Jump to content

SR NIGHT FERRY SLEEPING CARS


Recommended Posts

If you can find it, there are drawings in "Night Ferry" by George Behrend and Gary Buchanan. This also contains information on the SNCF and SR baggage vans, lots of photos etc. Over time modifications were made to the coaches - particularly the underframe and windows so any drawings need to be supplemented with photos from your chosen period. The Sleeper at the MRN is hybrid of different periods so be careful about using it as a reference.

 

MARC Models may also be able to help. They produce 4mm kits - see:-

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110266-marc-models-sr-ferry-brake-van/page-1

 

Roy

Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a series of articles on building the train in Model Rail about ten years ago.

 

I also think there was some articles in Railway Modeller or Model Railway Constructor in the late 1960s or early 1970s. There were definitely plans and photographs of the baggage cars as I tried to build one out of plastikard.

 

I'll try and find what issues they were.

 

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

Roy,Jason, Thank you for the replies.

I have a copy of the Night Ferry but some of the dimensions are indistinct hence the query. Being recently semi-retired, I have had the idea that I want to scratch build a rake of these sleepers and could do with some better drawings. I'm still pinning my hopes on Hornby providing the sleepers next year !

 

Ivor

Link to post
Share on other sites

Roy,Jason, Thank you for the replies.

I have a copy of the Night Ferry but some of the dimensions are indistinct hence the query. Being recently semi-retired, I have had the idea that I want to scratch build a rake of these sleepers and could do with some better drawings. I'm still pinning my hopes on Hornby providing the sleepers next year !

 

Ivor

Unfortunately, MARC models didn't have their best specs on when they drew up their etchings and obviously found some of the dimensions indistinct too ! : their sleepers are totally flat sided but should have a slight taper to them and the fourgons have been made far too narrow ............ nothing that can't be rectified - but ...... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found the details of the Model Rail articles.

 

72 October 2004     - Night Train to Paris, Ferry Trains -  Prototype info on the 'Night Ferry' sleeping car express to Paris

73 November 2004 - CIWL Class F sleeping car           -  Modelling train ferry traffic with the Model Rail 'Night Ferry' kit

74 December 2004 - Building the Night Ferry Kit - 2      -  Completion of the Class F sleeping car Model Rail 'Night Ferry' kit

 

97 November 2006 - Fourgon Conclusion                      - Complete your 'Night Ferry' set with these new SNCF luggage vans

107 August 2007    - Continental Baggage                     - Building the latest 4mm scale brass kit in the Southern Railway 'Night Ferry' range from MARC Models.

 

 

 

Jason

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately, MARC models didn't have their best specs on when they drew up their etchings and obviously found some of the dimensions indistinct too ! : their sleepers are totally flat sided but should have a slight taper to them and the fourgons have been made far too narrow ............ nothing that can't be rectified - but ......

 

I think that there are drawings in the Loco-Revue collection. If I can find mine, I will take a look.

 

Surprised at there being a taper (tumblehome) to the body.

The tumblehome must be very slight - I can't detect it in these photos. http://forum.e-train.fr/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=28566&start=660

 

Roy

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that there are drawings in the Loco-Revue collection. If I can find mine, I will take a look.

 

Surprised at there being a taper (tumblehome) to the body.

I try to avoid using the word 'tumblehome' though in this case it would have been correct-ish ........ I also try to avoid quoting from Wikipedia though in this case it is correct saying "In naval architecture, the tumblehome is the narrowing of a ship's hull with greater distance above the water-line. Expressed more technically, it is present when the beam at the uppermost deck is less than the maximum beam of the vessel.

 

Unfortunately most toy train people seem to be under the impression that 'tumblehome' refers to the turn under BELOW the waist of a railway carriage* whereas that's called the turn under ( oddly ! ) . The 'tumblehome' - where present - is actually the slight inward angle ABOVE the waist - or 'batter' in architectural terminology. 

 

* or, before that, a road carriage

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having convinced myself that Hornby were going to announce the introduction of the above vehicles in their recent newsletter, can anybody advise if and where drawings are available for the sleeping cars ?

 

 There is a French (small) book in  a series by Jean-Paul Lepage about the Type F CIWL sleepers (Les Voitures Lits Type F de la CIWL). I do not have this booklet, but a couple of the others in these series and they have drawing and lots of information. Further you might take a look at the LS Models models of these cars. They are, like all LS Models products, very good representations (but of course to a scale of 1:87):

32923094ym.jpg

Regards

Fred

Link to post
Share on other sites

 There is a French (small) book in  a series by Jean-Paul Lepage about the Type F CIWL sleepers (Les Voitures Lits Type F de la CIWL). I do not have this booklet, but a couple of the others in these series and they have drawing and lots of information. Further you might take a look at the LS Models models of these cars. They are, like all LS Models products, very good representations (but of course to a scale of 1:87):

32923094ym.jpg

Regards

Fred

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 There is a French (small) book in  a series by Jean-Paul Lepage about the Type F CIWL sleepers (Les Voitures Lits Type F de la CIWL). I do not have this booklet, but a couple of the others in these series and they have drawing and lots of information. Further you might take a look at the LS Models models of these cars. They are, like all LS Models products, very good representations (but of course to a scale of 1:87):

32923094ym.jpg

Regards

Fred

 

Gentlemen, Thank you for the responses. I had missed the fact regarding the taper to the bodysides but it becomes apparent upon closer examination.

Fred, thanks for the tip on the French publications, I'll endeavour to track one down.

 

Regards,

 

Ivor

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

I have found (and bought) a copy of the small booklet by Lepage on the Type F and here are the measurements mentioned in the book:

33612804cd.jpg
As can be seen the width ( French: gabarit) of the coach is largest as the bottom and smallest at the roof.
Regards
Fred
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that there are drawings in the Loco-Revue collection. If I can find mine, I will take a look.

 

Surprised at there being a taper (tumblehome) to the body.

There was a "Dossier" in the September 1992 (#551)Loco-Revue on the Night Ferry sleepers which had some brief notes (a paragraph) on converting the old Jouef/Playcraft model of them into a reasonable representation though possibly not reasonable by modern standards. Those early Jouef "models" were underscale and because that of the "F" was simply based on the others that allegedly made it close to scale for  H0 as these coaches were smaller to fit the British loading gauge. I had (may still have somewhere) a couple of the early Jouef VLs and they are pretty crude. The only other references to F sleepers I could find in Loco Revue were a review (Test H0) of the LS Models model of them in October 1999 (#747) and an article on interor lighhting for the LS model in March 2011 (#764) 

 

There was a more detailed article on producing a model of this classic train by Victor Roseman in the February 2006 Continental Modeller. That includes a simple but well dimensioned diagram including the message "Note the taper of the body on the end diagram. This is not usually noticeable in photos of the cars". He used the far more authentic Jouef type Y sleeper from the 1980s as the donor model for some pretty extensive model bashing described in great detail in this eight page article. The resulting model was though in H0 and I think that for OO people are going to have to wait for Hornby.

 

Ivor, I've PMd you a scan of the drawing from  Victor Roseman's article in the Feb 2006 Continental Modeller and a more detailed diagram of these coaches in CIWL livery from the French independent modellers' group AMFI.

Edited by Pacific231G
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

There was a "Dossier" in the September 1992 (#551)Loco-Revue on the Night Ferry sleepers which had some brief notes (a paragraph) on converting the old Jouef/Playcraft model of them into a reasonable representation though possibly not reasonable by modern standards. Those early Jouef "models" were underscale and because that of the "F" was simply based on the others that allegedly made it close to scale for  H0 as these coaches were smaller to fit the British loading gauge. I had (may still have somewhere) a couple of the early Jouef VLs and they are pretty crude. The only other references to F sleepers I could find in Loco Revue were a review (Test H0) of the LS Models model of them in October 1999 (#747) and an article on interor lighhting for the LS model in March 2011 (#764) 

 

There was a more detailed article on producing a model of this classic train by Victor Roseman in the February 2006 Continental Modeller. That includes a simple but well dimensioned diagram including the message "Note the taper of the body on the end diagram. This is not usually noticeable in photos of the cars". He used the far more authentic Jouef type Y sleeper from the 1980s as the donor model for some pretty extensive model bashing described in great detail in this eight page article. The resulting model was though in H0 and I think that for OO people are going to have to wait for Hornby.

 

Ivor, I've PMd you a scan of the drawing from  Victor Roseman's article in the Feb 2006 Continental Modeller and a more detailed diagram of these coaches in CIWL livery from the French independent modellers' group AMFI.

Good Evening David,

 

Please excuse my apparent bad manners in not responding sooner but I have been distracted somewhat over recent times because of family related issues and modelling projects have had to be shelved.

I have just downloaded the two drawings for the Night Ferry sleepers and they look to be of great assistance for which I offer my belated thanks.

I am still pinning my hopes on Hornby announcing these vehicles in their 2019 range on the 7th January. If not, then I shall get cracking. 

Once again, Thank you.

 

Ivor

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 05/06/2018 at 21:19, Lord Nelson said:

If you can find it, there are drawings in "Night Ferry" by George Behrend and Gary Buchanan. This also contains information on the SNCF and SR baggage vans, lots of photos etc.

Roy

 

Have just purchased this book secondhand off Amazon for £35 - there are still a few secondhand copies around after all, including one signed by the author!

 

However, Serendipity Books Ltd (based in the UK) have a brand new copy for a bargain price of £990.14 (with free postage) for anyone with more money than sense:O 

 

Steve S

Edited by SteveyDee68
Corrected with thanks to dasatcopthorne
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 08/07/2020 at 22:28, SteveyDee68 said:

 

Have just purchased this book secondhand off Amazon for £35 - there are still a few secondhand copies around after all, including one signed by the author!

 

However, Serendipity Books Ltd (based in the UK) have a brand new copy for a bargain price of £990.14 (with free postage) for anyone with more sense than money! :O 

 

Steve S

 

More sense than money??

 

 

  • Funny 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, dasatcopthorne said:

 

More sense than money??

 

 

 

Quite right! Have edited appropriately!! 

 

In other news:

 

Have just won four Hornby Pullman coaches off eBay which I bid on when the thoughts of modifying them to Night Ferry sleepers was rattling around my head, before I got the drawings and started planning more accurate models!  Thing is, I forgot I had bid on them! :rolleyes:

 

Tends to be how I bid - put a bid in I am happy to pay up to, then forget about it!  If I get outbid, never mind ... I always put in what I feel would be a realistic price to pay!  Having said that, I have picked up bargains this way ... like a rake of seven Pullmans with correct profile bogies, correct ride height and kadee couplers - for less than £10 a coach!  (I bid more!)

 

Steve S

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Hi all. After some help please. Does anyone know the paint colour of the Night Ferry/Waggon Lits blue. I found a paint matching site for rail colours and it suggested Humbrol 52 but it looks a bit pale to me although admittedly it’s only the first coat. I’ve got myself a 3D printed SR Night Ferry luggage van (not a Fourgon) and the three vans were painted to match the coaches according to Gould’s OPC bible on Southern Passenger Vans,

 

Precision used to produce a suitable match but it’s out of stock and there is no demand for another run. All help gratefully received.

 

I fancied something unusual and different from Olive Green or malachite!

image.jpg

Edited by ndg910
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ndg910 said:

I’ve got myself a 3D printed SR Night Ferry luggage van

 

Hi - can't help with paint, I'm afraid, although I will be very interested in any answers you get! Was wondering if this was a 4mm scale 3D print from rue_d_etropal of this parish, off Shapeways? I was looking at them literally last night, as he has a 4mm print of the type F sleeper available too (albeit sans chassis or bogies).

 

What are your thoughts on the 3D print? Are the joins between planks overemphasised or seem correct? Was the chassis a separate print or included/complete?

 

Cheers

 

Steve S

Edited by SteveyDee68
Corrected name
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ndg910 said:

Hi all. After some help please. Does anyone know the paint colour of the Night Ferry/Waggon Lits blue. I found a paint matching site for rail colours and it suggested Humbrol 52 but it looks a bit pale to me although admittedly it’s only the first coat. I’ve got myself a 3D printed SR Night Ferry luggage van (not a Fourgon) and the three vans were painted to match the coaches according to Gould’s OPC bible on Southern Passenger Vans,

 

Precision used to produce a suitable match but it’s out of stock and there is no demand for another run. All help gratefully received.

 

I fancied something unusual and different from Olive Green or malachite!

image.jpg


A good choice of colour is Humbrol Acrylic 15 Midnight Blue Gloss.  Lovely deep, rich blue that matches the CIWL livery.  Hope this helps.

 

Kind regards

 

Paddy

 

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...