Little Loco Company - Class 22

[The Nth Degree]

Sadly, Little Loco Co has had to withdraw from the Kettering event this weekend. By way of apology, for those who have reserved models and supplies we will offer free postage on your order. For those who had planned to make a purchase we are offering the same apologetic deal. Simply email sales@littleloco.co.uk

For any traders and visitors that do attend, be safe and have fun!

Steve

[bennyboy]

Sadly, Little Loco Co has had to withdraw from the Kettering event this weekend. By way of apology, for those who have reserved models and supplies we will offer free postage on your order. For those who had planned to make a purchase we are offering the same apologetic deal. Simply email sales@littleloco.co.uk

 

For any traders and visitors that do attend, be safe and have fun!

 

Steve

 

In that case perhaps your next model should be a snowplough? 

[TEDDYBEAR D9521]

Sadly, Little Loco Co has had to withdraw from the Kettering event this weekend. By way of apology, for those who have reserved models and supplies we will offer free postage on your order. For those who had planned to make a purchase we are offering the same apologetic deal. Simply email [/size]sales@littleloco.co.ukFor any traders and visitors that do attend, be safe and have fun![/size]Steve[/size]

Hi Steve

 

Was hoping to see you at Kettering, dropped my crowd funding form and cheque in the post waiting on acknowledgement.

 

Cheers Gareth

[norman]

Let's hope so. They are a gnat's whisker away from being approved for production.

 

The website is still being worked on unfortunately, but have a look below if you are interested in funding it.

 

Hi Steve

Any news on the Ruston, should be soon hopefully

Norman

[The Nth Degree]

Hello Norman, I am currently reviewing the situation. Until production issues are resolved I can't progress any further. There are a few niggles to get right first then all the parts can be produced as per spec. I have a UK model builder on hand ready to put them together, although I continually have to ask myself if one person is able to assemble them why a factory of professional assemblers can't do it. By the end of the week the factory will be aware of all issues to resolve, and then it will be down to them, which could be another 2-3 months of work.

 

I'm currently managing the schedules of Class 22 production, so time available for the 48DS is very limited, especially when projects at Kitpart are also nearing production.

[norman]

Hello Norman, I am currently reviewing the situation. Until production issues are resolved I can't progress any further. There are a few niggles to get right first then all the parts can be produced as per spec. I have a UK model builder on hand ready to put them together, although I continually have to ask myself if one person is able to assemble them why a factory of professional assemblers can't do it. By the end of the week the factory will be aware of all issues to resolve, and then it will be down to them, which could be another 2-3 months of work.

 

I'm currently managing the schedules of Class 22 production, so time available for the 48DS is very limited, especially when projects at Kitpart are also nearing production.

Hi Steve

Thanks for the update, "production issues and niggles", does not sound vey positive but more like honesty and disappointment.

Will more money help to resolve the problems faster?

Norman

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi Steve

Thanks for the update, "production issues and niggles", does not sound vey positive but more like honesty and disappointment.

Will more money help to resolve the problems faster?

Norman

I dont think that throwing money at such matters is the answer/solution. China now being the 'factory of the world' is the problem, believe me when I say that doesnt just apply to model railway items. Their QC etc is awful at times, whilst not all Chinese manufacturers can be tarred with the same brush it is an escalating problem.

 

Im sure that Nth Degree is giving it his all though and will come up with a solution, we just have to be patient.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[The Nth Degree]

I wish it were the case Norman, as it'd be relatively easy to solve. The problem is skills and to some extent enthusiasm – or lack of – over here.

 

LLC has made a commitment to UK production (as far as possible) but I had no idea before I made this commitment how much we lost during the 70s-90s. It's coming back though, I can assure you plans are being made. A much more radical idea is required and I'm working with some others to put it in place.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

China also doesnt always play 'cricket' or by the book, one case study in that regard was MG Rover - foolish UK Directors/Mgmt.

 

It is true to say that the UK still manufactures quite a lot, employs lots of folk doing so, BUT most of the businesses are not owned by UK concerns and thus the 'cream' goes off-shore, myopic governments over the past 70 years have allowed the USA, the EU, China, India et al to erode 'UK PLC' either by incompetence or so as to make us conform to conglomeration/power bloc mentality.

 

In addition certain factories, skill sets/tactic knowledge has also been eroded/gone (especially toy/model manufacture), so it will take time to gear up again, but LLC arent the only ones to discover such, but with effort it will come good as times are achanging and folk are starting to wake up from the sleep walking of the past 30 or so years.

 

Its not rocket science, a copy or Machiavelli's THE PRINCE, ignoring the warped dogma of those in power (who dont serve the masses but the super elite '300') and the Adam Smith Institute and re-read Adam Smith's 'The Wealth of Nations' (abv.) and chuck in one or two other books/answers, common sense, determination etc and it is 'doable'.

 

More strength to LLC and those like them

 

ATVB

 

CME

[jjb1970]

If people want to blame anybody for the demise of MG-Rover then they'd be better looking at the notorious Phoenix 4 than the Chinese (and also question why so many politicians and the unions were so enthusiastic about the Phoenix bid and did all they could to torpedo the more realistic Moulton/Alchemy proposal) but I guess it's easier to point fingers at those pesky people from the East.

[The Nth Degree]

This thread is not really for talking about politics or corruption, but those criminals bought a loss-making, broken company for £1. It was lost way before they became involved.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

If people want to blame anybody for the demise of MG-Rover then they'd be better looking at the notorious Phoenix 4 than the Chinese (and also question why so many politicians and the unions were so enthusiastic about the Phoenix bid and did all they could to torpedo the more realistic Moulton/Alchemy proposal) but I guess it's easier to point fingers at those pesky people from the East.

I agree-I said as much-but they fell to the Chinese at the last.

 

The company wasnt entirely lost, until Pheonix got their claws in, Alchemy would have been the better bet? Pheonix were foolish re the Chinese and their 'business ways', that is the point that I was making.

 

Back on topic now.

 

ATVB

 

CME

[brossard]

Getting back to the Cl 15 for a moment.  I wanted to get a driver in mine today.  I did find Pauls explanation of how to access the cab in post # 522 but no pictures.  I did manage to access my cab but it is fraught and not recommended for those with a nervous disposition.  After separating the body and chassis by undoing 4 screws and unplugging the connector there are many and numerous glued plastic tabs holding the body to the footplate.  I had to wrestle with these, breaking 4 exacto blades in the process.  Even so, I couldn't get the bonnets all the way off.  There is something holding the body to the footplate at the buffer beam ends that I couldn't shift.  Anyway I got the bonnets to come partially off so that I could slide the cab out and access the cab thusly:

 

 

I removed the seat and drilled slight aft so that my driver (Montys Models) would fit. .

 

 

 

Happily everything went back together.  I did use CA on the tabs for the short bonnet to make sure it fit snugly.

 

 

Phew!  Glad that's done.  Now I can weather.

 

John

Edited March 25, 2018 by brossard

[brossard]

Spent the morning repairing the fueling pipes that I knocked off when wrestling with the body removal/installation.

 

A question though.  Has anyone programmed their DCC system to operate the marker lights according to train codes, so that you get the code with one button?  As it is, there's a lot of button pressing to get the code you want.  Mines NCE Powercab.

 

John

[The Nth Degree]

That's much more complicated than originally designed! Good to see all the in-cab details I spent ages on though, but are almost invisible when the cab is mounted.

 

The train marker lights should be pre-programmed into the decoder already for independent control. I believe the functions are in the 20s, but without a DCC manual to hand I can't remember which specific functions. I'm not sure a lighting pattern is possible with one button, but I must confess to not being the most knowledgeable on the secrets of DCC. If anyone knows I would be very interested to find out.

[brossard]

Ha Steve, yes, I can't recall seeing a picture of the loco in the state I had it in post #1101.  Given the number of posts I wasn't about to wade through them all.  It is a pity that all that lovely detail can't be seen clearly.  Also, yes, quite complicated, something to think about for the next one perhaps. 

 

I was impressed with the single plug to separate the body from the chassis.  Others could learn from that.

 

I don't know if programming the marker is even possible but DCC is a very versatile system.  We'll see.

 

John

[pauliebanger]

Ha Steve, yes, I can't recall seeing a picture of the loco in the state I had it in post #1101.  Given the number of posts I wasn't about to wade through them all.  It is a pity that all that lovely detail can't be seen clearly.  Also, yes, quite complicated, something to think about for the next one perhaps. 

 

I was impressed with the single plug to separate the body from the chassis.  Others could learn from that.

 

I don't know if programming the marker is even possible but DCC is a very versatile system.  We'll see.

 

John

 

John,

 

Piece of cake with Swiss Mapping which is what this feature was designed to do.

 

The really difficult part is having enough individual FOs connected to the LEDs to be able to illuminate each individual marker at each end. Fortunately, we thought of that when choosing the decoder and designing the PCB and lighting scheme so that everything is in place for anyone to exploit this as you suggest.

 

Here's the outline of what needs to be done to prepare the decoder. This will be a 'once only' task provided you do not reset the decoder. (subject to desired changes or additions).

 

You will first of all need to dedicate an F key to operate 'train codes' lighting.

 

Then, in different Swiss Mapping groups, set the various train code arrays you wish to use. (there are 17 SM groups so you can pre-arrange quite a number of different codes).

 

When you wish to run a particular combination, set that to the Train Codes F key you have reserved.

 

The Train Codes F key will then control on and off for all the LEDs for that specific code. You can even arrange for one code in forward direction and a different code for reverse.

 

If you let me know which F key you wish to use, plus the combinations of markers you would like to illuminate in code arrays and specify in which direction they are to operate, I'll post the requires CVs and values. You don't need to do this all at once, you could start with say 2 or 3 different codes, same in each direction, and add to them later. They are infinitely reassignable so it will be easy to correct any problems or add new codes.

 

You've bought a top quality model with a well thought out PCB and the best decoder available; you might as well make the most of it. LOL.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited March 26, 2018 by pauliebanger

[The Nth Degree]

Thanks Paul!

 

Yes John, the original design had an easily removable cab but something happened between the prototype and the production models that eliminated the functionality of the easily removable cab. The Ruston (when it's FINALLY released!) has a removable roof and the 22 has a screw in cab.

[brossard]

Thanks very much for responding Paul.  Most of the functions are used so not many left apart from 24 - 26 unless I'm reading things wrong.

 

The idea I had was to set train codes as follows (1962 - 1969):

 

Class 2 for Ordinary Passenger train (summers only since the loco can't supply steam heat) - upper center, F23

 

Class 3 for Parcels and Perishables etc. - lower left and lower center, F20 and F21 (Class 4 is the same)

 

Class 5 for part fitted (50%) express freight - upper center and lower left, F23 and F20

 

Class 6 for part fitted (20%) express freight - lower center and lower right, F21 and F22

 

Class 7 for express freight without automatic brake - upper center, lower right, F23 and F22

 

Class 8 for through freight without automatic brake - upper center, lower center, F23 and F21

 

Class 9 for branch or stopping freight etc. - lower right, F22

 

Class 0 for light engine - bottom center, F21

 

It would be nice to have the classes keyed to a single button.

 

I agree Paul, this is the best there is, a lot of functions to deal with though.

 

John

Thanks Paul!

Yes John, the original design had an easily removable cab but something happened between the prototype and the production models that eliminated the functionality of the easily removable cab. The Ruston (when it's FINALLY released!) has a removable roof and the 22 has a screw in cab.

 

Continuous improvement!  Love it.

 

John

Edited March 26, 2018 by brossard

[pauliebanger]

Thanks very much for responding Paul.  Most of the functions are used so not many left apart from 24 - 26 unless I'm reading things wrong.

 

The idea I had was to set train codes as follows (1962 - 1969):

 

Class 2 for Ordinary Passenger train (summers only since the loco can't supply steam heat) - upper center, F23

 

Class 3 for Parcels and Perishables etc. - lower left and lower center, F20 and F21 (Class 4 is the same)

 

Class 5 for part fitted (50%) express freight - upper center and lower left, F23 and F20

 

Class 6 for part fitted (20%) express freight - lower center and lower right, F21 and F22

 

Class 7 for express freight without automatic brake - upper center, lower right, F23 and F22

 

Class 8 for through freight without automatic brake - upper center, lower center, F23 and F21

 

Class 9 for branch or stopping freight etc. - lower right, F22

 

Class 0 for light engine - bottom center, F21

 

It would be nice to have the classes keyed to a single button.

 

I agree Paul, this is the best there is, a lot of functions to deal with though.

 

John

 

Continuous improvement!  Love it.

 

John

 

John,

 

OK, I'll post the CVs as soon as I can. I'll use F key 23 as the operating key for all the combinations (Hint - it's already set up in Swiss Mapping to Ordinary Passenger train code!)

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[brossard]

I look forward to that Paul, many thanks for the interest.  I'm sure this will benefit others as well.  I didn't put Class 1 (Express Passenger) on my list, in case anyone was wondering, because this loco almost never did that.

 

John

[pauliebanger]

I look forward to that Paul, many thanks for the interest.  I'm sure this will benefit others as well.  I didn't put Class 1 (Express Passenger) on my list, in case anyone was wondering, because this loco almost never did that.

 

John

 

John,

 

Sorry about the delay – real life gets in the way of best intentions sometimes.

 

I should have said that whilst possible to do as you require, it might be just as convenient to set the Train Codes up using the individual LEDs as each currently has its own F key.

 

Having given your needs a bit more thought, and noted that there are 3 unused F keys in the project I’ve revised the plan to avoid the need for a CV change to assign the various different codes to a single F key during operations.

 

I’ve also worked with the existing assigned CVs so there will be fewer in the list below that will actually need to be changed (use the existing values)

 

In this scenario I have assigned each Train Code to a separate F key, with the exception of Class 0 which will automatically illuminate when you select F5 – Light Engine.

 

Here are the operating F keys:

 

Class 0 = F5

Class 2 = F20

Class 3 = F21

Class 4 = F21

Class 5 = F22

Class 6 = F23

Class 7 = F24

Class 8 = F25

Class 9 = F26

 

Royal Train = F22 plus F23

 

Here’s the list of CV numbers and values to achieve the above.

 

CV# 430 =   5 

CV# 431 =   0 

CV# 432 =   4 

CV# 433 =   0 

CV# 434 =   3 

CV# 435 =   0 

CV# 436 =   21 

CV# 437 =   0 

CV# 438 =   2 

CV# 439 =   0 

CV# 440 =   1

CV# 441 =   0 

CV# 442 =   21 

CV# 443 =   0 

CV# 444 =   4 

CV# 445 =   0 

CV# 446 =   3 

CV# 447 =   0

CV# 448 =   22 

CV# 449 =   0 

CV# 450 =   2 

CV# 451 =   15 

CV# 452 =   1 

CV# 453 =   14 

CV# 454 =   29 

CV# 455 =   0 

CV# 456 =   7 

CV# 457 =   0 

CV# 458 =   7 

CV# 459 =   0 

CV# 460 =   5 

CV# 461 =   0 

CV# 462 =   4 

CV# 463 =   0

CV# 464 =   3 

CV# 465 =   0 

CV# 466 =   23 

CV# 467 =   0 

CV# 468 =   4 

CV# 469 =   6 

CV# 470 =   3 

CV# 471 =   5 

CV# 472 =   24 

CV# 473 =   0 

CV# 474 =   6 

CV# 475 =   15 

CV# 476 =   5 

CV# 477 =   14 

CV# 478 =   25 

CV# 479 =   0 

CV# 480 =   4 

CV# 481 =   15 

CV# 482 =   3 

CV# 483 =   14 

CV# 484 =   26 

CV# 485 =   0 

CV# 486 =   6 

CV# 487 =   0 

CV# 488 =   5 

CV# 489 =   0 

 

 

If you use your PowerCab you can just enter the whole list in numerical order before leaving programming mode.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[brossard]

Wow, that looks to be a lot of work, very good of you.  I'll have a go.

 

Thanks very much.

 

I'll report back

 

John

[wychcan]

Paul

Brilliant, I've copied those CV's into my Class 15 and it's great to be able to show the differing head codes, something I know I would never have been able to achieve myself, there are just great.. The amount of unused capability of these decoders is amazing.

Thank you

Nigel

[brossard]

I input the codes into my loco today.  They appear to work but only in the forward direction.  I'm a bit concerned that the rear lights might have been damaged in my disassembly exercise.  I did take the body off and had a look round but couldn't see anything amiss.   I'm kicking myself because I didn't confirm light function before doing the CV changes.

 

John

 

Edit:  I did a factory reset but used CV8 = 8.  I seem to have the original light functions but, again, only in the forward direction.  It does point to an issue with the lights themselves but I can't see anything the matter.  It would need to be a single point failure to affect all the lights.  Perhaps a CV setting that I messed up when I did the reset?

 

Edit2:  I took another look and indeed found a broken wire.  I managed to get the short bonnet off with extreme difficulty, breaking a couple of handrails and several more blades in the process.  Wire has been fixed.  I'll put things back together later.

 

Edit3:  I've been working on getting things put right.  One front handrail was made from Evergreen strip and I found a broken cable on one bufferbeam that was replaced with some wire.  I also painted the backs of the headcode discs green.  Footplate was touched up with dark grey paint.

 

I just tested the lights and they work! 

 

Thinking about it the board for the lights isn't actually glued in so it might have been possible to remove it without wrneching off the bonnet.  Here's a pic as a FYI:

 

 

I think it is the post that made the bonnet so difficult to remove.

 

Next to put the bonnet back on.

Edited April 1, 2018 by brossard