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Little Loco Company - Class 22


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Hi all, As many of you will be aware I was the designer for Little Loco Company but had no financial, business or manageable stake in it - I was only a contractor. We had started to set up another company which my husband and Steve were partners on ( Kitpart ), this never did anything really as you can see by the fact it is Dormant and it will be removed completely at some point soon. I cant answer for Steve not answering communications he has not been in a great place since he become ill and he also has a young son to deal with as well, so contact is some what sporadic with him. I  too have been quite heavily affected by all this having given up my own work and small business to concentrate solely on LLC last year, and have had to suddenly swing everything right round at some cost to reboot that again. That is pretty much all I can put forward for you at this moment, and I know he does intend to get things sorted out but that his personal life has really got in the way of everything. 

 

Nikki 

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After I made a comment on here about honour a couple of weeks ago and got a few points back questioning my point, I sent Steve an e-mail and cancelled my order, asking for my money back under the terms of the deal.

 

I wasn't part of any funding and merely ordered two locos in good faith.

 

To be honest, I was a bit surprised when the money went out of my account straight away.

 

To date, I haven't had so much as a word of response!

 

I'm giving him one more week then the gloves are off!

 

 

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Hi All,

 

Its all very well mentioning that moves are afoot behind the scenes (wink, wink, nudge, nudge stylee), but folk have invested £100s if not £1000s. AND communications from LLC have been - and still are - dire to say the least. Ergo folk are, understably VERY nervous.

 

Whilst confidential and commercially sensitive information may not be for the profane, some sort of communication is required. There has been very little and many only found that the project had stalled third hand - very slipshod.

 

It is little wonder folk are now speculating, and, some speculation is warranted, thus the simple question: 'where is the lump sum, the money and where is my money?" is valid. Such goes hand in glove in such circumstances.

 

People invested acting in good faith.

 

Fingers crossed for best outcome? Grossly unfair for those that have stumped up cash.

 

My family and I know how illness and family life can go haywire, only too well and I have great empathy for those in similar circumstances. But, when in business and using/managing others' money, one has an obligation, a duty of care and just has to step up.

 

ATVB,

 

CME.

 

 

Edited by CME and Bottlewasher
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2 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

My family and I know how illness and family life can go haywire, only too well and I have great empathy for those in similar circumstances. But, when in business and using/managing others' money, one has an obligation, a duty of care and just has to step up.

 

 

I can understand where you are coming from, but it is not always possible. One member of my family went from being fit and active, to being in a coma and subsequently having severe brain damage. Had he had any such obligations and duty of care, they would have gone out the window as he was unable to "step up".

 

Roy

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4 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I can understand where you are coming from, but it is not always possible. One member of my family went from being fit and active, to being in a coma and subsequently having severe brain damage. Had he had any such obligations and duty of care, they would have gone out the window as he was unable to "step up".

 

Roy

Running a business (especially one funded by customers invested money) is a serious business, any event which causes cessation of trading or a major upset due to ill health or,personal tragedy should be handled with care of course, but a business is a business and hiring a commercial lawyer (or even an entrusted friend/family member) to handle communication (if this is impossible by the owner) as part of the continued running of the business seems the obvious answer.

 

Not just go silent.

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8 hours ago, CME and Bottlewasher said:

My family and I know how illness and family life can go haywire, only too well and I have great empathy for those in similar circumstances. But, when in business and using/managing others' money, one has an obligation, a duty of care and just has to step up.

 

Can I just remind everyone that there is a real human being at the end of this - one whom people were lauding not so long ago as being agile and so much better than all those old-fashioned big companies. While I appreciate the frustration of anyone with money sat in the business, telling someone who we know to be unwell to "step up" isn't going to have the required result. 

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On 03/06/2019 at 19:27, Clarky1000 said:

I'm giving him one more week then the gloves are off!

 

Oh, hurray, that'll really sort it all out.

 

48 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Can I just remind everyone that there is a real human being at the end of this - one whom people were lauding not so long ago as being agile and so much better than all those old-fashioned big companies. While I appreciate the frustration of anyone with money sat in the business, telling someone who we know to be unwell to "step up" isn't going to have the required result. 

Well said, Phil.

 

I'm still not worried about the money I paid in. Steve's health is far more important.

 

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The difference in tone between this thread and DJM is marked. In this one, loads of people leap to defence of a proprietor, in the other one, loads of people seem to wish to put the boot into the proprietor. Same result, some people are likely to have lost money, both proprietors  are likely to be struggling emotionally.

 

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2 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Can I just remind everyone that there is a real human being at the end of this - one whom people were lauding not so long ago as being agile and so much better than all those old-fashioned big companies. While I appreciate the frustration of anyone with money sat in the business, telling someone who we know to be unwell to "step up" isn't going to have the required result. 

I think my comments have been 'sound bitten' somewhat and singled out/taken out of context.

 

Please see my previous comments/posts Phil, I have great empathy for Steve and his family. But empathy works both ways and so I also have empathy for the other customers too.

 

I personally know what it is like to be in a very similar situation as Steve is. And effective communication is key. I communicated with all involved, at that time, even if it was painful to do so, as they were my customers/clients.

 

I am still hopeful for a positive outcome for all.

Edited by CME and Bottlewasher
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8 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

I can understand where you are coming from, but it is not always possible. One member of my family went from being fit and active, to being in a coma and subsequently having severe brain damage. Had he had any such obligations and duty of care, they would have gone out the window as he was unable to "step up".

 

Roy

I'm truly sorry to hear that Roy.

 

Our family has been in VERY similar circumstances, many times over too.

 

AFAICT, Steve was well enough to post here and elsewhere and the current state of affairs didn't come as a bolt out of the blue to LLC. So even prior communications weren't always effective/frequent from LLC.

 

I just feel for everyone involved and communication - not every detail admittedly - is key (perhaps by a family member or other representative)?

 

Like others have said, hopefully no news is good news.

 

I hope Steve and his family can get through it all, it was a brave effort, a bridge too far perhaps.

 

Regards,

 

CME.

 

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6 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Can I just remind everyone that there is a real human being at the end of this - one whom people were lauding not so long ago as being agile and so much better than all those old-fashioned big companies. While I appreciate the frustration of anyone with money sat in the business, telling someone who we know to be unwell to "step up" isn't going to have the required result. 

 

Phil - that is the most sensible thing I have seen posted here in a long time. There is no way that Steve would have wanted this situation to arise, from a financial or personal point of view. The guy needs support from the model railway 'community' and hopefully there will be a satisfactory solution in due course for all parties. Whilst I appreciate he money aspect, time is needed to resolve that and in the here and now, the health and well-being of a human being are far more important than toy trains. 

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Agree totally with the well wishes.

 

Re comments around the lack of communication, we’ve been told first hand why and that a buyer is now needed for anything to progress.

 

Until that is resolved, I can’t possibly see how absorbing funds in paying a legal representative to send out bland, placatory updates would help anyone.

 

In the meantime I do hope there is a satisfactory resolution for everyone.

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14 hours ago, 96701 said:

The difference in tone between this thread and DJM is marked. In this one, loads of people leap to defence of a proprietor, in the other one, loads of people seem to wish to put the boot into the proprietor. Same result, some people are likely to have lost money, both proprietors  are likely to be struggling emotionally.

 

From an outside, and perhaps wantonly simplistic, perspective though, the circumstances don't appear to be the same. LLC's demise seems to be (in part) due to unforeseen health issues, while DJM's seems to be (in part) due to poor business management. The major commonality appears to be that a one-man band has no backup.

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1 hour ago, truffy said:

From an outside, and perhaps wantonly simplistic, perspective though, the circumstances don't appear to be the same. LLC's demise seems to be (in part) due to unforeseen health issues, while DJM's seems to be (in part) due to poor business management. The major commonality appears to be that a one-man band has no backup.

The other major common factor looking at the most recent published accounts for both companies on Companies House is a lack of cash.  

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1 hour ago, Earl of Pembroke said:

The other major common factor looking at the most recent published accounts for both companies on Companies House is a lack of cash.  

 

Which maybe shows how difficult for small companies or one-man-bands to compete in this market. This is despite the obvious enthusiasm, commitment and knowledge that both blokes undoubtedly have. Things can just unravel. Competing with the likes of Hornby and Bachmann on a level playing field is almost impossible and let's face it, even with their vast resources and expertise, neither of those have exactly had a bumper few years. It means smaller manufactures have to create a niche, something I think Steve at LLCo had undoubtedly began to carve out. However even with that enthusiam, as ever it is money that makes the world go round...... 

 

Edited by south_tyne
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As I've long said, to succeed in this business requires business acumen, prototype knowledge, knowledge of the model rly industry, knowledge of manufacturing processes, contacts, supply chain/contract management etc etc etc. In other words, a blue leotard with an S on the front, red pants worn outside of said leotard and a red cape!

 

Also tooling costs are a considered purchase/commitment and manufacturing abroad, in a communist country with its own cultural aspects/differences, presents other challenges too.

 

Then there is the current economic climate (with some aspects relative to the 'B' word but mainly due to the Banking boom/same old same old) and according to the business/market life cycle we are due another recession. Bizarrely there isn't a boom as such (only for super elite, certain banks and financial institutions which are causing their own inflation bubble), so that may fend such off a little longer. Many are still bumping along the bottom though with a great deal of stagnation over the past ten years and hobbies take a battering due to disposable income vs cost of living etc. etc...

 

None of the above is easy and can't be taken lightly.

 

Although, thankfully, Minerva, Ixion et al have been successful in RTR.

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On 07/06/2019 at 13:41, Earl of Pembroke said:

The other major common factor looking at the most recent published accounts for both companies on Companies House is a lack of cash.  

In neither of those cases do their micro accounts show their cash position, only their asset positions, creditors due payment within one year, net current liabilities, and what is referred to as 'capital and reserves'.  The latter of course does not mean cash although it could include cash.

 

If you look at Minerva's micro accounts you see a generally similar overall picture although the numbers are much larger and the 'capital and reserves' figure is larger but the difference between it and 'creditors due payment within one year' is still a negative figure, albeit with a smaller deficit ratio than LLC's.  in terms of assessing the health of a company these micro accounts are of comparatively little value and in any case were a snapshot at the time they were prepared so could be considerably different from the picture now.  As it happens DJM's ratio between 'capital and reserves' and 'creditors due payment within one year' was again a deficit but a small one - and no indication at all of cash held or cashflow.

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Companies House cannot be relied on for the overall health and gearing of a company on its own or in isolation. Verified and ratified, Shareholders Reports, Annual Reports, Financial Reports all have to be taken into account, as well as current bank statements etc. Also audits have their place.

Edited by CME and Bottlewasher
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5 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

 

i don’t think there’s any point analysing the accounts personally

 

Totally agree. Ultimately we know the situation: Steve is looking for a buyer for the company; this process is going to take time and, until there is some news for LLCo to share, there is not much we can say. All chatter and discussion is really purely speculation. Let's hope for some positive news in due course, things may be going on behind the scenes as we speak, or then again they may not, but patience is the key. 

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I believe that concerned people, who are unsure, who've perhaps invested £1000s are, thinking out aloud, looking for reassurance and perhaps - no pun intended - letting off steam.

 

Being realistic and positive is probably the best way to go. If the company is a viable going concern then it'll be snapped up.

 

But time will tell.

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On 06/06/2019 at 20:25, Captain Kernow said:

Oh, hurray, that'll really sort it all out.

 

Well said, Phil.

 

I'm still not worried about the money I paid in. Steve's health is far more important.

 

Well, thank you Captain Kernow, for your very constructive comment!

 

Perhaps £1000 for you is an insignificant amount and I do envy you that you are so very wealthy

 

It must be a very nice position to be in............just to sit and pass comment!

 

However, for most of us. its a significant sum of money that has been taken by this fellow  without being able to deliver on his commitments.

 

This is obviously fine for you, but for most of us, it isn't.

 

.............I would appreciate less of the sarcastic comments, if that's okay with you, because nothing that you have said so far will, and I quote you: "sort it all out!"

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Clarky1000 said:

Well, thank you Captain Kernow, for your very constructive comment!

 

Perhaps £1000 for you is an insignificant amount and I do envy you that you are so very wealthy

 

It must be a very nice position to be in............just to sit and pass comment!

 

However, for most of us. its a significant sum of money that has been taken by this fellow  without being able to deliver on his commitments.

 

This is obviously fine for you, but for most of us, it isn't.

 

.............I would appreciate less of the sarcastic comments, if that's okay with you, because nothing that you have said so far will, and I quote you: "sort it all out!"

 

 

I think you should be able to tell that CK was being sarcastic!

Far be it for me to speak on CK's behalf but I suspect that he was suggesting that your "gloves are off" comment is not going to help Steve in any way whatsoever. Surely you would far prefer that Steve's health improves sufficiently that he can either make a decent sale ensuring that your model/s get built OR EVEN return to making them himself (probably rather unlikely).

I appreciate that you have committed a very substantial sum indeed and I do appreciate you feeling angry, frustrated, betrayed at the prospect of losing this but look at it this way.

Steve has already stated what his state of mind and health is (very poor). If you go threating or even taking action against him now, you are only ensuring that you will never see your money again or the model that was promised.

I was also very, very keen on seeing this model, I regarded it as something that was going to be a world leader in high tech model railways of a beloved prototype and I was prepared to sell a LOT of my current stuff to see it happen.

I hadn't gotten around to this before hearing the disappointing news, I know that my situation is as nothing compared to having already put down such sums as you BUT the money you have put down has probably largely been spent on product development?

Is it not better to wait and see what happens, a buyer found or whatever BEFORE resorting presumably to legal action?

It may be wishful thinking here but if a suitable buyer is found and commitments passed on, your money may yet have proved invaluable in the models' development AND you may yet receive such models, albeit from another party.

All the very best,

John.

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Thanks for your reply  John

 

I do appreciate  and accept your view............... to a point!

 

However, I din't think CK is being sarcastic, just naive and a little bit too clever for my liking!

 

LLC is a business, not a charity and as such, it should stand behind what it says on its brief (the basis on which we ordered - and I was not part of the crowd funding), which it clearly is not doing

 

This is the real world!!

 

Further, if the illusive Steve was at least talking to everyone, my view would be different............but he has gone to ground!

 

............and please (before anyone does) don't tell me AGAIN that he is ill!

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