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Model Rail announce GWR Class 1600 0-6-0PT via Rapido


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54 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

I've just noticed that my chosen renumber 1608 has a white A power class displayed. Further info is given here

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html . Just wondering if there's a source for these as a transfer, I've never seen the A in white , just black on the HMRS sheet.

 

I thought Fox did them. But it's little white Xs.

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/transfers/gwr-route-availability-power-classification-symbols

 

 

Jason

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40 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

I'm hanging back on buying one of these as I too would like to convert it to P4. Be grateful for a report on your experience. 

It might be a while David. I'm ordering an Ultrascale LNER 12 spoke set for which the waiting time is around five months. As mentioned these will be a slight compromise but I can live with that!

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AGW wheels are 48S49B for P4 (1/8" axles) and AGW also do side frames for the Class 2021 LM1-187 which (as I haven't done the research) I'm assuming would do the trick if it isn't possible to do a conversion using the Rapido chassis.

Look forward to seeing the outcome!

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37 minutes ago, PenrithBeacon said:

AGW wheels are 48S49B for P4 (1/8" axles) and AGW also do side frames for the Class 2021 LM1-187 which (as I haven't done the research) I'm assuming would do the trick if it isn't possible to do a conversion using the Rapido chassis.

Look forward to seeing the outcome!

Hi David,

 

I'll no doubt be discussing the conversion with John in due course. I'm also considering getting a second one for conversion to P4.

 

One thing to consider with the model 'as is', is that the way to get to the motor (eg. to install a DCC chip), is to unscrew the tank assembly, so in other words, the footplate (which is plastic) remains attached to the chassis.

 

No doubt the whole thing can be completely dismantled, but this seems (at first sight) to be different from the Bachmann approach, where a couple of screws allow you to remove the complete body, leaving the complete chassis and motor as a separate item.

 

So getting to the situation where you have a complete body, ready to accept a replacement chassis, might involve a bit more work that (say) a Bachmann 57XX, 64XX or 94XX.

 

That said, the body is really rather good and certainly worthy of conversion.

 

I'd have thought that the ideal chassis option would be to go for the NuCast Partners 16XX etched N/S chassis kit (designed by Justin Newitt). This is very good indeed and is the one now supplied with the old Cotswold (later NuCast) whitemetal body kit and is available as a separate item from NuCast Partners or Branchlines. This is how I would convert one of these locos to P4, resulting in the RTR chassis being sold on.

 

John's method has merit, however, and using 2mm axles and the existing final drive gear wheel, bushed up to 1/8" for the AG or Ultrascale driving wheels, should be feasible.

 

I suspect that some material may need to be removed from the inside of the splashers (plastic), in order to give a little bit more sideplay, depending on the kind of curves you are expecting to run the loco over. At least there seems to be a little more room in the 16XX splashers as compared with the new Bachmann 94XX, which will require metal being machined away, in order to fit EM or P4 wheels.

 

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So got a sound file loaded but output is not brilliant. Has anyone looked at alternative speaker arrangements yet please?

Edited by Phil Bullock
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1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi David,

 

I'll no doubt be discussing the conversion with John in due course. I'm also considering getting a second one for conversion to P4.

 

One thing to consider with the model 'as is', is that the way to get to the motor (eg. to install a DCC chip), is to unscrew the tank assembly, so in other words, the footplate (which is plastic) remains attached to the chassis.

 

No doubt the whole thing can be completely dismantled, but this seems (at first sight) to be different from the Bachmann approach, where a couple of screws allow you to remove the complete body, leaving the complete chassis and motor as a separate item.

 

So getting to the situation where you have a complete body, ready to accept a replacement chassis, might involve a bit more work that (say) a Bachmann 57XX, 64XX or 94XX.

 

That said, the body is really rather good and certainly worthy of conversion.

 

I'd have thought that the ideal chassis option would be to go for the NuCast Partners 16XX etched N/S chassis kit (designed by Justin Newitt). This is very good indeed and is the one now supplied with the old Cotswold (later NuCast) whitemetal body kit and is available as a separate item from NuCast Partners or Branchlines. This is how I would convert one of these locos to P4, resulting in the RTR chassis being sold on.

 

John's method has merit, however, and using 2mm axles and the existing final drive gear wheel, bushed up to 1/8" for the AG or Ultrascale driving wheels, should be feasible.

 

I suspect that some material may need to be removed from the inside of the splashers (plastic), in order to give a little bit more sideplay, depending on the kind of curves you are expecting to run the loco over. At least there seems to be a little more room in the 16XX splashers as compared with the new Bachmann 94XX, which will require metal being machined away, in order to fit EM or P4 wheels.

 

Thanks for that. I would be doing it for RC so I  wouldn't need the DCC gubbins. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

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9 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I've just noticed that my chosen renumber 1608 has a white A power class displayed. Further info is given here

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html . Just wondering if there's a source for these as a transfer, I've never seen the A in white , just black on the HMRS sheet.

It seems that not all the '16XXs' carried the 'A' power class and the model is generally decorated according to photos. I have a random half dozen here - Nos. 1646/1655/1664 have the A. Nos. 1609/1661 don't have it. The power class was usually black on a coloured route availability circle. The 16XX was uncoloured (so unrestricted weight-wise) and consequently does not have a coloured circle, just the weight code. I have not been able to find a white transfer as such, but if you have a collection of part-used decal sheets you may find something that will do the job. I looked through my drawer of left-over decals and - For instance, Cambridge Custom Transfers sheet BL166C - Toad brake van markings - has lots of place names with the letter A in them that looks about the right size. (CJL)

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10 hours ago, gwrrob said:

I've just noticed that my chosen renumber 1608 has a white A power class displayed. Further info is given here

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1948.html . Just wondering if there's a source for these as a transfer, I've never seen the A in white , just black on the HMRS sheet.

Railtec do a complete ex-GWR loco transfer pack which includes the power classification circle. I'd message them first to be sure, and I've never bought anything from them, but given some of what they've written on this fourm they seem to do their research so would probably make sure the white A was provided. Might have to wait a while for a response though, as they seem to be really busy.

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23 hours ago, Phil Bullock said:

So got a sound file loaded but output is not brilliant. Has anyone looked at alternative speaker arrangements yet please?

Which sound did you use? I thought the speaker was pretty good, I’ve got SWD and I’ve increased the volume of a few sound slots like the safety valve and drain cocks and it’s nice and loud without any distortion 

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17 hours ago, Rhydgaled said:

Railtec do a complete ex-GWR loco transfer pack which includes the power classification circle. I'd message them first to be sure, and I've never bought anything from them, but given some of what they've written on this fourm they seem to do their research so would probably make sure the white A was provided. Might have to wait a while for a response though, as they seem to be really busy.

 

A further internet search finds this sheet already available from Fox, although you only get one pair.

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/power-classification-route-availability-codes-white

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Hi Guys,

 

If anyone is still / now having problems with the performance of their 16XX can you drop me a note letting me know what DCC system you're using?

 

I'm still in communication with Rapido and I want to check something.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke 

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12 hours ago, luke_stevens said:

Hi Guys,

 

If anyone is still / now having problems with the performance of their 16XX can you drop me a note letting me know what DCC system you're using?

 

I'm still in communication with Rapido and I want to check something.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke 

If there is a problem with the model, you should really notify Model Rail initially, rather than dealing direct with the manufacturer. (CJL)

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4 hours ago, dibber25 said:

If there is a problem with the model, you should really notify Model Rail initially, rather than dealing direct with the manufacturer. (CJL)

Hi Chris,

 

That was my first thought but the Contact page give e-mails for Subscriptions, Advertising and Editorial, and a Contact  Form for questions about orders.

 

There wasn't a option for technical problems / trouble shooting.

 

So far there have been 13 e-mail where I have been involved and at least 4 more that I know of including a couple to the factory in China.

 

Something is clearly up in at least a few cases and Andy and I are trying to work out what, why and how often.

 

I was just trying to see what the pattern is.

 

I'm going to get back to Andy this evening with an up-date to the questions he asked me.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

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1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

Hi Chris,

 

That was my first thought but the Contact page give e-mails for Subscriptions, Advertising and Editorial, and a Contact  Form for questions about orders.

 

There wasn't a option for technical problems / trouble shooting.

 

So far there have been 13 e-mail where I have been involved and at least 4 more that I know of including a couple to the factory in China.

 

Something is clearly up in at least a few cases and Andy and I are trying to work out what, why and how often.

 

I was just trying to see what the pattern is.

 

I'm going to get back to Andy this evening with an up-date to the questions he asked me.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

The problem with going direct to Rapido is that Model Rail is the commissioner of this product. Rapido UK was not involved at all. We at Model Rail need to know if there are faulty models, and to keep track of how many, and what the faults are. There may be significant cost implications for Model Rail and we also need to be able to assess the extent of the problem. There is no address for technical problems because the models are commissioned and progressed by the editorial team. At the present time, we are 'out of the loop' with regard to the particular problem with your model and when we are discussing future products that's not a good position to be in. I appreciate that Rapido staff are very approachable but this is a Model Rail product, made for us by Rapido, and it was bought from Model Rail. We may well need to seek technical advice from Rapido but we have channels for doing that. If a model is defective, it should be returned to Kernow MRC for replacement. (CJL)

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While I understand/agree that Model Rail should be the first point of contact for problems, a blanket "return to Kernow" isn't very friendly/convenient - particularly for anyone who has had it shipped outside of the UK, or even for those inside the UK who don't want to / can't risk a trip to a post office to ship it under current conditions.

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7 minutes ago, mdvle said:

While I understand/agree that Model Rail should be the first point of contact for problems, a blanket "return to Kernow" isn't very friendly/convenient - particularly for anyone who has had it shipped outside of the UK, or even for those inside the UK who don't want to / can't risk a trip to a post office to ship it under current conditions.

 

If you buy a kettle and it doesn't work it goes back to Argos/Tesco/John Lewis/etc.

 

You don't send it back to Morphy Richards. You deal with the retailer who sold it to you.

 

That's the way UK consumer law works I'm afraid.

 

 

Jason

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Today I started dis-assembling the loco to see if I can use the chassis for something else. Perhaps these photos are of use to someone.

 

As mentioned by CK above, the upper part comes off without the footplate:

 

IMG_20210223_150658297_HDR.jpg.d856369a8c637b718913788f2341edd6.jpg

 

 

IMG_20210223_150743355_HDR.jpg.fa402307afbd50302670917589de78c4.jpg

 

 

Top weight removed and hair flowing loose:

 

IMG_20210223_151503260_HDR.jpg.30e68c2bf979a58dc852e33265033103.jpg

 

 

The drive is embedded in a big chunky weight which fills out the panniers. According to the exploded diagram the weight is one single block, but it is not clear how it might be removed. It's quite integrated with the rest of the structure.

 

IMG_20210223_152110276_HDR.jpg.c68b063aa6dab614a5a5962402abb441.jpg

 

 

The weight block is a challenge for my hopes to use the chassis for a 2021 ST conversion. The 16xx tanks were positioned lower than the 2021s, and so there is weight block where there should be air. I haven't given up yet though!

 

IMG_20210223_195611784_HDR.jpg.2cd4de4d52f44b43470d2d397ee9b941.jpg

 

 

 A few shots from below.

 

IMG_20210223_151817754_HDR.jpg.36a342445f7c27337b37f98e2327423e.jpg

 

 

IMG_20210223_200256341_HDR.jpg.0d0624e313303e170d840b98874209d1.jpg

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On 22/02/2021 at 15:35, gwrrob said:

 

A further internet search finds this sheet already available from Fox, although you only get one pair.

 

https://www.fox-transfers.co.uk/power-classification-route-availability-codes-white

 

The small letters are meant for the LNER style class codes for the bufferbeams.

 

A1, B1, J52, etc.

 

You make them up with the other numbers on the sheet. So if you want one for a J94 you have to nick the 9 from the 9F.

 

I think I've got that sheet somewhere. 

 

 

Jason

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1 hour ago, dibber25 said:

<snip>

 There is no address for technical problems because the models are commissioned and progressed by the editorial team.

</snip>

Then the website should have said so.

 

Also, the booklet says "For any other queries about your 16XX, you can contact either Model Rail or Rapido trains Inc at" and gives the contact details.

 

From what you have said the booklet incorrect, and the error should have been picked up by the Editorial team when the booklet was proof read...

 

I was faced on a Friday afternoon with a "disfunctional" model. I looked for "technical support" on the Model Rail website there was none nor any indication that the Editorial team should be contacted for any technical issues. I then looked in the booklet and the Rapido UK website and followed the instructions from then on.

 

I am surprised that no-one had told Rapido UK that they shouldn't talk to customers and they they should redirect customer directly to you...

 

As you do Chris, I also model Canadian and have been in occasional contact with Rapido since 2014.

 

To ensure you are not left out of the ongoing conversations I have forward the e-mail chain to [email protected]

 

As a modeller I would always rather resolve a problem rather than just "send something back". In these more environmentally friendly days it is a more responsible attitude.

 

Please don't get me wrong. The 16XX is a lovely model and I'm incredibly pleased that it has been made.

 

I would not say at this point that there is a "fault" but that there is an "issue when running on DCC. I have, through a burnt finger, a better idea of what the issue is. And because of following the instruction in the booklet we (consumer, commissioner and manufacturer) are closer to identifying a solution.

 

I will ask Andy to keep you in the loop during our on going investigations.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

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1 hour ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

If you buy a kettle and it doesn't work it goes back to Argos/Tesco/John Lewis/etc.

 

You don't send it back to Morphy Richards. You deal with the retailer who sold it to you.

 

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

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13 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

I think more and more retailers just don't want to deal with problems with "disposable" items". They can send a returned item back to the manufacturer but that is paperwork and cost. Better to get the Manufacture to deal with the problem at source and take on the legal responsibility...

 

Luke

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3 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

Then the website should have said so.

 

Also, the booklet says "For any other queries about your 16XX, you can contact either Model Rail or Rapido trains Inc at" and gives the contact details.

 

From what you have said the booklet incorrect, and the error should have been picked up by the Editorial team when the booklet was proof read...

 

I was faced on a Friday afternoon with a "disfunctional" model. I looked for "technical support" on the Model Rail website there was none nor any indication that the Editorial team should be contacted for any technical issues. I then looked in the booklet and the Rapido UK website and followed the instructions from then on.

 

I am surprised that no-one had told Rapido UK that they shouldn't talk to customers and they they should redirect customer directly to you...

 

As you do Chris, I also model Canadian and have been in occasional contact with Rapido since 2014.

 

To ensure you are not left out of the ongoing conversations I have forward the e-mail chain to [email protected]

 

As a modeller I would always rather resolve a problem rather than just "send something back". In these more environmentally friendly days it is a more responsible attitude.

 

Please don't get me wrong. The 16XX is a lovely model and I'm incredibly pleased that it has been made.

 

I would not say at this point that there is a "fault" but that there is an "issue when running on DCC. I have, through a burnt finger, a better idea of what the issue is. And because of following the instruction in the booklet we (consumer, commissioner and manufacturer) are closer to identifying a solution.

 

I will ask Andy to keep you in the loop during our on going investigations.

 

Yours,

 

Luke

 

 

The booklet was not proof-read by anyone who is on the current editorial team. It was probably prepared and proof-read by Rapido and I have no doubt that they are happy to deal with customers direct, as most of their products are sold direct. However, you must - surely - appreciate that if there are faulty 16XXs, Model Rail needs to be aware of that. As I said before, there are financial implications in the replacement of faulty models and if an issue is to be resolved effectively it is better for Model Rail to deal directly with the designer rather than introduce a third party who has not been involved in the preparation of the model. Anyway, you clearly have chosen your course of action. I would simply ask anyone else who has a faulty model to contact Model Rail or Kernow MRC in the first instance. (CJL)

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15 minutes ago, spamcan61 said:

Not disputing the letter of the law,  but the last few consumer white goods I've bought from Argos or online have had stickers on them urging the buyer to contact the manufacturer not the retailer in case of problems, along with the relevant phone number.

 

Of course they do - they want the profit on your purchase, but not the hassle of your dissatisfaction.

 

Legally, it is THEIR responsibility to deal with the manufacturer, not YOURS - but that costs them time and money.

 

John Isherwood.

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