain the original guard irons, so I made new ones up from brass scrap and glued them onto the chassis. Like that lots 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 5 hours ago, spamcan61 said: But, as in my day job, you design the packaging to ensure the product reaches the end user without damage; not saying that's always easy mind you. They do try - though I'm not sure other than providing built in climate control how the packaging is supposed to protect the model from temperature extremes that cause problems with different materials behaving differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topfeed Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Kaput said: Technically it's not Rapido's place to offer exchanges or anything. You didn't buy it from them. If the model is a dud excerise your consumer rights and return it to the retailer for replacement or refund, its them you have a contract with. Thanks, I am aware of the contractual relationship and to whom I should return the model (as I did, when it wouldn't run) but I wanted Rapido to be aware of my experience and to have some (hopefully) helpful feedback for the factory, something the retailer may not necessarily pass on. Having returned it once, I preferred to sort the cosmetic problems myself. Edited August 27, 2021 by Hellcat 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted August 27, 2021 Share Posted August 27, 2021 6 hours ago, rapidoandy said: Oh my - I have missed out on a lot on my holiday. Firstly, let me start with a few apologies. Sorry it has taken me a while to reply - I’m currently on holiday in a remote-ish part of Scotland and have had to hike up a mountain to get some signal today to make today’s post. Like you, I’m not happy if a model is not right. This has been a complicated project as there are so many people involved, Model Rail, Kernow and us. Hellcat - I’m sorry you 2nd model is not right and I feel your pain. It always happens to models you want the most (I used to drove Stephensons Rocket at the NRM and am on my 4th model of it but that is another story) Lets see what we can do about it. By the sounds of it you have managed to sort most of the issues yourself (many of which I have reported back to factory to make sure we don’t see again on future models). Is there anything outstanding I can help with - feel free to drop me a message on here - when I’m back from my trip at the end of next week I will follow it up personally if we can help. Treggyman - I was sure I replied - my memory says the conversation was about suppression capacitors and hard wiring? If it didn’t get to you I apologise. I’m still working on a ‘perfect’ fix and hopefully the last version of the new circuit board should be with me when I return. Simply the capacitors do provide some protection to the motor and removing them completely may not be the best option long term. I’m still working on it. A few things are slower than I’d like at the moment. With the bus models arriving in September I have had to get our warehouse sorted and kitted out and the services etc installed whilst also trying to run the website, sort order issues, do the warranty stuff and other odds and ends. I don’t like unhappy customers and I will do my best to sort anything I can. Please do drop me a PM and I will do what I can. Thanks Andy Hi Andy Just looked & there is no reply in my 'inbox' for PM'S...... Although I have removed /isolated the circuit board I have wired in a ceramic capacitor to try to 'iron out 'any spikes......No difference..... My query/problem is though that the motor works really poorly with a feedback controller whether hardwired or with the board in place..... Other motors I've had similar problems with hardwiring sorts it out..... There is no difference in performance either way with this motor...... Anyway...Enjoy your holiday..... I've sort of accepted that there's no solution..... Cheers Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 23 hours ago, Hellcat said: Thanks, I am aware of the contractual relationship and to whom I should return the model (as I did, when it wouldn't run) but I wanted Rapido to be aware of my experience and to have some (hopefully) helpful feedback for the factory, something the retailer may not necessarily pass on. Having returned it once, I preferred to sort the cosmetic problems myself. I honestly mean it when I say thank you for the feedback - as it’s me that deals with ‘issues’ after a model is released I’m keen learn lessons from each and every model! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 20 hours ago, treggyman said: Hi Andy Just looked & there is no reply in my 'inbox' for PM'S...... Although I have removed /isolated the circuit board I have wired in a ceramic capacitor to try to 'iron out 'any spikes......No difference..... My query/problem is though that the motor works really poorly with a feedback controller whether hardwired or with the board in place..... Other motors I've had similar problems with hardwiring sorts it out..... There is no difference in performance either way with this motor...... Anyway...Enjoy your holiday..... I've sort of accepted that there's no solution..... Cheers Bill Hi Bill, I am a little surprised it is so poor. I am not an electronics person but let me talk to the person who is when I’m back in the office and see if it’s anything we can sort. It could be a poorly motor. Have you been able to make a comparison with the same models running on a non feedback controller? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 4 hours ago, rapidoandy said: Hi Bill, I am a little surprised it is so poor. I am not an electronics person but let me talk to the person who is when I’m back in the office and see if it’s anything we can sort. It could be a poorly motor. Have you been able to make a comparison with the same models running on a non feedback controller? Andy Hi Andy Thanks for the response. This is the second loco...... The first was replaced when I contacted Model Rail (Kernow Model Rail) & explained my problem......ie that it ran OK on straight DC but was rubbish on feedback...... They tested both the original & replacement but only on DC as they didn't have a feedback controller & both ran OK on straight DC...... This loco performs in exactly the same way as the first & the conclusion from the supplier was that if the second was the same as the first there wasn't any thing that could be done..... Hence hardwireing & fiddling with the motor as If a third loco would be the same there was no point changing it again & i have had success previously with other DCC ready locos by bypassing the circuit board........ I await with interest the response from your electronics guy but as it runs poorly on feedback control having bypassed the circuit board I would be more inclined to suggest it's the motor that is the problem...... Thanks again for your response.... Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Hi Bill, With that information I would tend to agree with you. I will speak to our man once I’m back from holiday - do feel free to nudge/kick/pole as required. I suspect there will be a lot of emails to delete (sorry reply) too. Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 1 minute ago, rapidoandy said: Hi Bill, With that information I would tend to agree with you. I will speak to our man once I’m back from holiday - do feel free to nudge/kick/pole as required. I suspect there will be a lot of emails to delete (sorry reply) too. Andy Hi Andy Thanks for the quick response.... There's no rush.....Enjoy the rest of your holiday....That's far more important...... I've plenty of other loco's & things to do to keep me entertained.... Hear from you when you can reply.... Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 On 01/04/2021 at 12:20, rapidoandy said: Otherwise, you'll just have to hold tight for the replacement circuit boards that we're having made to arrive. You can order one by clicking here: 16xx DCC Fix – Rapido Trains UK I note that is a dead link now - does that mean all which are still for sale have been corrected? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRIAN T Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 I very much doubt it,just like the first Heljan Clayton motor replacement that didn’t happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outatime Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Just a while ago, the now dead link looked like the attached file. Should be an easy fix, although i haven't done it yet to my 16xx. 1852815000_16XXDCCFixRapidoTrainsUK.pdf 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2021 10 hours ago, BRIAN T said: I very much doubt it,just like the first Heljan Clayton motor replacement that didn’t happen. I filled in the online form and emailed once after a few months……heard nothing at all. There is a good “fix” explained on the youchoos website which involves removing the original board completely, not such a chore actually, and gives a bit more room for stay alive etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamDaniel Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Have a few quick questions about the 16xx, after reading the Bargain Hunters thread. I understand the 16xxs were prone to a circuit board problem. (a) are discounted models - for want of a better word - fixed? (b) are the circuit board problems only relevant for DCC modellers? (I have a DC layout) And if the bargain 16xxs aren't fixed, are they still in warranty so will Rapido be able to fix it if I return it? Any help would be appreciated @rapidoandy. Am very tempted by 1638 but I don't want to buy a duff model! Ta. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, IamDaniel said: Have a few quick questions about the 16xx, after reading the Bargain Hunters thread. I understand the 16xxs were prone to a circuit board problem. (a) are discounted models - for want of a better word - fixed? (b) are the circuit board problems only relevant for DCC modellers? (I have a DC layout) And if the bargain 16xxs aren't fixed, are they still in warranty so will Rapido be able to fix it if I return it? Any help would be appreciated @rapidoandy. Am very tempted by 1638 but I don't want to buy a duff model! Ta. All 16XXs bought new are covered by warranty. Edited November 24, 2021 by dibber25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2021 46 minutes ago, dibber25 said: All 16XXs bought new are covered by warranty. I think the main question was are the Locos on sale now fitted with the upgraded motherboard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IamDaniel Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, boxbrownie said: I think the main question was are the Locos on sale now fitted with the upgraded motherboard? Correct. And if they're not fitted with the upgraded motherboard, will that affect the running on a DC layout? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 Evening all, To address concerns about the performance of the ‘OO’ gauge ‘16XX’, this is an intermittent fault that is affecting a small percentage of models. We have been trying to find the root cause of the problem and the three models that we’ve had on test in recent weeks have performed faultlessly on DCC with a combination of Dapol, DCC concepts, Gaugemaster and Lenz decoders on a number of different controllers. We have struggled to replicate the faults. Based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s fairly safe to assume that your ‘16XX’ will work straight from the box. If you are unlucky and receive with this fault, then please contact either Model Rail Offers or fill in the form on our website (https://rapidotrains.co.uk/warranty-form/). Our recent testing has thrown up a couple of other areas to concentrate on and the factory has posted some new parts to the UK for us to test. We’re keeping everything crossed that these parts solve the problem. As has been well publicised there has been a slow down in output from vendors in China etc which has resulted in things taking longer than we hoped it would. We’re doing everything we can to fix this fault, which, we’ll admit, has left us and the team in Canada baffled. We thank you for your continued patience while we try to solve it once and for all. Andy 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted November 24, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2021 50 minutes ago, rapidoandy said: Evening all, To address concerns about the performance of the ‘OO’ gauge ‘16XX’, this is an intermittent fault that is affecting a small percentage of models. We have been trying to find the root cause of the problem and the three models that we’ve had on test in recent weeks have performed faultlessly on DCC with a combination of Dapol, DCC concepts, Gaugemaster and Lenz decoders on a number of different controllers. We have struggled to replicate the faults. Based on what we’ve seen so far, it’s fairly safe to assume that your ‘16XX’ will work straight from the box. If you are unlucky and receive with this fault, then please contact either Model Rail Offers or fill in the form on our website (https://rapidotrains.co.uk/warranty-form/). Our recent testing has thrown up a couple of other areas to concentrate on and the factory has posted some new parts to the UK for us to test. We’re keeping everything crossed that these parts solve the problem. As has been well publicised there has been a slow down in output from vendors in China etc which has resulted in things taking longer than we hoped it would. We’re doing everything we can to fix this fault, which, we’ll admit, has left us and the team in Canada baffled. We thank you for your continued patience while we try to solve it once and for all. Andy Thanks for the update Andy, it explains why my “form filling” has gone unanswered for so long……look forward to the update, BTW mine plays up using an ECoS controller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapidoandy Posted November 24, 2021 Share Posted November 24, 2021 I apologise. I did try to send everyone on the form an email but it seems some have not sent. The latest parts are apparently on the way. I’m very aware that Christmas is just around the corner and that will no doubt complicate things but we are moving in the right direction. Andy 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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